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Oh, oh, Bush is wiretapping phones again....

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
...this will probably make the "left" pretty upset.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
There's already a tsunami of mild annoyance building in liberal circles. My how the times have changed.

If I was a cynic, which I'm not..........
 

Mike

Well-known member
I was going back thru the archives & reading about the left and their disdain for Bush on wiretapping. Some will say Bush "set the precedence", of course.

But Bush didn't seem to target those with opposing political ideologies.

Big difference in the Modus Operandi of this admin. Sleazy comes to mind.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Mike said:
I was going back thru the archives & reading about the left and their disdain for Bush on wiretapping. Some will say Bush "set the precedence", of course.

But Bush didn't seem to target those with opposing political ideologies.

Big difference in the Modus Operandi of this admin. Sleazy comes to mind.

Here's what the Magic Negro thinks of your concerns, Mike:
images1-2_zps8adcfbde.jpg
 

Mike

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
Mike said:
I was going back thru the archives & reading about the left and their disdain for Bush on wiretapping. Some will say Bush "set the precedence", of course.

But Bush didn't seem to target those with opposing political ideologies.

Big difference in the Modus Operandi of this admin. Sleazy comes to mind.

Here's what the Magic Negro thinks of your concerns, Mike:
images1-2_zps8adcfbde.jpg

Guess who wrote this:
Then you had his [Bush] totally tearing the Constitution apart and signing an order authorizing unwarranted wiretapping

The writer of the above says nothing about Obama's wiretapping even though his is for domestic & foreign use but Bush's was for suspicious overseas calls only. :roll:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Mike said:
Whitewing said:
Mike said:
I was going back thru the archives & reading about the left and their disdain for Bush on wiretapping. Some will say Bush "set the precedence", of course.

But Bush didn't seem to target those with opposing political ideologies.

Big difference in the Modus Operandi of this admin. Sleazy comes to mind.

Here's what the Magic Negro thinks of your concerns, Mike:
images1-2_zps8adcfbde.jpg

Guess who wrote this:
Then you had his [Bush] totally tearing the Constitution apart and signing an order authorizing unwarranted wiretapping

The writer of the above says nothing about Obama's wiretapping even though his is for domestic & foreign use but Bush's was for suspicious overseas calls only. :roll:

Well, to be fair to that poster, that was back when the constitution was precious. Today? Not so much.

Isn't it fun watching the hypocrites slowly twisting in the cool breeze out of Washington these days?
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
The National Security Agency has long justified its spying powers by arguing that its charter allows surveillance on those outside of the United States, while avoiding intrusions into the private communications of American citizens. But the latest revelation of the extent of the NSA’s surveillance shows that it has focused specifically on Americans, to the degree that its data collection has in at least one major spying incident explicitly excluded those outside the United States.

In a top secret order obtained by the Guardian newspaper and published Wednesday evening, the FBI on the NSA’s behalf demanded that Verizon turn over all metadata for phone records originating in the United States for the three months beginning in late April and ending on the 19th of July. That metadata includes all so-called “non-content” data for millions of American customers’ phone calls, such as the subscriber data, recipients, locations, times and durations of every call made during that period.

Aside from the sheer scope of that surveillance order, reminiscent of the warrantless wiretapping scandal under the Bush administration, the other shocking aspect of the order its target: The order specifically states that only data regarding calls originating in America are to be handed over, not those between foreigners.

“It is hereby ordered that [Verizon Business Network Services'] Custodian of Records shall produce to the National Security Agency…all call detail records or ‘telephony metadata’ created by Verizon for communications (i) between the United States and abroad; or (ii) wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls,” the Guardian’s copy of the order reads. “This Order does not require Verizon to include telephony metadata for communications wholly originating and terminating in foreign countries.”

Though the classified, top secret order comes from the FBI, it clearly states that the data is to be given to the NSA. That means the leaked document may serve as one of the first concrete pieces of evidence that the NSA’s spying goes beyond foreigners to include Americans, despite its charter specifically disallowing surveillance of those within the United States.

“In many ways it’s even more troubling than [Bush era] warrantless wiretapping, in part because the program is purely domestic,” says Alex Abdo, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Security Project.”But this is also an indiscriminate dragnet. Say what you will about warrantless wiretapping, at least it was targeted at agents of Al Qaeda. This includes every customer of Verizon Business Services.”

The leaked document, in fact, is labelled as an order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, a body whose powers were created under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 and then broadened after the September 11th, 2001 attacks, with the purpose of intercepting communications between foreign agents and those between enemies abroad and their agents within the U.S. Similarly, the NSA’s charter states that it focuses on interception and analysis of foreign communications, not those within the United States.

But the Verizon order seems to show that the NSA, using FISA, has specifically gathered communications data that both begins and ends with Americans. That domestic surveillance may be allowed under FISA’s low standard for the “relevance” of the data demanded from Internet companies and telephone carriers in the investigations of foreigners, says Julian Sanchez, a research fellow with the CATO Institute focused on privacy and civil liberties. ”The overall purpose of this program is to identify foreign terrorists,” says Julian Sanchez. “But in fact it extends well beyond whether the individual you’re investigating is foreign. If you think an American citizens’s email has information about what a foreign power or individual is doing, that’s ‘relevant.’ The purpose of the investigation is not a constraint on the target or the people from whom the information is sought.”

“If they data mine huge blocks of call records, they’re getting lots of innocent Americans’ data,” adds Sanchez, “But the argument, I imagine, is ‘we’re doing data mining to look for suspicious patterns to help us identify foreign terrorists.’”

My colleague Kashmir Hill has contacted the NSA and Verizon for comment, and I’ll update this post if we hear back from either of the two. Update: Verizon has declined to comment.

In fact, the Verizon order may be just a glimpse of a much larger surveillance program. It’s unclear whether other carriers, not to mention Internet giants like Google, Microsoft and Facebook, have been caught up in similar domestic surveillance, or how long that surveillance has been taking place. But as the Guardian notes, Senators Ron Wyden and Mark Udall have issued cryptic warnings for the last two years that the Obama administration has engaged in widespread surveillance of Americans.

Other phone carriers including AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint all responded to a congressional inquiry on government surveillance last year, stating that they had turned over hundreds of thousands of users’ records to law enforcement agencies, though that inquiry didn’t focus on intelligence agency requests.

In a congressional hearing in March of last year, the NSA’s Director Keith Alexander responded to questions from Georgia Congressman Hank Johnson, who brought up allegations of the NSA’s domestic spying made in a Wired magazine article earlier that month, denying fourteen times that the NSA intercepted Americans’ communications.

“What judicial consent is required for NSA to intercept communications and information involving American citizens?” Johnson asked at the time.

“Within the United States, that would be the FBI lead,” responded Alexander. “If it were a foreign actor in the United States, the FBI would still have to lead. It could work that with NSA or other intelligence agencies as authorized. But to conduct that kind of collection in the United States it would have to go through a court order, and the court would have to authorize it. We’re not authorized to do it, nor do we do it.”

In light of this latest leak and the surveillance it’s exposed, the NSA may have some more explaining to do.
 

Steve

Well-known member
“If they data mine huge blocks of call records, they’re getting lots of innocent Americans’ data,” adds Sanchez, “But the argument, I imagine, is ‘we’re doing data mining to look for suspicious patterns to help us identify foreign terrorists.’”

yep,... and those pesky TEA partiers, rightwingnuts, libertarians, patriots, vets, Christians..

well everyone really,... it is just an effort to get a decent list of folk to audit.. and see who needs a visit from the EPA,... and homeland security,.. fact is the fed is a bit bored ... so the growing goverment needs more "targets" to target... it's a either your with us or your against us battle and those at the fed want to know who the enemy is..
 

Tam

Well-known member
OReilly made a great point tonight If you can't trust the IRS to keep your private tax information out of the hands of your liberal enemies then how can you trust them to keep your cell phone information out of their hands. Romney's tax records were open season for Reid and others to claim he never paid any taxes so think of this how many Conservatives will be brought down by rumors of who they may or may not have used their cell phone to call?

But then if you can't trust them with your tax and cell phone info does any one really trust them to keep your health records private? The US government will have everything they need to bring down any domestic threat. In the liberal world that threat is anyone that opposes their Progressive agenda and they proved that with the IRS targeting Conservatives and leaking their info and the DOJ secretly seizing press phone records so they could intimidate anyone thinking about being a whistler blower to the media .

Their actions were shameful, wrong and illegal but you can bet nobody will pay the price as in Obama's World those that lie, cheat, punish his enemies and support his corrupt agenda are promoted. :mad:
 

Steve

Well-known member
Steve said:
if we no longer have a right to privacy..

then do woman have a right to an abortion?

The specific right of a woman to make the decision to terminate her own pregnancy is generally classified as a privacy right

Decided simultaneously with a companion case, Doe v. Bolton, the Court ruled 7–2 that a right to privacy

Powell also suggested that the Court strike down the Texas law on privacy grounds.

Right to privacy

The Court declined to adopt the district court's Ninth Amendment rationale, and instead asserted that the "right of privacy,

I guess you have to be in a protected class to have privacy rights...
 

Tam

Well-known member
Liberals have proven that TOP SECRET, PRIVATE, AND CONFIDENTUAL ONLY HAVE A MEANING WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO KEEP A LID ON THEIR CORRUPTION. Obama and his Administration go after whistleblowers if the leaked info hurts the public reputation of Obama but not if the leaking info helps Obama to SPIKE THE EGO BALL.

One of the groups that the IRS targeted by releasing their top donors list, containing names and addresses, to their liberal opponents so they could post them on their website and target the donors on the street, claimed when they asked for an investigation, they were told the IRS could not tell them who released their info due to TAX PRIVACY RULES. Where the hell was the TAX PRIVACY RULES when the liberal IRS agent was giving out their tax info to be used against them? :mad:

Six months ago a majority of people would never have thought the IRS and DOJ would have ever be used to target political opponents but yep the Liberals have stepped over that line. So the fact they are now collecting info on Americans cell phones and emails should scare everyone. Obama claims his system is different from the one Bush run as they would need a court order to actually look at your data but if they are not looking already how do they know who to target? And if anyone thinks the DOJ will not lie to get a court order to target them, I think they have not been paying attention to the DOJ Scandal story. Holder signed off on filing criminal charges on Rosen a member of the FOX press, to get a court order to seize his and even his parents phone records to see who he was talking to. Holder even claimed Rosen was a flight risk so the seizer of his records needed to be kept secret. Then he said in Congressional hearing testimony that he had never even heard of targeting and punishing members of the press for doing their jobs of reporting information given to them. So either he was lying to the judge to get the court order to get Rosen's records or he was lying to the Congress to cover up the fact he accessed info he had no legal right to get. Either way HE LIED and anyone thinking he will not do it again to get their records is purely DELUSIONAL
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Steve said:
Steve said:
if we no longer have a right to privacy..

then do woman have a right to an abortion?

The specific right of a woman to make the decision to terminate her own pregnancy is generally classified as a privacy right

Decided simultaneously with a companion case, Doe v. Bolton, the Court ruled 7–2 that a right to privacy

Powell also suggested that the Court strike down the Texas law on privacy grounds.

Right to privacy

The Court declined to adopt the district court's Ninth Amendment rationale, and instead asserted that the "right of privacy,

I guess you have to be in a protected class to have privacy rights...


This thread is about Pres. Bush and his wiretapping policies.

What does a uterus have to do with that?
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
NO ONE is listening to your phone calls.

Data mining and what happens under the Patriot Act, that everyone wanted renewed, is NOT eavesdropping.


But, the majority of the US citizens do not have the IQ levels to comprehend the difference.

But, Big Brother surely is watching this site...... :wink: :wink: :wink:

Smile, you're on Candid Camera!!!
 

VCC

Well-known member
ColonUraven, if we have not learned anything about the government no matter who is in charge, if there is smoke there is fire. Worst case scenarios seem to be what the cases turn out to be; very seldom does it turn out to be the lesser scenario.
What I do not get is how anyone could not begin to question how things are being run, the current administration is either getting very sloppy or they are pushing the envelope farther than it has been pushed before, I tend to think it is a case of both. All our rights are in jeopardy.
Can you truly believe that this administration is doing any of this for the people? I think not. They are doing everything they can to gain more and more power, and they do not care who they run over or destroy in the process.

You just keep defending everything they do and not questioning their motives, I’m sure everything will turn out just peachy for us all. It is kind of like on ostrich sticking it head in the sand and hoping for the best, makes it easy for the predator to finish the job.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
loomixguy said:
kolanuraven said:
NO ONE is listening to your phone calls.

Maybe not listening at the time of the call, but your calls are being recorded.


Your local phone company records the activity on your phone...that's how you get a bill!!!!

DUH!!!!

This IS NOT news.......
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Shoot up anymore cannisters that you bought from me to try and spite me,,,you paid for them and then acted like a spoiled kid when you didn't like something I said lol lol lol

P.S,. I have some more if you want to buy them for target practice :wink: :wink: :wink:
 
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