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Obama says....but can he be serious??

Cal

Well-known member
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_072407/content/01125106.guest.html

OBAMA: I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration -- is ridiculous. (APPLAUSE) Now, Ronald Reagan and Democratic presidents like JFK constantly spoke to Soviet Union at a time when Ronald Reagan called them an evil empire. And the reason is because they understood that we may not trust them and they may pose an extraordinary danger to this country, but we had the obligation to find areas where we can potentially move forward. And I think that it is a disgrace that we have not spoken to them. We've been talking about Iraq -- one of the first things that I would do in terms of moving a diplomatic effort in the region forward is to send a signal that we need to talk to Iran and Syria because they're going to have responsibilities if Iraq collapses. :???: :???:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Bush said that we'd NOT talk to Iran and Syria.....yet again he's flip flopped and both countries have been engaged in talks.

Iran talks are going on this week even, so we're already doing this.

Anyone knows that the best place to keep your enemies is close.
 

Goodpasture

Well-known member
I don;t understand the problem, Cal, Iraq has already collapsed into civil war. There are protagoists in the area that are seriously causeing problems and taking one side or another. Turkey has a vested interest in the Kurds (they have a massive Kurdish population, and a Kurdish state would cause them tremendous problems), Syria, Iran, Al Qaeda, Kuwait, the Saudi's, all have interests in Iraqi stability. Why WOULDN'T a conference and trying to get everyone on the same page be a wise thing to do? To partition the country or to stop a civil war, talking the guys, who are supplying soldiers and weapons, into neutrality would be magnificent statesmanship.
 

Cal

Well-known member
Iran and Syria, the countries that are supplying the IEDs (and as far as I know Saddams former lieutenant still claims that plane loads of weapons materials were flown to Syria prior to the invasion of Iraq) that have been responsible for most of the American deaths, and keeping things stirred up in general....are going to be given "responsibilites" in case Iraq collapses. That is wayyyyy too trusting, or more accurately nieve, IMO, especially considering the whole "death to America" thing. But I do understand that having Iraq collapse would be a big victory for the Democrats as well.

It's also been reported, or underreported, by the US media, that Al-Qaida is losing support:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article2121006.ece

The TimesJuly 23, 2007

Al-Qaeda faces rebellion from the ranks
Sickened by the group’s barbarity, Iraqi insurgents are giving information to coalition forces
Deborah Haynes in Doura
Fed up with being part of a group that cuts off a person’s face with piano wire to teach others a lesson, dozens of low-level members of al-Qaeda in Iraq are daring to become informants for the US military in a hostile Baghdad neighbourhood.

The ground-breaking move in Doura is part of a wider trend that has started in other al-Qaeda hotspots across the country and in which Sunni insurgent groups and tribal sheikhs have stood together with the coalition against the extremist movement.

“They are turning. We are talking to people who we believe have worked for al-Qaeda in Iraq and want to reconcile and have peace,” said Colonel Ricky Gibbs, commander of the 4th Brigade, 1st Infantry Division, which oversees the area.

The sewage-filled streets of Doura, a Sunni Arab enclave in south Baghdad, provide an ugly setting for what US commanders say is al-Qaeda’s last stronghold in the city. The secretive group, however, appears to be losing its grip as a “surge” of US troops in the neighbourhood – part of the latest effort by President Bush to end the chaos in Iraq – has resulted in scores of fighters being killed, captured or forced to flee.


Iraq: Has America lost the will to win?
Even if the war is still winnable in Iraq, it is now being lost at home. Even some Republican senators are calling for troops to be withdrawn


“Al-Qaeda’s days are numbered and right now he is scrambling,” said Lieutenant-Colonel Stephen Michael, who commands a battalion of 700 troops in Doura.

A key factor is that local people and members of al-Qaeda itself have become sickened by the violence and are starting to rebel, Lieutenant-Colonel Michael said. “The people have got to deny them sanctuary and that is exactly what is happening.”

Al-Qaeda informants comprise largely members of the Doura network who found themselves either working with the group after the US-led invasion in March 2003, or signed up to earn extra cash because there were no other jobs going. Disgusted at the attacks and intimidation techniques used on friends, neighbours and even relatives, they are now increasingly looking for a way out, US officers say.

“It is only after al-Qaeda has become truly barbaric and done things like, to teach lessons to people, cut their face off with piano wire in front of their family and then murdered everybody except one child who told the tale afterwards . . . that people realise how much of a mess they are in,” Lieutenant James Danly, 31, who works on military intelligence in Doura, said.

It is impossible to corroborate the claims, but he said that scores of junior al-Qaeda in Iraq members there had become informants since May, including one low-level cell leader who gave vital information after his arrest.

“He gave us dates, places and names and who did what,” Lieutenant Danly said. When asked why he was being so forthcoming, the man said: “Because I am sick of it and I hate them, and I am done.”

Working with insurgents – even those who claim to have switched sides – is a leap of faith for both sides. Every informant who visits Forward Operating Base Falcon, a vast military camp on the southern outskirts of Baghdad, is blindfolded when brought in and out to avoid gleaning any information about his surroundings.

The risk sometimes pays off. A recent tip-off led to the fatal shooting of Abu Kaldoun, one of three senior al-Qaeda leaders in Doura, during a US raid last week. “He was turned in by one of his own,” Colonel Michael said.

Progress with making contacts and gathering actionable information is slow because al-Qaeda has persuasive methods of keeping people quiet. This month it beheaded two men in the street and pinned a note on to their corpses giving warning that anyone who cooperated with US troops would meet the same fate.

The increased presence of US forces in Doura, however, is encouraging insiders to overcome their fear and divulge what they know. Convoys of US soldiers are working the rubble-strewn streets day and night, knocking on doors, speaking to locals and following up leads on possible insurgent hideouts.

“People in al-Qaeda come to us and give us information,” said Lieutenant Scott Flanigan, as he drove past a line of fruit and vegetable stalls near a shabby shopping street in Doura, where people were buying bread and other groceries.

The informants were not seeking an amnesty for crimes that they had committed. “They just do not want to be killed,” Lieutenant Flanigan said.

Jordanian-born Abu Musab al-Zarqawi – who was killed in a US raid last year – established the Iraqi al-Qaeda network in 2004, but opinions differ on its compilation, size and capabilities. Some military experts believe that the group is a cell-based network of chapters who are loosely linked to an overall leader by go-between operatives.

Others, however, describe al-Qaeda in Iraq as a sort of franchise, with separate cells around the country that use the brand – made infamous by Osama bin Laden – and cultural ideology but do not work closely with each other or for one overriding leader.

Despite the uncertainties one thing seems guaranteed. A hardcore of people calling themselves al-Qaeda in Iraq remains devoted to the extremist cause and is determined to fight on whatever the cost.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Cal said:
Iran and Syria, the countries that are supplying the IEDs (and as far as I know Saddams former lieutenant still claims that plane loads of weapons materials were flown to Syria prior to the invasion of Iraq) that have been responsible for most of the American deaths, and keeping things stirred up in general....are going to be given "responsibilites" in case Iraq collapses. That is wayyyyy too trusting, or more accurately nieve, IMO, especially considering the whole "death to America" thing. But I do understand that having Iraq collapse would be a big victory for the Democrats as well.

It's also been reported, or underreported, by the US media, that Al-Qaida is losing support:


#1 They also said they had WMD's...so you still believe them????

#2..Al Qaida is like a bunch of bank vice-presidents...there are tons of them suckers and when one leaves there are 4 more to replace them. They're stronger than ever and you have George Bush to thank for them even being in Iraq and scattered across the Middle East like pi$$ antz!!!
 

Mike

Well-known member
#1 They also said they had WMD's...so you still believe them????

What do you think they used when they gassed all those Kurds?

#2..Al Qaida is like a bunch of bank vice-presidents...there are tons of them suckers and when one leaves there are 4 more to replace them. They're stronger than ever and you have George Bush to thank for them even being in Iraq and scattered across the Middle East like pi$$ antz!!!

This why we need to stay the course and kill them all, wherever they may be. I know, I know, there may be millions, but if we get out too soon the job won't be finished.
 

schnurrbart

Well-known member
Mike said:
#1 They also said they had WMD's...so you still believe them????

What do you think they used when they gassed all those Kurds?

#2..Al Qaida is like a bunch of bank vice-presidents...there are tons of them suckers and when one leaves there are 4 more to replace them. They're stronger than ever and you have George Bush to thank for them even being in Iraq and scattered across the Middle East like pi$$ antz!!!

This why we need to stay the course and kill them all, wherever they may be. I know, I know, there may be millions, but if we get out too soon the job won't be finished.

How many times could saddam have used that gas (that we provided him btw)? Of course, he had wmd. We know that. We saw him use SCUDS. However, we also watched as UN inspectors destroyed hundreds of missiles and bombs and other pieces of equipment right after the first gulf war. Then the lid was put on and he couldn't scratch his butt without someone knowing it. As for not talking to countries that pose a problem for us, it is really stupid. A great general of the 60s said, "If you truly desire peace, you talk not to your friends but to your enemies." His name was Moshe Dayan.
 

quickdraw

Well-known member
schnurrbart said:
Mike said:
#1 They also said they had WMD's...so you still believe them????

What do you think they used when they gassed all those Kurds?

#2..Al Qaida is like a bunch of bank vice-presidents...there are tons of them suckers and when one leaves there are 4 more to replace them. They're stronger than ever and you have George Bush to thank for them even being in Iraq and scattered across the Middle East like pi$$ antz!!!

This why we need to stay the course and kill them all, wherever they may be. I know, I know, there may be millions, but if we get out too soon the job won't be finished.

How many times could saddam have used that gas (that we provided him btw)? Of course, he had wmd. We know that. We saw him use SCUDS. However, we also watched as UN inspectors destroyed hundreds of missiles and bombs and other pieces of equipment right after the first gulf war. Then the lid was put on and he couldn't scratch his butt without someone knowing it. As for not talking to countries that pose a problem for us, it is really stupid. A great general of the 60s said, "If you truly desire peace, you talk not to your friends but to your enemies." His name was Moshe Dayan.

I suppose that is why we allow the liberals to post on forums like this, It allows us to know who the enemy really is!
 

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