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Obama: 'Judge me by the people who surround me'

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
During the 2008 Presidential campaign Barack Obama told audiences, 'Judge me by the people with whom I surround myself.'

OK, we will.

And that is precisely the problem with Obama.

In order to understand Barack Obama one must look beyond the official, Congressional-approved Cabinet choices to the truckload of unofficial 'czars,' 'special advisor's,' and 'officers' he has chosen to come to the White House to have direct access to him.

If one uses the criterion Obama laid out by which to judge his character, political ideology, and plans for the country, we can only conclude that the President is a far-Left extremist who disdains capitalism and free commerce, free speech in the open marketplace of ideas, Caucasian people who have accumulated wealth, and any dissent from the concepts propounded by his 'regime.'

How do we know this? Look at his czars, special advisers, and officers. These are the ones closest to Obama.

John Holdren, science czar, advocates for population control using the most extreme measures, such as mandating the number of children Americans can have. He is also a proponent of 'de-developing' the United States, sending its agricultural practices and technology back to the 19th century. Holdren has also suggested that infants and chronically ill elderly do not fit his definition of 'human,' and therefore can be expendable.

Cass Sunstein, regulatory czar and Harvard law professor, believes that animals should have the right to legal representation. If you try to get rid of rats in your home, a 'concerned citizen' could bring a lawsuit, with the rat as the plaintiff, to sue you for endangering a species. He also believes that if bloggers post something that turns out to be false, they should be prosecuted. In short, Sunstein is a Leftwing moonbat with Fascist leanings. Remember, Obama said to judge him by the people around him.

Ezekiel Emanuel, healthcare czar, believes in using cost-benefit and comparative-benefit analysis to allocate healthcare resources. This means the fewer years you have left to live, the less cost-effective it is to treat you. Thus, most of those resources should be diverted from the elderly to younger people. This is the 'rationing' portion of ObamaCare that many of us have warned about. And this will be done even without the so-called 'public option,' which is not really what the debate about government control of healthcare is about in the first place. Even without the public option, the provision for rationing is inherent in the provisions of the bill, thanks to advisers such as Emanuel.

Van Jones, green jobs czar, is perhaps the most extremist of the extreme in the entire lot. As a self-avowed, self-identified Communist, Jones abhors liberty, the Constitution, the American way of life, and seeks to change it from top to bottom. Here is more on Van Jones.

Mark Loyd, FCC 'diversity czar,' supports Communist Hugo Chavez in Venezuela and believes that what Chavez did to squelch free speech in the media and seize the means of communication is a good model for the United States. His plan is to silence conservative talk radio by forcing ownership to change hands to minorities and by implementing a fee structure for licensing that will put most private broadcasters out of business. At that point, Loyd would make PBS, or NPR on the radio, the most powerful forces in broadcasting--controlled by the government, of course.

Due to the areas over which they have jurisdiction, the above-named 'special advisers' to Obama are the key players. Jobs, communication, healthcare, agriculture, population control--all of these amount to a major shift in the way America has operated as a Free Republic for over 200 years.

Questions for consideration: Given these czars and special advisers who have offices in the White House with easy access to the President, how, then, should we judge Barack Obama's ideas and plans for the country, just as he asked us to do? Why is a Communist operating out of the White House as one of Obama's closet advisers? What can Americans reasonably expect over the next few years if the policies espoused by Loyd, Jones, Sunstein, Emanuel, and Holdren are implemented?

http://www.examiner.com/x-3704-Columbia-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m9d3-Obama-Judge-me-by-the-people-who-surround-me#
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
When attending Columbia University as an Indonesian foreign student, Obama was one of eight students recruited by Brzezinski to study "Sovietology". By this time, Brzezinski had worked his way up the ladder in the CIA to become one of its' top officers.

"Brzezinski, a CIA expert on the Soviet Union, teaches international relations and is the head of the Institute for Communist Affairs at Columbia."

Video (speech Sept. 2008): "It is now infinitely easier to kill a million people than it is to control a million people" - Zbigniew Brzezinski (Obama's top foreign policy advisor)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxH0pvTvq8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2F216.221.102.26%2Fblogger%2Fpost%2FVideo-(speech-Sept-2008)-It-is-now-infinitely-easier-to-kill-a-million-people-than-it-is-to-c&feature=player_embedded#t=406
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
I've tried to point this out a dozen times - but noooo, my dislike for the man has to be racism... :roll:


If anybody would of taken the time to vet the guy instead of chugging the kool-aid, they would of seen this coming.
 

jcummins

Well-known member
I dislike him too. But that's not now the issue. What is....is how do we stop the destroying of our country.

We cannot take 3+ years of this. It is now VERY obvious, that he is a very FAR left radical. This is the INTENTIONAL destruction of our country as we know it..
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
jcummins said:
I dislike him too. But that's not now the issue. What is....is how do we stop the destroying of our country.

We cannot take 3+ years of this. It is now VERY obvious, that he is a very FAR left radical. This is the INTENTIONAL destruction of our country as we know it..

Will someone tell me what rights they have lost- that hadn't already been taken away :???:
So far- all I've seen is his return of some rights- like the rule of habeas corpus for all- and the following of the law for wiretaps....

But I keep hearing all these rights lost- but I don't what they are...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Naked Emperor News strikes again by finding revealing clips of an interview conducted by “Uprising Radio” with Van Jones seventeen months ago. Jones, the green jobs czar, explains how his allies want to conduct a revolution on the sly. Call it radical incrementalism, call it an offshoot of the Alinksy method, but it certainly seems that Jones is easily the most radical White House aide in many, many years:

Actually, stoking crises for political action falls more under the Cloward-Piven tactic, but why quibble? I wonder if some of the civil-rights pioneers might be surprised to hear Jones equating the green movement with the freedom of people and the end of political and economic discrimination based on color. I guess green is a color, but unless we’re talking about Martians or the Irish, it’s a ridiculous analogy.

A truly economic argument for “green jobs” would show how the transfer to a so-called green economy would outperform what we have at the moment. Since experience proves that argument a loser, Jones and his allies want to cast the effort as a new revolution. It sounds a lot like old revolutions, and one that won’t free people like the civil-rights movement, but one that will put people in thrall to an autocracy that dictates economic activity and strips property rights from its citizens. We saw that often enough in the 20th century to know how it turns out — badly.

video can also be seen at

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/03/video-van-jones-and-revolution/
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
jcummins said:
I dislike him too. But that's not now the issue. What is....is how do we stop the destroying of our country.

We cannot take 3+ years of this. It is now VERY obvious, that he is a very FAR left radical. This is the INTENTIONAL destruction of our country as we know it..

Will someone tell me what rights they have lost- that hadn't already been taken away :???:
So far- all I've seen is his return of some rights- like the rule of habeas corpus for all- and the following of the law for wiretaps....

But I keep hearing all these rights lost- but I don't what they are...
I can't see where I lost any rights under Bush, but I do know the country wasn't attacked again...and it wasn't because the borders were sealed off. So, the terrorist that wanted to attack the USA must have been doing something else...like getting killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Tell me OT, does the USA need to be fundamentally changed as Obama has said and the people around him have said? Wouldn't that mean changing the Constitution or doing away with the Constitution? Would you think that you have lost any rights if that happened? Give Obama time, you will lose some rights...just ask the CEO of GM!!!!!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
RobertMac said:
Oldtimer said:
jcummins said:
I dislike him too. But that's not now the issue. What is....is how do we stop the destroying of our country.

We cannot take 3+ years of this. It is now VERY obvious, that he is a very FAR left radical. This is the INTENTIONAL destruction of our country as we know it..

Will someone tell me what rights they have lost- that hadn't already been taken away :???:
So far- all I've seen is his return of some rights- like the rule of habeas corpus for all- and the following of the law for wiretaps....

But I keep hearing all these rights lost- but I don't what they are...
I can't see where I lost any rights under Bush, but I do know the country wasn't attacked again...and it wasn't because the borders were sealed off. So, the terrorist that wanted to attack the USA must have been doing something else...like getting killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Tell me OT, does the USA need to be fundamentally changed as Obama has said and the people around him have said? Wouldn't that mean changing the Constitution or doing away with the Constitution? Would you think that you have lost any rights if that happened? Give Obama time, you will lose some rights...just ask the CEO of GM!!!!!!

Now you're blaming the Bush Bust and bankruptcy of GM on Obama :???: :roll:

Yep- thats all I hear is "he's going to" or "they will"-- but still seen no evidence of anything being done...Definitely nothing like all the rights and law violations we saw under GW.....

Is Obama perfect- nope- but the only ones I know that are is God and Hypocrit (in his mind)....

Robert Mac--I think its so interesting- in you'alls hatred of Obama- I posted several posts on Bull Sessions- where Obama's new head of GIPSA and P & S A is saying he will do exactly what so many of you wanted Bush's USDA to do-challenge the Packer Mafia monopoly (instead of the Bush era JoAnn Waterfields "shuffle papers and make it look like you're doing something")- but none of you will recognize it or credit it now that he says he'll do it... :roll: And in this hatred that seems to exist toward this administration- next you'll be condemning him for his willingness to enforce these laws-- and falling right into the trap Big Industry is spending a fortune to promote- and by that supporting their ending of the family farm....
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Okay, this might be a long post, but some worthwhile connections in it.


Who's "we"?

JARRETT:. You guys know Van Jones? [Applause. Moderator injects: "This is his house apparently."]

JARRETT: Oooh. Van Jones, alright! So, Van Jones. We were so delighted to be able to recruit him into the White House. We were watching him, uh, really, he’s not that old, for as long as he’s been active out in Oakland. And all the creative ideas he has. And so now, we have captured that. And we have all that energy in the White House.

now we all know who Valerie Jarrett is right? Top Advisor to Obama, but how far back does their relationship go?



It is now well established that Barack Obama was linked to the Hawaiian Communist Party network through his boyhood/teenage mentor Frank Marshall Davis.

It is also well known that after moving to Chicago, Obama linked up with the local communist networks.

Manning Marable, a leader of the Communist Party offshoot Committees of Correspondence for Democracy&Socialism claims that Obama "understands what socialism is. A lot of the people working with him are, indeed, socialists with backgrounds in the Communist Party or as independent Marxists. There are a lot of people like that in Chicago who have worked with him for years..."

This leads to two key questions.

A Were the Hawaii and Chicago networks connected?

B Did Obama's connection to Frank Marshall Davis in any way influence his progress up the Chicago political ladder?

If the answer is yes to both, there are significant implications.

It means that that the Communist Party USA was watching Obama from an early age and was willing to help his political career.

Frank Marshall Davis was active in the Chicago Communist Party until he moved to Hawaii in late 1948.

I speculated in this post that Davis may have known left wing journalist Vernon Jarrett in post war Chicago. A connection would be significant because the Jarrett family has played a very important role in Obama's rise to power.

Both Jarrett and Davis worked in the communist dominated South Side Community Art Center and on the communist influenced Chicago Defender newspaper, in late 1940s Chicago.

I have since found conclusive evidence that Davis and Jarrett not only knew each other, but worked together in another Communist Party dominated organisation-The Citizen's Committee to Aid Packing House Workers.

"organized to support the united packing-House workers of America C.I.O. now on strike"

brown.jpg


The letter above is dated April 12, 1948. Note that CIO (Congress of Industrial Organizations) was at the time a communist controlled labor federation.

To the left is a partial list of Citizen's Committee to Aid Packing House Workers officials.

Note the names Oscar C. Brown (Treasurer) and Louise T. Patterson (Assistant Treasurer), F.M. Davis and Vernon Jarrett.

sidneyjones.jpg


That the Citizen's Committee was communist influenced is beyond doubt. Louise T Patterson was the wife of Illinois Communist Party vice-chairman and attorney William Patterson and a prominent Party member in her own right. Louise Patterson was still a leader of the Illinois Communist Party well into the 1970s.

Further down the page was list of the organization's "Food and groceries committee". Named among them was Ishmael Flory, a leader of the Illinois Communist Party from the late 1930s until his death in 2004.

Incidentally, one of the eulogists at Flory's funeral was Timuel Black, a well known member of Committees of Correspondence for Democracy&Socialism and a long time friend and political supporter of Barack Obama.

Oscar C Brown-later a famous jazz musician under the name Oscar Brown jnr, was also at the time a Communist Party member. he joined in 1946 and was expelled around 1954.

In 1948 Vernon Jarrett left his job as journalist at the Chicago Defender to start a black oriented radio show "Negro Newsfront" with Oscar Brown.

Jarrett was clearly on the far left and almost certainly, like his colleague Frank Marshall Davis, a covert member of the Communist Party.

Jarrett worked hard promoting socialist causes including the communist controlled Progressive Party.


Vernon Jarrett went on to become the Chicago Tribune's first black syndicated columnist and was a founder of the National Association of Black Journalists.

According to a Washington Post obituary May 25th 2004

Mr. Jarrett continually shone a light on African American history and pertinent issues in Chicago and throughout the country. He stoked the political embers in Chicago that led to the 1983 election of the city's first African American mayor, Harold Washington.

Vernon Jarrett was a key influence in Washington's decision to run for the Chicago mayoralty and remained a key supporter through his four year tenure.

Harold Washington defeated the Daley machine to win the mayoralty backed by a coalition led by Chicago's Communist Party and the local branch of Democratic Socialists of America (DSA).

DSA member and socialist historian Paul Buhle, wrote in a 1992 article for the Encyclopedia of the American Left;

Communists also gained from long-standing political contacts in the black community. Victories of black mayoral and congressional candidates with decades — old ties to the CP — a short list would include Coleman Young and George Crocket in Detroit, Gus Newport in Berkeley, and somewhat more ambiguously, Harold Washington in Chicago

Washington was actively involved in Communist Party fronts such as the US Peace Council and the Chicago Committee on Southern Africa, right up to winning the mayoralty-with Party support. After victory he stacked his administration full of communists, socialists and sympathisers to create one of the most far left administrations in US history-cut short only by his pre-mature death after four years in office.


I quote from remarks by Illinois Communist Party organiser John Bachtell to a "Special District Meeting on African American Equality and Building the Communist Party and Young Communist League, Chicago", IL September 30, 2007.

The legacy of Harold Washington’s election and his administration is in the collective consciousness not only of the African American community, but the entire city. Many of his democratizing achievements endure 20 years later.

The historic election of Washington was the culmination of many years of struggle. It reflected a high degree of unity of the African American community and the alliance with a section of labor, the Latino community and progressive minded whites. This legacy of political independence also endures...

This was also reflected in the historic election of Barack Obama. Our Party actively supported Obama during the primary election. Once again Obama’s campaign reflected the electoral voting unity of the African American community, but also the alliances built with several key trade unions, and forces in the Latino and white communities.

It also reflected a breakthrough among white voters. In the primary, Obama won 35% of the white vote and 7 north side wards, in a crowded field. During the general election he won every ward in the city and all the collar counties. This appeal has continued in his presidential run.

Barack Obama has stated that Harold Washington's victory in 1983 was the spur that made him leave New York to move to Chicago.

Vernon Jarrett was also a fan of Barack Obama. He watched his career from its early stages and became an ardent supporter.

In 1992 Obama worked for the ACORN offshoot, Project Vote to register black voters in aid of the Senate Campaign of Carol Moseley Braun. Unsurprisingly Moseley Braun also had strong Communist Party ties and was Harold Washington's legislative floor leader.

Obama helped Moseley Braun win her Senate seat, then took it over himself in 2004-backed of course by the same communist/socialist alliance that had elected his political predecessors Harold Washington and Carol Moseley Braun.

Commenting on the 1992 race, Vernon Jarrett wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times of August 11th 1992;

Good news! Good news! Project Vote, a collectivity of 10 church-based community organizations dedicated to black voter registration, is off and running. Project Vote is increasing its rolls at a 7,000-per-week clip...If Project Vote is to reach its goal of registering 150,000 out of an estimated 400,000 unregistered blacks statewide, "it must average 10,000 rather than 7,000 every week," says Barack Obama, the program's executive director...

Dee Myles is a Chicago activist and chair of the Education Commission of the Communist Party USA. In 2004, after Vernon Jarret's death from cancer she penned this tribute for the People's Weekly World of June 5th.

Readers like me can be extremely selective of the journalists we read habitually... We are selective about the journalists to whom we become insatiably addicted, and once hooked we develop a constructive love affair without the romance...

Such was my experience with Vernon Jarrett, an African American journalist in Chicago who died at the age of 86 on May 23. I became a Vernon Jarrett addict, and I am proud of it!

Vernon Jarrett’s career as a journalist in Chicago began and ended at the Chicago Defender, the African American daily paper. In between, he was the first Black journalist at the Chicago Tribune, and I first began to read his articles during his tenure at the Chicago Sun-Times

Jarrett’s claim to fame is that he was a partisan of the cause of African Americans in the broad democratic tradition of Paul Robeson and W.E.B. DuBois...

Robeson and DuBois were both Communist Party members. On April 9th, 1998 at Chicago's South Shore Cultural Center, Jarrett hosted a Paul Robeson Citywide Centennial Celebration event, with his old comrade and Party sympathiser Margaret Burroughs and former Communist Party members Studs Terkel and his old friend Oscar C.Brown.

Dee Myles continues;

Jarrett was fanatical about African Americans registering and voting in mass for socially conscious candidates. He championed Harold Washington like a great warrior, and this March, from his hospital bed, wrote an article appealing to Black Chicago to turn out to vote for Barack Obama in the Illinois primaries. Obama astounded everyone with an incredible landslide victory as the progressive, Black candidate for the Democratic Party nomination for the U.S. Senate seat from Illinois. From his sickbed, Vernon Jarrett issued a clarion call, and the people responded.

The Jarrett/Obama conection did not end with Vernon Jarrett's death-it moved to a higher level with his famous daughter-in-law Valerie Jarrett.

A former Deputy Corporation Counsel for Finance and Development under Harold Washington, Jarrett continued to work in the mayor's office into the 1990s.

In 1991, while Deputy Chief of Staff for Mayor Richard Daley, Jarrett hired Michelle Robinson, then engaged to Barack Obama.

Later Valerie Jarrett ran the finances for Obama’s 2004 Senate bid and served as treasurer of Obama's HOPEFUND.

The relationship is more than professional-Jarrett is regarded as one of the Obamas' closest friends and advisors.

According to Take Political Action May 24th 2008;

"She’s always been the other side of Barack’s brain.” That’s how an Obama insider described Valerie Jarrett as an Obama campaign aide announced Thursday night the former CTA chief and current Habitat Co. CEO is taking on a larger role to help her close friend win his White House bid.

The development comes as Jarrett, a charter member of Sen. Barack Obama’s kitchen cabinet, has been formalizing her portfolio and stepping up the pace within the past few weeks as a top advisor within the campaign.

Though she will be part-time, Jarrett will be one of the most visible and powerful African-Americans in the top rungs of the Obama operation...

Today Valerie Jarrett serves as one of three Senior Advisors to President Obama. She is Assistant to the President for Intergovernmental Affairs and Public Engagement, and Chairs the White House Commission on Women and Girls.

Frank Marshall Davis works closely in communist causes with Vernon Jarrett in Chicago. Davis moves to hawaii where he eventually meets and mentors a young Barack Obama. Then Obama moves to Chicago where his career is promoted by both Davis's old colleague Vernon Jarrett and the Communist Party. Vernon Jarrett's daughter-in-law employs Barack Obama's fiance, befriends the family and becomes one of President Obama's most trusted advisors. The Communist Party throws its entire weight behind Obama's presidential campaign.

Are we expected to believe that this is all mere coincidence?

Would there be an Obama/Jarrett relationship today, if there had been no Frank Marshall Davis/Jarrett connection through the Communist Party of post war Chicago?

What role, if any, has the modern Communist Party USA played in fostering that relationship in more recent times?

The Communist Party USA continues to back their "friend" Barack Obama.

How deeply has the Communist Party been involved in advancing Obama's political career-through the Jarrett family, or by other means?

The answers to these questions will have major implications for the future of what's left of the free world.


http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2009/06/obama-file-78-smoking-gun-proof-that.html



Barack Obama's association with the marxists of Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)is deep and enduring.

It probably started in the early 1980s (when DSA was founded)and it certainly continues today.

Obama makes an apparent reference to DSA in his 1995 autobiography "Dreams From My Father".

Discussing his time at New York's Columbia University, in the early 80s, Obama reveals that he "went to socialist conferences at Cooper Union and African cultural fairs in Brooklyn.”

For many years, from the early '80s until 2004, Cooper Union was the usual venue of the annual Socialist Scholars Conference (SSC)-almost certainly what Obama was referring to.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
jcummins said:
I dislike him too. But that's not now the issue. What is....is how do we stop the destroying of our country.

We cannot take 3+ years of this. It is now VERY obvious, that he is a very FAR left radical. This is the INTENTIONAL destruction of our country as we know it..

Will someone tell me what rights they have lost- that hadn't already been taken away :???:
So far- all I've seen is his return of some rights- like the rule of habeas corpus for all- and the following of the law for wiretaps....

But I keep hearing all these rights lost- but I don't what they are...

So we are to wait UNTIL they are taken away before we protest EH oldtimer?
 

jcummins

Well-known member
hopalong said:
Oldtimer said:
jcummins said:
I dislike him too. But that's not now the issue. What is....is how do we stop the destroying of our country.

We cannot take 3+ years of this. It is now VERY obvious, that he is a very FAR left radical. This is the INTENTIONAL destruction of our country as we know it..

Will someone tell me what rights they have lost- that hadn't already been taken away :???:
So far- all I've seen is his return of some rights- like the rule of habeas corpus for all- and the following of the law for wiretaps....

But I keep hearing all these rights lost- but I don't what they are...

So we are to wait UNTIL they are taken away before we protest EH oldtimer?


E X A C T L Y !
 

RobertMac

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
RobertMac said:
Oldtimer said:
Will someone tell me what rights they have lost- that hadn't already been taken away :???:
So far- all I've seen is his return of some rights- like the rule of habeas corpus for all- and the following of the law for wiretaps....

But I keep hearing all these rights lost- but I don't what they are...
I can't see where I lost any rights under Bush, but I do know the country wasn't attacked again...and it wasn't because the borders were sealed off. So, the terrorist that wanted to attack the USA must have been doing something else...like getting killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Tell me OT, does the USA need to be fundamentally changed as Obama has said and the people around him have said? Wouldn't that mean changing the Constitution or doing away with the Constitution? Would you think that you have lost any rights if that happened? Give Obama time, you will lose some rights...just ask the CEO of GM!!!!!!

Now you're blaming the Bush Bust and bankruptcy of GM on Obama :???: :roll:

Yep- thats all I hear is "he's going to" or "they will"-- but still seen no evidence of anything being done...Definitely nothing like all the rights and law violations we saw under GW.....

Is Obama perfect- nope- but the only ones I know that are is God and Hypocrit (in his mind)....

Robert Mac--I think its so interesting- in you'alls hatred of Obama- I posted several posts on Bull Sessions- where Obama's new head of GIPSA and P & S A is saying he will do exactly what so many of you wanted Bush's USDA to do-challenge the Packer Mafia monopoly (instead of the Bush era JoAnn Waterfields "shuffle papers and make it look like you're doing something")- but none of you will recognize it or credit it now that he says he'll do it... :roll: And in this hatred that seems to exist toward this administration- next you'll be condemning him for his willingness to enforce these laws-- and falling right into the trap Big Industry is spending a fortune to promote- and by that supporting their ending of the family farm....
You debate like SH...extrapolate things that were never said so you have something to argue against. You're a joke!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tell me where in the Constitution does the President has the right to fire the CEO of a private company??????? Isn't that ignoring or doing away with the Constitution?

The state of the economy is the result of corruption on BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. I bet every Congressional candidate that runs on term limits and a balance budget will get elected on 10/2/10!

Obama has surrounded himself with advisors that have connections to communist organizations...does that concern you? From what I know, communist want to do away with our Constitution...as implied by candidate Obama...fundamentally change our government???!!!!

As for the USDA czar, I'll wait and see. Extreme left wing radicals DON'T EAT MEAT!!!! They may go after the big packers and destroy them...and not let anything replace them!

OT, you can continue to stick your head in the sand, but sooner or later, you are going to have to come up and eat crow! :wink: :lol:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
jcummins said:
I dislike him too. But that's not now the issue. What is....is how do we stop the destroying of our country.

We cannot take 3+ years of this. It is now VERY obvious, that he is a very FAR left radical. This is the INTENTIONAL destruction of our country as we know it..

Will someone tell me what rights they have lost- that hadn't already been taken away :???:
So far- all I've seen is his return of some rights- like the rule of habeas corpus for all-

Less than a month after signing an executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay prison camp, President Barack Obama has quietly agreed to keep denying the right to trial to hundreds more terror suspects held at a makeshift camp in Afghanistan that human rights lawyers have dubbed “Obama’s Guantanamo”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/obama-denies-terror-suspects-right-to-trial-1628958.html
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
jcummins said:
I dislike him too. But that's not now the issue. What is....is how do we stop the destroying of our country.

We cannot take 3+ years of this. It is now VERY obvious, that he is a very FAR left radical. This is the INTENTIONAL destruction of our country as we know it..

Will someone tell me what rights they have lost- that hadn't already been taken away :???:
So far- all I've seen is his return of some rights- like the rule of habeas corpus for all-

Less than a month after signing an executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay prison camp, President Barack Obama has quietly agreed to keep denying the right to trial to hundreds more terror suspects held at a makeshift camp in Afghanistan that human rights lawyers have dubbed “Obama’s Guantanamo”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/obama-denies-terror-suspects-right-to-trial-1628958.html

WW- that article was from February...Since then they have been working diligently on setting up a system of military tribunals and federal courts to handle the hearings/trials....

Something that should have been done- and was ordered by the SCOTUS years ago--but that GW never did....You can't expect Obama or anyone to fix 8 years of Bush screwups in less than a month...
And I heard Holder tell Congress about a month ago that every individual case is now under review by Prosecuters to decide what will be done with the detainees- and whether they will be tried by military tribunal or federal court...


Guantánamo Bay, July 15, 2009: As the Obama administration and Congress mull reinventing for the third time a legal system to try terrorism suspects, three hearings were held today at Guantánamo Bay in the military commission cases of Omar Khadr, Mohammed Kamin, and Ibrahim al Qosi.

The good news is that changes the Obama administration has asked for may help improve a process that has never operated in a way that folks familiar with the American legal system would recognize as justice. The bad news is that the system is so flawed that these changes cannot salvage it. Meanwhile, our normal federal criminal courts competently go about the business of trying international terrorism cases, to the tune of over one hundred in the years shortly before and since 9/11. Go figure.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Will someone tell me what rights they have lost- that hadn't already been taken away :???:
So far- all I've seen is his return of some rights- like the rule of habeas corpus for all-

Less than a month after signing an executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay prison camp, President Barack Obama has quietly agreed to keep denying the right to trial to hundreds more terror suspects held at a makeshift camp in Afghanistan that human rights lawyers have dubbed “Obama’s Guantanamo”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/obama-denies-terror-suspects-right-to-trial-1628958.html

WW- that article was from February...Since then they have been working diligently on setting up a system of military tribunals and federal courts to handle the hearings/trials....

Something that should have been done- and was ordered by the SCOTUS years ago--but that GW never did....You can't expect Obama or anyone to fix 8 years of Bush screwups in less than a month...
And I heard Holder tell Congress about a month ago that every individual case is now under review by Prosecuters to decide what will be done with the detainees- and whether they will be tried by military tribunal or federal court...


Guantánamo Bay, July 15, 2009: As the Obama administration and Congress mull reinventing for the third time a legal system to try terrorism suspects, three hearings were held today at Guantánamo Bay in the military commission cases of Omar Khadr, Mohammed Kamin, and Ibrahim al Qosi.

The good news is that changes the Obama administration has asked for may help improve a process that has never operated in a way that folks familiar with the American legal system would recognize as justice. The bad news is that the system is so flawed that these changes cannot salvage it. Meanwhile, our normal federal criminal courts competently go about the business of trying international terrorism cases, to the tune of over one hundred in the years shortly before and since 9/11. Go figure.

You're talking about Gitmo, I was talking about Bagram. But I suppose it could depend on how one defines the word all.

As it relates to the war on terror, I'm generally pleased with Obama's performance as he's basically adopted (with only minor changes) virtually every aspect of the Bush/Cheney doctrine. Visit the Democratic Underground sometime if you wish to see what real liberals think about Obama's performance vis a vis the war on terror. They're not happy campers.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
Less than a month after signing an executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay prison camp, President Barack Obama has quietly agreed to keep denying the right to trial to hundreds more terror suspects held at a makeshift camp in Afghanistan that human rights lawyers have dubbed “Obama’s Guantanamo”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/obama-denies-terror-suspects-right-to-trial-1628958.html

WW- that article was from February...Since then they have been working diligently on setting up a system of military tribunals and federal courts to handle the hearings/trials....

Something that should have been done- and was ordered by the SCOTUS years ago--but that GW never did....You can't expect Obama or anyone to fix 8 years of Bush screwups in less than a month...
And I heard Holder tell Congress about a month ago that every individual case is now under review by Prosecuters to decide what will be done with the detainees- and whether they will be tried by military tribunal or federal court...


Guantánamo Bay, July 15, 2009: As the Obama administration and Congress mull reinventing for the third time a legal system to try terrorism suspects, three hearings were held today at Guantánamo Bay in the military commission cases of Omar Khadr, Mohammed Kamin, and Ibrahim al Qosi.

The good news is that changes the Obama administration has asked for may help improve a process that has never operated in a way that folks familiar with the American legal system would recognize as justice. The bad news is that the system is so flawed that these changes cannot salvage it. Meanwhile, our normal federal criminal courts competently go about the business of trying international terrorism cases, to the tune of over one hundred in the years shortly before and since 9/11. Go figure.

You're talking about Gitmo, I was talking about Bagram. But I suppose it could depend on how one defines the word all.

As it relates to the war on terror, I'm generally pleased with Obama's performance as he's basically adopted (with only minor changes) virtually every aspect of the Bush/Cheney doctrine. Visit the Democratic Underground sometime if you wish to see what real liberals think about Obama's performance vis a vis the war on terror. They're not happy campers.

A lot of the far left aren't... But many folks that don't go to the radical extremes on either side seem to not be that upset-- and kind of like me- a wait and see what happens down the road attitude...I gave Bush 5 years- until I could see what he was doing to the rule of law in the country and the economy- so I'll give Obama a few years to see if he can fix the Bush screwups...

Not exactly sure what will happen with those held in Afghanistan-- sounded like they would like to have the majority handled by the Afghan court system- and never brought onto US soil where they come under US jurisdiction ... I think much of it is awaiting the outcome of these ongoing Afghan elections....
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
I agree with you Whitewing. I believe he's taking the threat seriously. He did not let partisan politics get in the way when he decided to keep Gates on. And keep Brennan in a significant role. It would be unwise to put in all new players. Each administration has serious learning curve and we cannot afford this in this case.

However I believe he's addressing some of the serious shortcomings of Bush and Cheney's decisions. Gitmo became a propaganda tool for the terrorists. And we have let Afghanistan fall back into a lawless situation due to having wars on two fronts.

My views on Afghanistan have morphed over time. I'm now of a mind that we get out......boots-on-ground get out, that is. I think we'd be better served to leave behind a strong CIA presence to garner information and use Predator Drones and HellFire missles for cleanup.

Someone said that Afghanistan was where empires went to die. I'm thinking they were right.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldttimer said:
I gave Bush 5 years- until I could see what he was doing to the rule of law in the country and the economy- so I'll give Obama a few years to see if he can fix the Bush screwups....

Honestly Oldtimer, I think you'd be hard-pressed to demonstrate to me exactly what Bush did to the economy that Obama is now in the process of fixing. Unless you're going to make the argument that massive deficit spending under Bush was bad, but even more massive deficit spending under Obama is somehow good.

I think today's economic problems started back in the early 80's with deregulation and the dropping of trade barriers that allowed us to enjoy a false economy for about 30 years. The chickens are now coming home to roost in the form of a devalued American dollar and a significant loss of our industrial base. We now owe our souls to the Chinese.

Yeah, this started with Reagan, but democrat-controlled Houses, Senates, and the Clinton Admin all went along for the joy ride. There's lots of blame to go around.

Maybe Obama's on to something with his destruction of the American dollar? At least the American debt the Chinese now hold will be worth far far less in just a few years.
 
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