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Obamacare Layoffs, Hiring Freezes Begin

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
OT thinks the taxpayer should pay for these people's insurance, instead of the companies they work for.


Mark Zandi of Moody’s Analytics.

“It will have a negative impact on job creation” this year, says Mr. Zandi.


A survey by the International Franchise Association finds that 31% of franchisees say they plan to cut staff to duck under Obamacare’s 50-employer mandate. And another study by Mercer consulting firm found that half of businesses who don’t presently offer health insurance plan to reduce employee hours to avert triggering Obamacare’s penalties.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/04/Surprise-Obamacare-Layoffs-And-Hiring-Freezes-Begin
 
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Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
OT thinks the taxpayer should pay for these people's insurance, instead of the companies they work for.


Mark Zandi of Moody’s Analytics.

“It will have a negative impact on job creation” this year, says Mr. Zandi.


A survey by the International Franchise Association finds that 31% of franchisees say they plan to cut staff to duck under Obamacare’s 50-employer mandate. And another study by Mercer consulting firm found that half of businesses who don’t presently offer health insurance plan to reduce employee hours to avert triggering Obamacare’s penalties.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/04/Surprise-Obamacare-Layoffs-And-Hiring-Freezes-Begin

You give me way too much credit for an idea that was not originally mine...

Remember the employer mandate was first proposed to Congress by a Republican President (Nixon)- later amended to be an individual mandate by the very conservative Heritage foundation-- and has been the Republicans alternative to single payer insurance (like Canada's) whenever it was proposed by Dems... Up until Congress adopted it- Utah Senator Orrin Hatch (an R) was still pitching the mandate as part of the answer to a runaway health care cost that the US not only rated highest in cost per person but highest in % of GDP-- and that was growing fastest of any country in the world... His and the conservative contentions then were that healthcare costs were the biggest draw on the nations economy- and that the mandate was needed to keep us in the running with economic costs around the world- so we could compete in the world economy...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/06/01/us-healthcare-costs-sb-idUSTRE5504Z320090601

The mandate did not become evil or a pariah- until the Dems and moderate Repubs accepted it- and it became evident the Obama might do something positive..... :( Then many of the things put out about the law were flat out falsehoods- and fearmongering...

It was- before under the Republicans- and still is the contention under the Dems- that we will not begin to see real major cost savings for several years- but that 10-20-30 years down the line it will be the biggest positive financial move we could have made...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
the Nixon/Kennedy plan was not the same as obamacare.

But you are too committed to your "cult" to research the differences, or how times have changed since the Nixon era.

How many people are uninsured, compared to 1974? How many have gained company insurance since 1974.

Research those 2 questions, honestly, and you might learn something..
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
....... that we will not begin to see real major cost savings for several years- but that 10-20-30 years down the line it will be the biggest positive financial move we could have made...

Wow, that statement coupled with "it'll take at least 10 years to recover from the Bush Bust", gives you decades more time on your donk knee pads. Lucky you OT.

Seriously, until someone has the balls to reign in the trial lawyers, you can forget about ever getting health care costs under control.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
....... that we will not begin to see real major cost savings for several years- but that 10-20-30 years down the line it will be the biggest positive financial move we could have made...

Wow, that statement coupled with "it'll take at least 10 years to recover from the Bush Bust", gives you decades more time on your donk knee pads. Lucky you OT.

Seriously, until someone has the balls to reign in the trial lawyers, you can forget about ever getting health care costs under control.


Meanwhile...in Canada, costs continue to increase. :lol:
 

gmacbeef

Well-known member
Oltimer wrote:The mandate did not become evil or a pariah- until the Dems and moderate Repubs accepted it- and it became evident the Obama might do something positive..... Sad Then many of the things put out about the law were flat out falsehoods- and fearmongering...


Would that include the dozens of flat out LIES that Oblamea stated over & over ??? The most famous being "if you like your health care you can keep it " ! BULLSHYTE !
 
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Anonymous

Guest
gmacbeef said:
Oltimer wrote:The mandate did not become evil or a pariah- until the Dems and moderate Repubs accepted it- and it became evident the Obama might do something positive..... Sad Then many of the things put out about the law were flat out falsehoods- and fearmongering...


Would that include the dozens of flat out LIES that Oblamea stated over & over ??? The most famous being "if you like your health care you can keep it " ! BULLSHYTE !

I still have the healthcare we've had for years...Why would you not be allowed to keep your current health care- unless you didn't have any? The same 3-4 parent multinational corporate entities that offer all insurance in the country will still be offering it... The only addition I see is that each state (or the fed if the state refuses to act) will have to offer a pool you have the option of joining....
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
How do you expect the government to successfully run health care? Look at the absolute shambles they have done to the postal service, and they have had since 1775 to get it right. Both the postal service and health care need to be offered to the highest bidder in the private sector, and the problems would soon be solved.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Soapweed said:
How do you expect the government to successfully run health care? Look at the absolute shambles they have done to the postal service, and they have had since 1775 to get it right. Both the postal service and health care need to be offered to the highest bidder in the private sector, and the problems would soon be solved.

That is pretty much what the Obama care law does- offer the insurance to the lowest bidder thru the private sector....The idea put out both by Republicans of old, Dems, and the health care insurance industry is that by building larger pools of insured- the individual costs of insurance can be lowered- and over a period of years with everyone insured and more folks getting preventive care or early diagnosis- the high costs of not finding diseases until they are in stage 3 or stage 4 and the costly treatment that goes with that should be reduced-- which allows the insurance costs to drop more.... Its a Catch-22 situation in reverse...
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
How do you expect the government to successfully run health care? Look at the absolute shambles they have done to the postal service, and they have had since 1775 to get it right. Both the postal service and health care need to be offered to the highest bidder in the private sector, and the problems would soon be solved.

That is pretty much what the Obama care law does- offer the insurance to the lowest bidder thru the private sector....The idea put out both by Republicans of old, Dems, and the health care insurance industry is that by building larger pools of insured- the individual costs of insurance can be lowered- and over a period of years with everyone insured and more folks getting preventive care or early diagnosis- the high costs of not finding diseases until they are in stage 3 or stage 4 and the costly treatment that goes with that should be reduced-- which allows the insurance costs to drop more.... Its a Catch-22 situation in reverse...

Stupid, stupid. Larger insurance pools do not guarantee lower premiums.

The ones who do not have insurance now are NOT the ones to add to a pool to lower premiums. They are probably the most unhealthy sector of society and will run to see a doctor for a snotty nose when they do get free healthcare, Medicaid...............................

I saw where insurance premiums have gone up 20-25% in the past few months in some places.....

There's only one way to lower insurance premiums. Get gov't out of healthcare, period. Well, maybe another. Give terrible service.........
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
How do you expect the government to successfully run health care? Look at the absolute shambles they have done to the postal service, and they have had since 1775 to get it right. Both the postal service and health care need to be offered to the highest bidder in the private sector, and the problems would soon be solved.

That is pretty much what the Obama care law does- offer the insurance to the lowest bidder thru the private sector....The idea put out both by Republicans of old, Dems, and the health care insurance industry is that by building larger pools of insured- the individual costs of insurance can be lowered- and over a period of years with everyone insured and more folks getting preventive care or early diagnosis- the high costs of not finding diseases until they are in stage 3 or stage 4 and the costly treatment that goes with that should be reduced-- which allows the insurance costs to drop more.... Its a Catch-22 situation in reverse...

Stupid, stupid. Larger insurance pools do not guarantee lower premiums.

The ones who do not have insurance now are NOT the ones to add to a pool to lower premiums. They are probably the most unhealthy sector of society and will run to see a doctor for a snotty nose when they do get free healthcare, Medicaid...............................

I saw where insurance premiums have gone up 20-25% in the past few months in some places.....

There's only one way to lower insurance premiums. Get gov't out of healthcare, period. Well, maybe another. Give terrible service.........



Private insurance companies push for 'individual mandate'

Healthcare: Road to Reforms


As momentum gains for reforms, insurers hope to turn it to their advantage by supporting a proposal that everyone buy coverage. It would be a boost for the industry, which has seen enrollment decline.

June 07, 2009|Lisa Girion


Some may find it hard to believe that the U.S. health insurance industry supports making major changes to the nation's healthcare system.

The industry, after all, scuttled President Clinton's healthcare overhaul bid with ads featuring "Harry and Louise" fretting about change.

But this time, it turns out, the health insurance industry has good reason to support at least some change: It needs it.



Private health insurance faces a bleak future if the proposal they champion most vigorously -- a requirement that everyone buy medical coverage -- is not adopted.

The customer base for private insurance has slipped since 2000, when soaring premiums began driving people out. The recession has accelerated the problem. But even after the economy recovers, the downward spiral is expected to continue for years as baby boomers become eligible for Medicare -- and stop buying private insurance.


Insurers do not embrace all of the healthcare restructuring proposals. But they are fighting hard for a purchase requirement, sweetened with taxpayer-funded subsidies for customers who can't afford it, and enforced with fines.

Such a so-called individual mandate amounts to a huge booster shot for health insurers, which would serve up millions of new customers almost overnight.

"I think that's why we've seen the industry basically trying to play the administration's game," said Jane DuBose, an analyst with industry tracking firm HealthLeaders-InterStudy. "They really could be licking their chops over the potential here."

The industry says its interest in change flows not from narrow self-interest but from broader concerns.

"What's driving this is we have 47 million people who don't have access to the system, who get help through emergency rooms, and that results in higher costs and inefficient care," said Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for industry trade group America's Health Insurance Plans. "There's both a social and economic reason to get everybody in the healthcare system."

Jay Gellert, chief executive of Woodland Hills-based Health Net, said industry support for certain changes is driven by "a recognition that public frustration with many of the problems in the system [is] increasing pretty significantly. So I think there's as much of a commitment to this because we've seen other industries where they haven't dealt with issues early enough, like financial services and auto, and that's not a happy place."

Still, industry observers say, private insurers need the government's help to transform some of the nation's 45 million uninsured residents into paying customers.

Private insurers lost an estimated 9 million customers between 2000 and 2007. In many cases, people lost coverage because they or their employers could no longer afford it as premium increases outpaced wage growth and inflation.

Recession job losses are adding to the toll. Some economists estimate that every percentage-point increase in the jobless rate adds 1 million people to the ranks of the uninsured.


The industry's real trouble begins in 2011, when 79 million baby boomers begin turning 65. Health insurers stand to lose a huge slice of their commercially insured enrollment (estimated at 162 million to 172 million people) over the next two decades to Medicare, the government-funded health insurance program for seniors.

"The rate of aging far and away exceeds the birth rate," said Sheryl Skolnick, a CRT Capital Group healthcare investment analyst. "That's got to be very scary. . . . This is the biggest fight for survival managed care has ever faced, at least since they went bankrupt in the late '80s."

With Democrats in power and public sentiment in favor of change, the industry can't afford to flatly oppose it, said Julius Hobson, a Washington lobbyist for hospitals and insurers with the law firm Bryan Cave.

"This time, you get the sense something is going to happen," he said. "So to stand up and just say no is probably not wise, because politically you could get run over."

For insurers, getting "run over" would be the adoption of a so-called single-payer plan, in which the government pays all medical bills. Such a plan, though widely viewed as politically unfeasible this year, would wreak havoc on the private insurance market.

The best way for the industry to preserve the private insurance market -- and derail the campaign for a single-payer system -- may be to go along with more palatable proposals on the table now, said Jeffrey Miles, a healthcare analyst and president of the Miles Organization, a Los Angeles insurance brokerage firm.

"If healthcare goes down this year, you are going to end up with single-payer care much sooner than anyone expected," he said.

But there is a limit to how much change the industry will abide. It draws the line at proposals, supported by President Obama and others, to offer consumers a public insurance alternative to private coverage.


Premiums have been going up at huge rates and pricing folks out of the ability to afford insurance for years and years... Which just rises the cost to those still buying insurance or paying for healthcare thru the Catch 22...

That is the reason that for years the number one issue voters said needed to be taken up was health care reform (prior to GW making the Iraq War or Bush Bust number one :roll: )... It is the reason for years and years Repubs/Conservative supported the mandate as an answer... Its the reason the Insurance Industry testified in the Congressional Hearings that their preferred answer- and the way they believed they could best lower insurance costs- was thru a mandate requiring everyone to be covered....
 

Mike

Well-known member
What your idiocy ain't thinking about is all the millions more people who will get free insurance from the gov't. We cannot afford it.

Oh, and rates ain't gonna come down for the private insureds. Wanna bet?
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Too bad someone in the Bush administration didn't read it before they
passed it..........WAIT!!! Bush didn't do that, the OBAMA administration
did. Wouldn't have guessed that in a million years!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
What your idiocy ain't thinking about is all the millions more people who will get free insurance from the gov't. We cannot afford it.

Oh, and rates ain't gonna come down for the private insureds. Wanna bet?

We are already paying for them- either thru Medicaid or another program- or thru the fact the others get no preventive or early treatment- and that when they get a serious illness they are getting the expensive treatment- not paying for it- which means the Hospital raises its rates to cover those nonpayments- and in turn the insurance companies then raise their costs to make up for the increasing hospital costs....
A Cycle that needs to be broken- but will take years to do...
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Faster horses said:
Too bad someone in the Bush administration didn't read it before they
passed it..........WAIT!!! Bush didn't do that, the OBAMA administration
did. Wouldn't have guessed that in a million years!

Yes Bush did support the mandate ... George H.W. Bush !!! :lol:







A lot of Republicans supported the individual mandate

Posted by Ezra Klein at 02:00 PM ET, 05/12/2011

Yesterday, David at the Blue Mass Group uncovered a 1994 New Republic article in which then-Senate candidate Mitt Romney told John Judis that if he were elected, he’d support John Chafee’s health-care reforms — which included a national individual mandate. Today, Huffington Post’s Sam Stein follows up with an article arguing that Newt Gingrich also has a long paper record attesting to his support for an individual mandate.

I’d suggest we shouldn’t act so surprised: The individual mandate was a Republican policy idea. It was developed as a defense against single-payer health care. It was endorsed by the Heritage Foundation. George H.W. Bush put together a plan with an individual mandate, but left it on the shelf because there was no way it’d pass in a Democratic Congress. It was present in the two main health-care proposals that Republicans released as alternatives to Bill Clinton’s health-care reforms. This wasn’t policy that a few Republican heretics were curious about. It was something that about half of the Republicans in the Senate affirmatively signed onto, policy that the most important Republican think tank backed, policy that a Republican president considered proposing. I won’t go so far as to say it was official Republican Party policy, but it was pretty close. Look at the co-sponsors from the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act, the legislation that Romney spoke favorably of back in 1994. I’ve bolded the names of all the Republicans who were active in health-care reform during the last two years.


Robert Bennett [R-UT], Christopher Bond [R-MO], David Boren [D-OK], William Cohen [R-ME], John Danforth [R-MO], Robert Dole [R-KS], Pete Domenici [R-NM], David Durenberger [R-MN], Duncan Faircloth [R-NC], Slade Gorton [R-WA], Charles Grassley [R-IA], Orrin Hatch [R-UT], Mark Hatfield [R-OR], Nancy Kassebaum [R-KS], Robert Kerrey [D-NE], Richard Lugar [R-IN], Alan Simpson [R-WY], Arlen Specter [R-PA], Ted Stevens [R-AK], John Warner [R-VA].

And then there was the Consumer Choice Health Security Act of 1994, which included signatures from:


Robert Bennett [R-UT], George Brown [R-CO], Conrad Burns [R-MT], Daniel Coats [R-IN], Thad Cochran [R-MS], Paul Coverdell [R-GA], Larry Craig [R-ID], Robert Dole [R-KS], Duncan Faircloth [R-NC], Charles Grassley [R-IA], Judd Gregg [R-NH], Orrin Hatch [R-UT], Jesse Helms [R-NC], Kay Hutchison [R-TX], Dirk Kempthorne [R-ID], Trent Lott [R-MS], Richard Lugar [R-IN], Connie Mack [R-FL], Frank Murkowski [R-AK], Alan Simpson [R-WY], Bob Smith [R-NH], Ted Stevens [R-AK], Strom Thurmond [R-SC], Malcolm Wallop [R-WY].

That’s a lot of Republicans who remain in perfectly good standing today. The idea that past support for the individual mandate is some weird quirk of Gingrich or Romney’s past just isn’t accurate. If you’re talking about Republicans who were in any way active during the 1990s, there’s a very good chance you’re talking about Republicans who either supported or said nice things about bills that included an individual mandate.

And before that- back in the 70's- Nixon sent a letter to Congress proposing both an employer mandate and an individual mandate as answers to the Health Care cost problem...
 

Mike

Well-known member
You've been snookered. The subsidies paid out to those making up to 400% of the Federal Poverty Level for insurance premiums will be more than what we could ever begin to afford. Yes, there wil be people making $40,000.00 to $50,000.00 per year getting a tax credit for sometimes more than their health insurance premiums.

Because the subsidies are tied to the FPL, those with more kids will get more subsidies, back to square one of the welfare brood mares.

Why do you think the Congressional Budget Office estimated the costs to be much higher than Buckwheat led us to believe?

Do you not realize we're broke? Do you not realize the banks took the money and ran?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
Do you not realize we're broke? Do you not realize the banks took the money and ran?

I do know the Bush Bust did us great harm--BUT unlike you and the naysayers that want to see this country to implode or go into anarchy so you can live like you did pre Civil War- I think we need to keep looking for ways to fix our problems and not only to fix the immediate problems but those of the next generations....
And there are millions of folks out there that have the funds that are irresponsibly still taking the free ride and sticking the rising costs on the responsible folks that are picking up the bills...




Forbes
Pharma & Healthcare

6/17/2012 @ 8:46AM |6,547 views

Mandate To Buy Coverage: Health Insurance Industry's Idea, Not Obama's



As the nation awaits the Supreme Court ruling on the fate of the Affordable Care Act, let’s take a trip down memory lane on the industry that was the biggest supporter of the now controversial requirement to buy coverage, also known as the “individual mandate.”

The idea was pushed early in the debate by America’s Health Insurance Plans perhaps like no other health care lobby in Washington. AHIP, as it is known, includes the biggest names in health insurance such as UnitedHealth Group (UNH); Humana Inc. (HUM); Aetna Inc. (AET) and Cigna Corp. (CI) along with most big Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans.



Here’s a tick tock of key statements on the industry’s push for the individual mandate that is at the center of today’s debate – and likely the upcoming Supreme Court decision – on the Affordable Care Act’s constitutionality.

Less than two weeks after Obama defeated Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona in the presidential election, AHIP put out a news release on Nov. 19, 2008 that said: “Health plans today proposed guaranteed coverage for people with pre-existing medical conditions in conjunction with an enforceable individual coverage mandate.” Here’s a link to that release, complete with lobby CEO Karen Ignagni’s statement touting how “no one should fall through the cracks.”

A few weeks later, the health insurance lobby then offered its comprehensive reform proposal, again reiterating the “enforceable individual coverage mandate.” Here’s that statement, which said the mandate was needed to “achieving universal coverage.”

As the health reform debate intensified in the next two years, AHIP released another key statement, linked here, on Aug. 11, 2009 touting the requirement, bolstering its argument with three different independent polls showing more than 60 percent support among Americans for requiring all Americans to buy coverage.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2012/06/17/mandate-to-buy-coverage-health-insurance-industrys-idea-not-obamas/


And I think we need to work with industry to fix those problems... And as the lady pictured in this article testified under oath for days in front of Congress- the mandate that is part of Obamacare is the best way..
 

gearhead

Well-known member
OT you just can't admit that the bust is not because of Bush but the democrats that were in control of the house and senate for the last two years of his presidency. You complain that the senate isn't doing their job, well a little news for you, it is democrat controlled. Democrats are whats wrong with this country not Bush or the republicans. obama has lied repeatedly about everything including not raising taxes on the middle-class. We give worthless and lazy people free money and phones so that they will vote for democrats so that they can further destroy the country and change it from a dominant and inventive constructive society to a communist socialist one that wants everything given to them without earning it in any way.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I think we need to keep looking for ways to fix our problems and not only to fix the immediate problems but those of the next generations....
And there are millions of folks out there that have the funds that are irresponsibly still taking the free ride and sticking the rising costs on the responsible folks that are picking up the bills...

Read again what you just posted and then point this out to YOUR president. The rest of us have been saying this for years.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
gearhead said:
OT you just can't admit that the bust is not because of Bush but the democrats that were in control of the house and senate for the last two years of his presidency.

BULLPUCKEY-- I was predicting the Bush Bust already in 2005...Anyone that looked could see it coming except Bush and the hardcore R cult followers...Even Bush's own Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill saw it and warned GW that you can't cut taxes and fight 2 wars on the credit card... How did Bush respond- he fired O'Neill and got in a yes man......
We were already in recession by 2007... Dems controlling Congress didn't run down as powerful a country as the U.S. in one year... :roll: :lol:

And as far as healthcare and who caused the problem- this isn't a Dem or a Repub created problem alone...One of the biggest killer laws of all is Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 (or COBRA)- which was signed into law by Reagan in 1986...
It says that if I find a bum, or illegal, or transient (someone with no money- no insurance) laying on the street- call an ambulance which transports to the hospital and finds out the person is having a heart attack- by law they then have to air ambulance that person to the nearest cardiac care unit (Billings) - where they do heart surgery on the person to solve the problem and have to care for them until they are stabilized enough to be released...
And guess who picks up all those Hospital, Ambulance, and Doctors bills-- you and I....
 
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