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Of Cattle and Gumbo Lillies

Turkey Track Bar

Well-known member
Thought I'd share a few photos I took last week. Tap inspired me to try some different things, again.

Some of our commercial cows

commcow1.jpg

Nice two year old

commcows2.jpg

Cows grazing short grass range

commcows3-1.jpg

Another nice two year old

commcows4.jpg

Ugly's in the lead....she was born on a cold, cold, cold day

commcows5.jpg

Inquisitive cows with Saddle Buttes in background

commcows6.jpg

Pairin' up

Registered cows

regcows1.jpg

The Firesteel Creek Valley and all of it's beautiful features is in the background

regcows2.jpg


gumbolilies1.jpg

The Gumbo Lillies are in abundance this year...sure are pretty!

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 

Judith

Well-known member
Pretty!!!! i love black and white! Are you sure that ugly is a cow??? She kind of looks like a hippo? Maybe one of your neighbors slipped one in there as a practical joke :D
 

Jassy

Well-known member
I had to laugh at Ugly...we've got 2 or 3 of them...Miss Ugly I call em..and one of them is always the lead cow...lol Black & White photo's sure are cool looking...thanks
 

Tap

Well-known member
Looks like your "experimenting" passed the test. :)

The only thing is you set yourself up. :) If you calved on green grass old "croppy" would still have those ears. lol. :wink:

Good pictures. Thanks for taking them and sharing.
 

Turkey Track Bar

Well-known member
Thanks for the nice words about the pics...

Judith...yep you're right, Ug does look like a Hippo....however, I am sure there are none of those in our end of the world, as we generally end up hauling water because of our arid climate!

Jassy....lazy ace says Ug is our most photo'd cow-he's probably right. We'll have to start calling her Princess Ugly

Tap said:
The only thing is you set yourself up. If you calved on green grass old "croppy" would still have those ears. :lol: .

Hmmm Tapster....you sure? I think Princess Ugly was hatched in your "perfect environment" on a cold mid to late April day.

Tap said:
Figure out what time of the year "fits" the best for the closest to unassisted calving as possible, and do it then. Calve in large clean areas, and go ahead and get the calves tagged and weighed, but let the poor mothers weed themselves out and any cows with large teats go down the road. A cow should have a calf on her own, no excuses. Cows prefer to calve without human assistance, and the health is better for her offspring also if it is born on a dry grassy area.

I'm pretty sure her Mom calved on her own, in a large clean area, probably in a dry grassy area. Otherwise, she'd probably still have her ears! :wink: :lol: :nod: :p Just teasing ya...

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 

Turkey Track Bar

Well-known member
Tap:

I got to thinking about your post. You're right, if we calved in May or June, she'd likely have her ears....but I do think there was probably green grass around when she came into the world.

I will have to look back and see actually when she was born. I am thinking she might be a '97 model cow...which would explain a lot. We'll have some later born calves with short ears this year too. It's hard to remember but I think early April was pretty chilly!

You know it snowed, with significant accumulation not too far north of you and I last weekend!

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 

BRG

Well-known member
A few years back, we had a mid may calf loose his ears from a cold wet week. Surprised us some, but we also lost a calf from that cold. You can never out guess mother nature.

The photo with ugly, I believe your neighbor to the south of that pasture would be us and I have never seen any hippos up there. :lol: Some strange things, but never one of those. :D

It is nice to see a little grass in those photos this year. What a difference a year makes.
 

lazy ace

Well-known member
Tap wrote:
The only thing is you set yourself up. If you calved on green grass old "croppy" would still have those ears. .


Tap check out this link.

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9465&highlight=fun+week

I believe that was April 25 2006. Did you lose any ears during that storm?
:wink:

I also noticed you posted on a link to on windbreaks.

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14208&highlight=wind+break

Now why would you have to spend the money and time on 5 new wind breaks when you are range calving on green grass? :) :) :) I know the answer to that because I don't live that far from you.


Tap wrote:
Figure out what time of the year "fits" the best for the closest to unassisted calving as possible, and do it then. Calve in large clean areas, and go ahead and get the calves tagged and weighed, but let the poor mothers weed themselves out and any cows with large teats go down the road. A cow should have a calf on her own, no excuses. Cows prefer to calve without human assistance, and the health is better for her offspring also if it is born on a dry grassy area.


I am not trying to be an ars but when it comes down to it dead calves don't pay the bills. I fully believe that you run a good cow outfit and do what it takes to make a living at it.

have a cold one

lazy ace
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
I have a shirt tail relation who ranched with her husband for years, just south of Tap. Her sons still run the operation. They used to run a lot of sheep and lamb them in April/May.

I asked her one time, if they had sheds to lamb in. She told me "No."

I then asked what they did when they got a big spring blizzard. She replied, "We usually lose a lot of lambs."

She must have realized by the expression on my face, that I thought that was kind of odd, because she then added, "It's a lot less expensive to lose some lambs every 10 years or so than to build the shed to save them in and also the problems that come with shed lambing."

Don't get me wrong here, they did thier best to save everyone and never ever mistreated their stock.

At first, I thought that was somewhat of a hard ass attitude, but face it, there were lots of calves and lambs born in this country for years before we went to earlier calving and lambing and the use of calving/lambing sheds.

None of us like to lose stock to storms. But when it comes down to the cold hard facts, what will make you the most so you can survive and run stock for another year?

If a calving/lambing shed cost $50, 000 to build, how many calves/lambs do you need to save to pay for it?

A rancher in Wyoming had two different places and always had a hired man to calve out the older cows on the other ranch. He had to do it that way, he had no other option, besides selling the other place.

One year he couldn't find anyone, I mean no one, to calve that other bunch, so had to just let them calve on their own and check on them every once in awhile.

That spring he got a 95% calf crop, from the unattended cows. He got to figuring it up and when he had a man there he got 97% calf crop.

He never hired a man to calve for him again, because he said he couldn't afford to pay the wage for the extra 2% calf crop.

Hard ass? Maybe. But he's still ranching.

It ain't what they bring, it's how much they make you.

Another story about a rancher with a simlilar mindset.

He went to a sale and bought all new bulls of the continentl breed as he was told they would increase his paycheck.

the next spring one of his neighbors seen he had gone back to his old tried and true breed of vulls and asked him about it.

His reply was, "I bought them new bulls and they worked real good. I kicked them out in the breaks last fall and when I went to gather them this spring most of them was dead."

The neighbor asked if he had fed them any cake or even hay.

"Why? I never had to feed the other breed of bulls. They had plenty of grass and protection in the draws. I don't need that kind of cattle. I bought them cows to make a living for me, not for me to make a living for them!"

Maybe a bit extreme, but he's still ranchin' too.
 

Tap

Well-known member
lazy ace said:
Tap wrote:
The only thing is you set yourself up. If you calved on green grass old "croppy" would still have those ears. .


Tap check out this link.

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9465&highlight=fun+week

I believe that was April 25 2006. Did you lose any ears during that storm?
:wink:

I also noticed you posted on a link to on windbreaks.

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14208&highlight=wind+break

Now why would you have to spend the money and time on 5 new wind breaks when you are range calving on green grass? :) :) :) I know the answer to that because I don't live that far from you.


Tap wrote:
Figure out what time of the year "fits" the best for the closest to unassisted calving as possible, and do it then. Calve in large clean areas, and go ahead and get the calves tagged and weighed, but let the poor mothers weed themselves out and any cows with large teats go down the road. A cow should have a calf on her own, no excuses. Cows prefer to calve without human assistance, and the health is better for her offspring also if it is born on a dry grassy area.


I am not trying to be an ars but when it comes down to it dead calves don't pay the bills. I fully believe that you run a good cow outfit and do what it takes to make a living at it.

have a cold one

lazy ace

lazy ace, I don't know where to start with you. :roll: :wink: :)


No, we did not lose any ears during that storm last year. They were either dead or alive after it, but no frozen ears. It was 32 degrees during the whole storm.

Second, we did build some windbreaks, but windbreaks aren't only built for calving time. We do not want to screw with cattle too much during a storm, and we hope they blow into the windbreaks if they do not find other natural shelter.

I am sure most of this is in reference to my other post on seedstock operations, and it probably belongs there, but I will try again to explain myself.

Again, my other post was regarding how I think ranchers marketing bulls could help to improve their customers herds. I also said that I know all operations cannot fit that mold, but it still is how I feel about it. You tried to make a point that calving in mid April can still be prone to snow storms, but I do not really think calving then can be classified as calving on green grass. Maybe May 1 or later on most years would be, but even the first part of May can be tough weather sometimes. But that is arguing a minute point. Late calving does not work unless a ranch is managed as a low cost operation either. There is less input, but most of the time less return too. If we took a 10% calf loss once every ten years (which we have not), that would only lower our ten year average calf crop by 1%. I hate dead calves any time, but with less labor here, we have too many cows to calve them all in close. And the added sickness and work involved does not appeal to me anyway. I want to get our two's so that they can calve mostly on their own out on pasture, and we are nearly there. I guess that is why I like angus so well. Good genetics can be trouble free cattle.

If you want a better example of what I meant, then here is a better one.

We decided that when we expanded our ranch, that we should spread our risk out some, and calve one bunch of cows a little later. The last herd started calving around the 23 of April, give or take a few days. These are cows that were mostly purchased, and came from several different ranches, so there would be a better sample. We bred them to 3 hereford and 6 angus bulls last summer, turn in date July 15. Starting on Jan. 20th of this year we fed them 3# of 30% cake every other day till April 20th. So they were supplemented for 90 days, or 45 feedings. So at 200$/ton for the cake they had 13.50$ per head in them plus the cost of the fuel, pickup, etc... They also were fed a total of a third of a ton of hay per head, and I will value the hay at 60$/ton, which may sound low for last year, but it was pretty bad hay that was put up late last year. So that is 20$/cow for the hay. They were fed some salt too, but that could not even add up to a dollar a head/cow. So added up, the cost of the hay, cake, and salt would be 34.50$/cow for winter feed.

When the cows started calving we tried to see them every other day, but it got to be 3 or 4 or even 5 days when we were busy fencing, or helping at the neighbors. We have found just a few dead calves,(yes, I did say found on purpose, cause we may have missed something) and one dead cow. She died just recently with all 4 feet under her like lightning hit her, but it may have been calving problems, but I doubt it. For some reason the problems you encounter later on are just very few. I have heard several reasons for this like smaller calves, and cows being scattered out grazing are not knocking into each other and causing the calves to be abnormal presentations. Who knows, but I do know it is a fact that it is so. On our homeraised cows, we helped one cow out, and she would have had the calf, but the head was swollen and he would have been dead by the time she got him out. Not trying to pat ourselves on the back by any means, but trying to let others know how much fun life can be if you let it. :p :roll: :shock: :D :D If it worked in this herd, it can in others.

Be open minded my son. :eek: lol.

If you don't quit jabbing me, I will rescind my invitation to you to come over, and only invite TTB.

I might add more, but my brain is shot and my fingers are tired.
:? :wink:
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Tap said:
lazy ace, I don't know where to start with you. :roll: :wink: :)


No, we did not lose any ears during that storm last year. They were either dead or alive after it, but no frozen ears. It was 32 degrees during the whole storm.

Second, we did build some windbreaks, but windbreaks aren't only built for calving time. We do not want to screw with cattle too much during a storm, and we hope they blow into the windbreaks if they do not find other natural shelter.

I am sure most of this is in reference to my other post on seedstock operations, and it probably belongs there, but I will try again to explain myself.

Again, my other post was regarding how I think ranchers marketing bulls could help to improve their customers herds. I also said that I know all operations cannot fit that mold, but it still is how I feel about it. You tried to make a point that calving in mid April can still be prone to snow storms, but I do not really think calving then can be classified as calving on green grass. Maybe May 1 or later on most years would be, but even the first part of May can be tough weather sometimes. But that is arguing a minute point. Late calving does not work unless a ranch is managed as a low cost operation either. There is less input, but most of the time less return too. If we took a 10% calf loss once every ten years (which we have not), that would only lower our ten year average calf crop by 1%. I hate dead calves any time, but with less labor here, we have too many cows to calve them all in close. And the added sickness and work involved does not appeal to me anyway. I want to get our two's so that they can calve mostly on their own out on pasture, and we are nearly there. I guess that is why I like angus so well. Good genetics can be trouble free cattle.

If you want a better example of what I meant, then here is a better one.

We decided that when we expanded our ranch, that we should spread our risk out some, and calve one bunch of cows a little later. The last herd started calving around the 23 of April, give or take a few days. These are cows that were mostly purchased, and came from several different ranches, so there would be a better sample. We bred them to 3 hereford and 6 angus bulls last summer, turn in date July 15. Starting on Jan. 20th of this year we fed them 3# of 30% cake every other day till April 20th. So they were supplemented for 90 days, or 45 feedings. So at 200$/ton for the cake they had 13.50$ per head in them plus the cost of the fuel, pickup, etc... They also were fed a total of a third of a ton of hay per head, and I will value the hay at 60$/ton, which may sound low for last year, but it was pretty bad hay that was put up late last year. So that is 20$/cow for the hay. They were fed some salt too, but that could not even add up to a dollar a head/cow. So added up, the cost of the hay, cake, and salt would be 34.50$/cow for winter feed.

When the cows started calving we tried to see them every other day, but it got to be 3 or 4 or even 5 days when we were busy fencing, or helping at the neighbors. We have found just a few dead calves,(yes, I did say found on purpose, cause we may have missed something) and one dead cow. She died just recently with all 4 feet under her like lightning hit her, but it may have been calving problems, but I doubt it. For some reason the problems you encounter later on are just very few. I have heard several reasons for this like smaller calves, and cows being scattered out grazing are not knocking into each other and causing the calves to be abnormal presentations. Who knows, but I do know it is a fact that it is so. On our homeraised cows, we helped one cow out, and she would have had the calf, but the head was swollen and he would have been dead by the time she got him out. Not trying to pat ourselves on the back by any means, but trying to let others know how much fun life can be if you let it. :p :roll: :shock: :D :D If it worked in this herd, it can in others.

Be open minded my son. :eek: lol.

If you don't quit jabbing me, I will rescind my invitation to you to come over, and only invite TTB.

I might add more, but my brain is shot and my fingers are tired.
:? :wink:

Great presentation. And by someone who has seen both, in a given year.

One point I think most people forget about with a later calving herd, is the savings on winter feed.

Thanks for summing this up so well Tap.
 
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