Sandhusker
Well-known member
They need to attack the real problem - the cost of health care and health insurance. It's too dang expensive no matter who pays for it.
kolanuraven said:Mike said:[
Insurance is NOT a Constitutional right. The families of those poor people have had every opportunity to work for insurance just like I do.Mike said:This is a much too simplistic view.
If someone has to work to pay the bills and feed the kids at whatever job might be available in his area and his employer can't afford an insurance package for his employees....well then it's tough shite for a lot of people.
Not everyone lives near an area that has well paying jobs nor does everyone have the training nor skills for a higher paying job.
This could be due to many, many reasons that might have been beyond their control. Is that their fault? No.
Mike said:kolanuraven said:Mike said:[
Insurance is NOT a Constitutional right. The families of those poor people have had every opportunity to work for insurance just like I do.Mike said:This is a much too simplistic view.
If someone has to work to pay the bills and feed the kids at whatever job might be available in his area and his employer can't afford an insurance package for his employees....well then it's tough shite for a lot of people.
Not everyone lives near an area that has well paying jobs nor does everyone have the training nor skills for a higher paying job.
This could be due to many, many reasons that might have been beyond their control. Is that their fault? No.
Everyone has had at LEAST the same opportunities as I have to get an education, work, and pay for insurance. Is that my fault? No.
If they can't get a job in their area....MOVE!! If they've got no job they can't afford the gas to move!
If they don't get an education.......TOUGH $HIT! Schools are FREE! Oh yeah...a HS diploma pays top notch...maybe in ' Bama but no where else
Let me tell you something Kola. I grew up so poor that if I didn't wake up with an erection on Christmas morning. I had NOTHING to play with. :lol: You and your little buddy 'Dickie' are no concern of mine.
I say get these bums off their ass and go to work and buy their own damned insurance like I doBetter hurry and get those pills and get in a better mood :wink: !!.
I have a workable plan. Lets make all private insurance portable and instead of giving the tax break to the employer , lets give the tax break to the worker. Here's the really good part. If you register and vote as a democrat, we'll decree that you can be on a socialized health care plan and if you are above the income level you can contribute to the democrat health care plan. If you vote republican you have no right to this socialized democrats insurance and you have no obligation to pay it but your private health care purchase will be portable and the government gives you the tax break for the cost of insurance whether you purchase insurance or elect to go without. Sounds like a win-win situation to me. How do you like it?kolanuraven said:Portable & a tax break would be good but he's got to be able to afford it in the first place. That's the bigger problem. If you've got nothing extra after survival is taken care of....you got " zip" for an insurance payment.
So the insurance ' world' would have to be worked over to allow people to afford the insurance.
I don't know ' the fix' as there are soooo many variables..but something's got to get done.
If you've thousands/millions of people w/o any form of ins...a lot of them are too proud for accept welfare, etc and if a major contagious epidemic breaks out.....man, that's just a train wreck waiting to happen.
Preventive care is the corner stone to whole issue...people need access and affordability in that area.
Red Robin said:I have a workable plan. Lets make all private insurance portable and instead of giving the tax break to the employer , lets give the tax break to the worker. Here's the really good part. If you register and vote as a democrat, we'll decree that you can be on a socialized health care plan and if you are above the income level you can contribute to the democrat health care plan. If you vote republican you have no right to this socialized democrats insurance and you have no obligation to pay it but your private health care purchase will be portable and the government gives you the tax break for the cost of insurance whether you purchase insurance or elect to go without. Sounds like a win-win situation to me. How do you like it?kolanuraven said:Portable & a tax break would be good but he's got to be able to afford it in the first place. That's the bigger problem. If you've got nothing extra after survival is taken care of....you got " zip" for an insurance payment.
So the insurance ' world' would have to be worked over to allow people to afford the insurance.
I don't know ' the fix' as there are soooo many variables..but something's got to get done.
If you've thousands/millions of people w/o any form of ins...a lot of them are too proud for accept welfare, etc and if a major contagious epidemic breaks out.....man, that's just a train wreck waiting to happen.
Preventive care is the corner stone to whole issue...people need access and affordability in that area.
EVERY industrialized nation and most non-industrialized nations disagree. What century are you living in?Mike said:It's a privilege, not a right.
Goodpasture said:EVERY industrialized nation and most non-industrialized nations disagree. What century are you living in?Mike said:It's a privilege, not a right.
Why don't you move somewhere else and we'll all be happy.Goodpasture said:EVERY industrialized nation and most non-industrialized nations disagree. What century are you living in?Mike said:It's a privilege, not a right.
You're a pretty sorry excuse for a human being, aren't you?Red Robin said:Why don't you move somewhere else and we'll all be happy.Goodpasture said:EVERY industrialized nation and most non-industrialized nations disagree. What century are you living in?Mike said:It's a privilege, not a right.
Red Robin said::???: Did I say something wrong? You say we lag behind other countries, if you like them better , move. Don't be trying to change mine. I like this one best.
ff said:Red Robin said::???: Did I say something wrong? You say we lag behind other countries, if you like them better , move. Don't be trying to change mine. I like this one best.
Shocking news for you: Your country is changing. George W. Bush is pushing this country in ways no one would have believed ten years ago. The majority of people in the US now think we need some sort of universal medical care. More and more of them don't bat an eye at the idea that the government will be involved. If you don't like that, maybe you should consider moving to an alternate universe.
You make some valid points Mike. I guess I never looked at the problem hard enough. Anytime a government gets into anythng it gets worse. Reason enough for me to be against it anyway. Odd how some states rights folks that want less federal govt. are all in a heart flutter over socialized healthcare.Mike said:Red Robin said:I have a workable plan. Lets make all private insurance portable and instead of giving the tax break to the employer , lets give the tax break to the worker. Here's the really good part. If you register and vote as a democrat, we'll decree that you can be on a socialized health care plan and if you are above the income level you can contribute to the democrat health care plan. If you vote republican you have no right to this socialized democrats insurance and you have no obligation to pay it but your private health care purchase will be portable and the government gives you the tax break for the cost of insurance whether you purchase insurance or elect to go without. Sounds like a win-win situation to me. How do you like it?kolanuraven said:Portable & a tax break would be good but he's got to be able to afford it in the first place. That's the bigger problem. If you've got nothing extra after survival is taken care of....you got " zip" for an insurance payment.
So the insurance ' world' would have to be worked over to allow people to afford the insurance.
I don't know ' the fix' as there are soooo many variables..but something's got to get done.
If you've thousands/millions of people w/o any form of ins...a lot of them are too proud for accept welfare, etc and if a major contagious epidemic breaks out.....man, that's just a train wreck waiting to happen.
Preventive care is the corner stone to whole issue...people need access and affordability in that area.
Problem with portable health insurance. Most large companies, and many small, are "Self-Insured". Which means that each policy is most likely very different and any "pre-existing" health problems will come into play for most people.
There are many more businesses, states, counties, and cities that are "Self-Insured" than we realize.
For instance, the State of Alabama, Montgomery County, and the City of Montgomery issues a Blue Cross-Blue Shield card to employees but they only pay the company to administer claims and payments out of a fund set up by the different entities from premium inputs and are not paid by BCBS.
When you start mandating who the insurance companies have to cover, you'll open a new can of worms ripe for disaster.
Keep insurance private. It's a privilege, not a right.
The problem comes from government intervention in health care that has driven the prices up.
Work on lowering costs and preventitive care to solve the problems.
Red Robin said:You make some valid points Mike. I guess I never looked at the problem hard enough. Anytime a government gets into anythng it gets worse. Reason enough for me to be against it anyway. Odd how some states rights folks that want less federal govt. are all in a heart flutter over socialized healthcare.Mike said:Red Robin said:I have a workable plan. Lets make all private insurance portable and instead of giving the tax break to the employer , lets give the tax break to the worker. Here's the really good part. If you register and vote as a democrat, we'll decree that you can be on a socialized health care plan and if you are above the income level you can contribute to the democrat health care plan. If you vote republican you have no right to this socialized democrats insurance and you have no obligation to pay it but your private health care purchase will be portable and the government gives you the tax break for the cost of insurance whether you purchase insurance or elect to go without. Sounds like a win-win situation to me. How do you like it?
Problem with portable health insurance. Most large companies, and many small, are "Self-Insured". Which means that each policy is most likely very different and any "pre-existing" health problems will come into play for most people.
There are many more businesses, states, counties, and cities that are "Self-Insured" than we realize.
For instance, the State of Alabama, Montgomery County, and the City of Montgomery issues a Blue Cross-Blue Shield card to employees but they only pay the company to administer claims and payments out of a fund set up by the different entities from premium inputs and are not paid by BCBS.
When you start mandating who the insurance companies have to cover, you'll open a new can of worms ripe for disaster.
Keep insurance private. It's a privilege, not a right.
The problem comes from government intervention in health care that has driven the prices up.
Work on lowering costs and preventitive care to solve the problems.
Red Robin said:You make some valid points Mike. I guess I never looked at the problem hard enough. Anytime a government gets into anythng it gets worse. Reason enough for me to be against it anyway. Odd how some states rights folks that want less federal govt. are all in a heart flutter over socialized healthcare.Mike said:Red Robin said:I have a workable plan. Lets make all private insurance portable and instead of giving the tax break to the employer , lets give the tax break to the worker. Here's the really good part. If you register and vote as a democrat, we'll decree that you can be on a socialized health care plan and if you are above the income level you can contribute to the democrat health care plan. If you vote republican you have no right to this socialized democrats insurance and you have no obligation to pay it but your private health care purchase will be portable and the government gives you the tax break for the cost of insurance whether you purchase insurance or elect to go without. Sounds like a win-win situation to me. How do you like it?
Problem with portable health insurance. Most large companies, and many small, are "Self-Insured". Which means that each policy is most likely very different and any "pre-existing" health problems will come into play for most people.
There are many more businesses, states, counties, and cities that are "Self-Insured" than we realize.
For instance, the State of Alabama, Montgomery County, and the City of Montgomery issues a Blue Cross-Blue Shield card to employees but they only pay the company to administer claims and payments out of a fund set up by the different entities from premium inputs and are not paid by BCBS.
When you start mandating who the insurance companies have to cover, you'll open a new can of worms ripe for disaster.
Keep insurance private. It's a privilege, not a right.
The problem comes from government intervention in health care that has driven the prices up.
Work on lowering costs and preventitive care to solve the problems.