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NO DEAL

Murgen

Well-known member
Sandhusker, the packers offered the bone system of aging in leu of.

I thought they were running this show, why did the Japanese not accept.

With the same packers in Canada calling the shots, and the government not allowing blanket testing, why was it accepted by Japan!

We even have an "ineffective feed ban"
 

Murgen

Well-known member
I believe you will see Japan discontinue testing of all animals within the next couple of years, if not sooner. It will be scaled back as the number of older animals are through the system!

Another interesting point. The feeding of MBM is directly porpotional to the land base available to feed livestock on.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Murgen said:
Sandhusker, the packers offered the bone system of aging in leu of.

I thought they were running this show, why did the Japanese not accept.

With the same packers in Canada calling the shots, and the government not allowing blanket testing, why was it accepted by Japan!

We even have an "ineffective feed ban"

Perhaps the Japanese are giving what they got. Would you buy feed from a salesman who told you that your operation had to be changed to accept his feed, that you didn't know what you were doing, and then threatened you if you didn't take his feed on his terms?
 

Tam

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Tam, "And Sandhusker read all the definitions don't just pick out the words that suit your argument Maintain meaning #5 to support by aid, influence, protection #6 to support by providing means of existance; bear the expence of as in he can't maintain his family"

Aren't you picking out the definition that suits your arguement? I'm just saying there is a common definition of the word that makes perfect sense in the context Leo used it. You're having a hard time accepting that there is a definition that throws water on you trying to make something of Leo's comments that isn't there. I'll send Leo an email letting him know that from now on, he needs to clarify which definition of his words that he is using as there are folks who simply refuse to take a statement as it was intended, but would rather try manufacture a whole different meaning.
.
Prefect sense :roll: when Leo followed up his statement with this Sandhusker
don’t worry we have had these firewalls IN PLACE FOR YEARS , the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls IN PLACE FOR SO MANY YEARS. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue.
You are the one that is manufacturing meanings to support Leo's lieing. If these so called firewall that have been in place for so many years can protect your consumers from your cattle and beef why can't they protect them from anything that might be imported? :?
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Murgen said:
With the same packers in Canada calling the shots, and the government not allowing blanket testing, why was it accepted by Japan!

While I obviously can't argue that we're shipping into Japan, we're shipping just a fraction of what we had pre-BSE. If the tracking system was all it took, why have we not seen exports return to pre-BSE levels?

Fact is, Japan wants more. They want aging, which numerous analysts are saying we simply don't have enough of, and/or they want 100% BSE testing. Australia is shipping aged beef, and they've publicly announced they'll test anything that their customers want tested. And they've stolen all of the US's share of exports, and much of Canada's.

Rod
 

Tam

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Murgen said:
We don't have a Creeksone in Canada, and we're not testing every animal.

We use our CCIA tags to verify age. That is all it takes to ship beef to Japan.

No elaborate bone aging, testing etc. Just a birth date, verified by CCIA.

And the packers are paying for the age verification. All be it not enough, but it covers the cost of the tag and a little bit of labour.

So by your reasoning everyone must follow the leader that the packers set for Canada in order to sell to Japan?

My you are used to being led around.

Does Australia do what Canada does? They are the main exporters to Japan. Tell me again, Canada has how much of the trade with Japan compared to Australia?
I have to ask why are you comparing the amount of trade Australia, a BSE FREE country, is doing to the amount Canada, a country that is just now exporting to Japan again, after finding BSE? :? Our two countries are not exactly in the same risk catagory when it comes to export trade now are we? Why would anyone expect them to have to do the same as we have to to gain back the confience of the Japanese consumer???????:roll:
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Tam said:
Econ101 said:
Murgen said:
We don't have a Creeksone in Canada, and we're not testing every animal.

We use our CCIA tags to verify age. That is all it takes to ship beef to Japan.

No elaborate bone aging, testing etc. Just a birth date, verified by CCIA.

And the packers are paying for the age verification. All be it not enough, but it covers the cost of the tag and a little bit of labour.

So by your reasoning everyone must follow the leader that the packers set for Canada in order to sell to Japan?

My you are used to being led around.

Does Australia do what Canada does? They are the main exporters to Japan. Tell me again, Canada has how much of the trade with Japan compared to Australia?
I have to ask why are you comparing the amount of trade Australia, a BSE FREE country, is doing to the amount Canada, a country that is just now exporting to Japan again, after finding BSE? :? Our two countries are not exactly in the same risk catagory when it comes to export trade now are we? Why would anyone expect them to have to do the same as we have to to gain back the confience of the Japanese consumer???????:roll:

Tam, I honestly don't want to answer any of your posts. Arguing with someone like you is useless and I know it.

Creekstone's beef could have been bse free enough for Japan. Creekstone could test as much as Japan tests. The USDA would not let them do it.

I don't want to argue with you what other people are thinking. You can't get in your head straight what you are thinking---except hate for a foreign group of cattlemen that want to keep your imports out.

You can work yourself in a tizzy and do on mosts posts.

All the arguing in the world that you do isn't going to change a thing.
 

Murgen

Well-known member
While I obviously can't argue that we're shipping into Japan, we're shipping just a fraction of what we had pre-BSE. If the tracking system was all it took, why have we not seen exports return to pre-BSE levels?

Rod, all I've heard also, is that there aren't enough age verified, but that the numbers are increasing quickly. My point is that testing is not required to ship to Japan. Age verification is sufficient, and the least cost option!

There are also only 2 plants in Canada qualified thus far to ship to Japan also.
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Perhaps the Japanese are giving what they got. Would you buy feed from a salesman who told you that your operation had to be changed to accept his feed, that you didn't know what you were doing, and then threatened you if you didn't take his feed on his terms?

Hypocricy will get you every time in the end, it's the same as lying!
 

Murgen

Well-known member
I'm surprised this thread has gone on as long as it has, without one person pointing out that it was bone in, that ceased all shipments to Japan from the US, not a lack of testing, not age verification.

It was a screw-up by one of those damn packers, who are the ones that write the rules and have control! Did the packers forget to tell the Japanese that "a little bone is okay"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't even think it was one of the packers who hold all the market power!
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Murgen said:
While I obviously can't argue that we're shipping into Japan, we're shipping just a fraction of what we had pre-BSE. If the tracking system was all it took, why have we not seen exports return to pre-BSE levels?

Rod, all I've heard also, is that there aren't enough age verified, but that the numbers are increasing quickly. My point is that testing is not required to ship to Japan. Age verification is sufficient, and the least cost option!

I understand, but lets just look at it from a marketting perspective and compare against what our competitors are doing.

I hear the arguement that all it takes is M-ID to ship to Japan (not necessarily from you, but from others). That logic is flawed, as if that were true, our exports should have returned to pre-BSE levels.

Why haven't they returned to pre-BSE levels? Because we are now a BSE country. No matter how low a risk we are, we are still a BSE country.

Now Australia is not a BSE country. Obviously that has a great deal to do with their current export levels. HOWEVER, they also have a traceback system AND the willingness to BSE test anything that their customers want tested. They're willing to cater to the demands of their customers to make the sale.

Canada (and the US) are BSE countries. That means, in one not so insignificant way, that our beef is inferior to another countries. Now you and I both know that our beef, quality and taste wise, will blow away much of the Australian stuff. But to Japan, safety is paramount and quality takes second place. We are considered inferior when it comes to safety. That means that we have to market even harder. We can't afford to let another country have our imports, and we should be doing everything we can to take those imports back.

I find it frustrating that more isn't being done. The CCA and CFIA are against voluntary BSE testing, which is complete and utter nonsense. Hell, the CCA couldn't even give me a good reason to not allow voluntary testing. Just that they were against it. With rocket scientist thought like that, we will be forever locked into the US as our only real export customer.

Just step for one moment and take a long thought on it. We have better quality beef. So we age verify it AND we BSE test it, or at the very least, allow voluntary BSE testing. Now we have equalled Australia's safety AND we have a better quality product.

By the way, the numbers of age verified beef is on the rise, unfortunately, the smaller business concerns are being outbid on it. The big guys are buying it and shipping it to the US. We're losing healthy premiums by shipping into the US.

Rod
 

Murgen

Well-known member
Rod, as I understand it, the plants that are approved to ship to Japan, have to kill age verified animals only, for that day. If they don't have enough verified for their capacity for that day, then they won't kill for Japan.

And yes, there is a hell of alot of marketing to do, to displace Australian product. That marketing is made even tougher when you have an org. questioning the safety of beef from any BSE country.

Testing would help marketing efforts, but it is not a requirement.

I believe this whole thing would have died off sooner, shipments would have been well on their way to recovery, if we did not have court cases, mud-slinging etc. that have only helped to bring awareness to a negelible risk, that could have been dealt with behind closed doors.

But that would have taken some co-operation between Industry segments, something that isn't going to happen for a long time.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
All we needed to do was basic business; give the customer what they wanted. It's that flipping simple. That's all that Australia is doing.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Murgen said:
Testing would help marketing efforts, but it is not a requirement.

I guess it depends on your point of view. No, its not an absolute requirement, by word of Japanese government. But it is a substantial hold-up to opening up more trade. In my mind, that makes it a requirement.

One thing that the whole BSE debacle should have taught us, and unfortunately, the lesson seems to be sinking into our producer organizations very slowly, is that we need more export markets than the US.

Rod
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Big Muddy rancher said:
Rod in one breath you say Australia is BSE FREE and the next you say they are testing for export. What is it? Are they testing for export?

BMR, you might want to re-read what I wrote. I didn't say that Australia IS BSE testing, but they HAVE publicly stated that if any customer wants their beef BSE tested, they'd be willing to do so. Thats a big difference.

Pretty masterful stroke of marketing, in my opinion. The chances of finding BSE in Australia are slim, and even if they do, they've already got all the necessary safeguards in place to combat the fallout. Perhaps we should see about importing some of their producer reps and government officials, as they certainly seem to comprehend what it takes to sell beef in today's marketplace.

Rod
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Murgen,

I see you are getting the full dose of the "BWAME DA PACKAH" logic of Conman, Sandbag, and Rod.

IT'S SO DAMN OBVIOUS.

IF JAPAN WANTED 100% BSE TESTED BEEF, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ACCEPTED NON BSE TESTED BEEF.

Why does that heavy dose of logic escape the mind of a packer blamer? Because they have gone down the same road for so long that they simply can't turn back. Just like with "M"COOL, it doesn't matter that 95% of the beef at the retail beef counter is already "US BEEF", it doesn't matter that consumers who want source verification can already buy source verified branded beef products, THE LEMMINGS KEEP MARCHING TOWARDS THE CLIFF.


Conman: "So by your reasoning everyone must follow the leader that the packers set for Canada in order to sell to Japan?"

IF JAPAN WAS NOT DEMANDING SOURCE VERIFICATION, THE PACKERS WOULD NOT BE DEMANDING IT.

Leave it to an idiot like Conman to blame the packers for Japan's request.


These guys are pissed off because Japan isn't demanding WHAT THEY SAY THEY SHOULD BE DEMANDING.

Know why? Because Japan is smart enough to know that the bse tests that have been approved will not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age. THEY KNOW THAT. Yet Sandbag, Conman, and Rod keep insisting that they know what is best for Japan. LOL!

What a pathetic bunch!



~SH~
 

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