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Notable quote

Red Robin

Well-known member
Lenin, the founder of the first Communist state, put it simply: "First we will take Eastern Europe, then the masses of Asia. We will encircle the last bastion of capitalism, the United States of America. We will not need to fight. It will fall as a ripe fruit into our hands." And, "We must practice coexistence with other nations, until we are strong enough to take over by means of world revolution.... We are not pacifists. Conflict is inevitable. Great political questions can be solved only through violence.... It is inconceivable that Communism and capitalism can exist side by side. Inevitably one must perish.''
 

Steve

Well-known member
TSR
this administration's trade policies with China?

This administration had little to do with the current trade policy with China.. It was in fact Clinton who "normalized" trade with China...

but every step China takes towards capitalism is a step away from communism...
 

TSR

Well-known member
Steve said:
TSR
this administration's trade policies with China?

This administration had little to do with the current trade policy with China.. It was in fact Clinton who "normalized" trade with China...

but every step China takes towards capitalism is a step away from com
munism...

But this administration has turned its back more on the safety of the
american citizen than others in the past to maintain those good relations with China and China has flourished under this administration more than any other.
I also am not so sure that China thinks its working toward being a country that believes in capitalism. Controlled capitalism to promote communism might also be in the back of their minds. I don't believe anyone knows for sure unless you are the Chinese leaders.
 

Mike

Well-known member
China has flourished under this administration more than any other.

Oh yea? China is having it's own woes as we speak. Inflation is rampant, and unemployment is through the roof.
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Experts Warn Inflation in China Could Lead to Social Unrest
By Naomi Martig
Hong Kong
22 February 2008




With China's consumer inflation rate rising to an 11-year high in January, analysts are warning that further increases in food prices could cause social unrest. They also say that if China decides to cut back on its food exports, inflation and unrest could spill over into other parts of the Asia Pacific region. Naomi Martig reports from VOA's Asia News Center in Hong Kong.


A bangbangjun(porter)carries heavy parcels for a customer on a street in Chongqing, 22 Feb 2008
Most economists are predicting that China's inflation rate, which was 7.1 percent in January, will continue to increase in the near term.

The issue is especially sensitive for policymakers in Beijing, because a major component of the overall inflation rate is a jump of more than 18 percent in food prices over the past year. The cost of pork, a staple food for Chinese people, is up more than 58 percent compared to a year ago.

Severe weather in southern China during the Chinese New Year period, which crippled the country's transport system and destroyed crops in some regions, contributed to the rise in food prices.

Economists say China's inflation rate is not out of control. But they are concerned about the potential for social unrest should prices continue to increase.

Mark Thirlwell is the director of the International Economy Program at the Lowy Institute for International Policy in Sydney. He says food prices are a sensitive issue in developing countries because food is such a large part of expenditures by poorer people.

Thirlwell says in China, food is about a third of the consumption basket for the general population, and for those Chinese in the lower income bracket, about half.

"Analysts or observers from outside look back at previous cases when you've had very high food price inflation," he noted, " and I guess the classic case that people look back to is 1988, and we also see some in the mid 1990's. And then, there were social consequences, there were protests, there were disturbances."

Chinese inflation rates in 1988 were about 19 percent, and in 1994, 24 percent.

There are concerns that this kind of inflation could spill over into neighboring countries. Analysts say there is a danger that continued rises might prompt Chinese food exporters to raise their prices, which could lead to inflation in other countries in the region.

Mark Thirlwell says there is also a danger that China could cut back on its food exports, which could have a similar effect.

"You stop things going out, that obviously has the reverse effect on global markets. If you start to choke off supplies of food into the marketplace, then that puts up food pressure on prices for everyone else," he said.

Thirlwell says food inflation could also lead to social instability in other countries.

China has become a major factor in global food exports. In 2006, for example, the country accounted for around 12 percent of world trade in fruits and vegetables.


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Steve

Well-known member
TSR
But this administration has turned its back more on the safety of the American citizen than others in the past to maintain those good relations with China and China has flourished under this administration more than any other.

to believe that you have to ignore facts.. Clinton eliminated the annual trade review by normalizing trade with China..

President Clinton closed years of political and economic debate Tuesday, and sealed a major achievement of his administration by signing a bill extending permanent, normal trade status to China.

"Today we take a major step toward China's entry into the World Trade Organization and a major step toward answering some of the central challenges of this new century," Clinton said

The measure is considered the most important U.S. trade legislation since passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1993. But it faced a long campaign of opposition from labor, human rights and conservative groups who wanted to retain the annual review of trade relations with China.

It will open China's mammoth market to U.S. businesses and pave the way for China's entry into the World Trade Organization --it also ends a 20-year-old U.S. ritual of annually reviewing China's trade status.

makes a person wonder how many illegal campaign donations Clinton took from the Chinese, just to avoid annual review of trade policies with China..
 

Steve

Well-known member
But conservative critics argued that such an agreement would reward a repressive communist state, undermine the country's labor and environmental protections and cost jobs for U.S. workers.

Clinton and other supporters argued that bringing China into the global trade regime will help make Beijing a more responsible and accountable member of the world community.

we now know how right those critics were...

and only time will tell if Clinton's rational was correct... lets hope so as they now have a large stack of money... - minus a few million they bribed the Clintons with...
 

TSR

Well-known member
Steve said:
TSR
But this administration has turned its back more on the safety of the American citizen than others in the past to maintain those good relations with China and China has flourished under this administration more than any other.

to believe that you have to ignore facts.. Clinton eliminated the annual trade review by normalizing trade with China..

President Clinton closed years of political and economic debate Tuesday, and sealed a major achievement of his administration by signing a bill extending permanent, normal trade status to China.

"Today we take a major step toward China's entry into the World Trade Organization and a major step toward answering some of the central challenges of this new century," Clinton said

The measure is considered the most important U.S. trade legislation since passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1993. But it faced a long campaign of opposition from labor, human rights and conservative groups who wanted to retain the annual review of trade relations with China.

It will open China's mammoth market to U.S. businesses and pave the way for China's entry into the World Trade Organization --it also ends a 20-year-old U.S. ritual of annually reviewing China's trade status.

makes a person wonder how many illegal campaign donations Clinton took from the Chinese, just to avoid annual review of trade policies with China..

Steve all one has to do is look at China's economic growth through the Clinton yrs and compare them to its growth during the Bush yrs. (Wikipedia) But my main point was and still is that China has exported many dangerous goods into the United States under this administrations watch with little or no consequences. BTW I don't remember Clinton having a majority of Democrats in Congress during his tenure. Not that I think things might have been different if he had but bills are introduced in Congress and passed and THEN signed by the president i believe. Also the Republicans were powerless to change things under this administration with their domination of Congress for so many yrs???? I mean couldn't the annual review have been renewed??
 

Steve

Well-known member
TSR
I mean couldn't the annual review have been renewed??

NO.. it is against our trade policy to annually review countries that we grant Normal Permanent trade with... I guess that is why they throw in the word permanent.

Up until Clinton signed the permanent trade agreement with China.. our trade with China had to be reviewed and approved each year...

had the annual review not been eliminated.. we could easily respond by not renewing the next years agreement until China proved they were in compliance..

so once the regulatory compliance was no longer required.. China opened up the floodgates...

Maybe I'll have to give an example..

If you had a really good fence...one that kept the Chinese bulls out of your heifers.. and your boss Clinton tore down the fence.. would you or any one else be able to stop the Bulls?

well the annual reviews were our fence against the Chinese...

now were stuck with a bunch of crappy little yellow calves....running all over the place..
 

Cal

Well-known member
Steve said:
TSR
I mean couldn't the annual review have been renewed??

NO.. it is against our trade policy to annually review countries that we grant Normal Permanent trade with... I guess that is why they throw in the word permanent.

Up until Clinton signed the permanent trade agreement with China.. our trade with China had to be reviewed and approved each year...

had the annual review not been eliminated.. we could easily respond by not renewing the next years agreement until China proved they were in compliance..

so once the regulatory compliance was no longer required.. China opened up the floodgates...

Maybe I'll have to give an example..

If you had a really good fence...one that kept the Chinese bulls out of your heifers.. and your boss Clinton tore down the fence.. would you or any one else be able to stop the Bulls?

well the annual reviews were our fence against the Chinese...

now were stuck with a bunch of crappy little yellow calves....running all over the place..
And the Chinese helped the Clintons a great deal as well.
 

TSR

Well-known member
Steve said:
TSR
But this administration has turned its back more on the safety of the American citizen than others in the past to maintain those good relations with China and China has flourished under this administration more than any other.

to believe that you have to ignore facts.. Clinton eliminated the annual trade review by normalizing trade with China..

President Clinton closed years of political and economic debate Tuesday, and sealed a major achievement of his administration by signing a bill extending permanent, normal trade status to China.

"Today we take a major step toward China's entry into the World Trade Organization and a major step toward answering some of the central challenges of this new century," Clinton said

The measure is considered the most important U.S. trade legislation since passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1993. But it faced a long campaign of opposition from labor, human rights and conservative groups who wanted to retain the annual review of trade relations with China.

It will open China's mammoth market to U.S. businesses and pave the way for China's entry into the World Trade Organization --it also ends a 20-year-old U.S. ritual of annually reviewing China's trade status.

makes a person wonder how many illegal campaign donations Clinton took from the Chinese, just to avoid annual review of trade policies with China..

One more thing and I will quit beating this horse. I don't think you could limit the donations received to just the Clintons, Congress would have definitely played a part also. And I might add no law or rule pertaining to international trade should ever be made to be permanent, I think we can all agree on that idea.
 

Steve

Well-known member
TSR
One more thing and I will quit beating this horse. I don't think you could limit the donations received to just the Clintons, Congress would have definitely played a part also. And I might add no law or rule pertaining to international trade should ever be made to be permanent, I think we can all agree on that idea.

any trade agreement that ties the hand of our Lawmakers to enforce our own laws is wrong.. when they infringe on our sovereignty should not be signed.. be it Nafta,.. WTO,.. Kyoto,.. or any other treaty.. or trade agreement..

and I do agree that Congress played a part in this when they handed over their authority in the fast track legislation.. which allowed these trade agreements to be signed in violation of our Constitution..

The Fast track negotiating authority (also called Trade Promotion Authority, TPA) for trade agreements is the authority of the President of the United States to negotiate agreements that the Congress can approve or disapprove but cannot amend or filibuster. Fast-track negotiating authority is granted to the president by Congress. It was in effect pursuant to the Trade Act of 1974 from 1975 to 1994 and was restored in 2002 by the Trade Act of 2002. It expired at midnight on July 1, 2007.
 

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