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Okay....Men speak out on this article.

katrina

Well-known member
Every time you turn around it seems there's another rah-rah story about the rise of the "alpha earner" wife -- women who bring home most of the bacon while their husbands happily shuttle the kids to and from soccer practice.

I am just such an alpha female, apparently -- as are all of the married members of the Women in Red -- and I'm tired of the pep rally.

What gets left out of the Norman Rockwell portrait of the new nuclear family is a muddy little truth no one wants to discuss: It's not easy being the breadwinner, and many women are having a hard time in that role.

Despite knowing that the man they were choosing to marry was not likely to become the primary earner, some women secretly harbor the wish that their spouse would start bringing home the bucks and support them for a change.

That's a problem. While I can understand feeling ambivalent about being the primary earner, especially when kids enter the picture, women who nurture Cinderella dreams put themselves in a financially precarious position.

The rise of the alpha earner
Take Anna. A hard-driving Washington, D.C., lobbyist who knew from the moment she met her struggling-actor husband that she always would be the breadwinner, she is still finding it hard to sort out her own expectations.

"The great thing about him is that he really doesn't care about money," says Anna, 42.

"On the flip side, the problem is that he doesn't care about money -- so I have to," she says. "That's a big burden."

It was a relief to hear Anna's unsparing take on what may no longer be a trend but a new world order.

It wasn't so long ago that my heart would race with pride and excitement when I heard upbeat statistics about women's earning prowess:

According to a 2003 survey by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, about a third of wives earn more than their husbands.

According to a study by the Families and Work Institute, a nonpartisan research organization in New York, women overall bring in 43% of household incomes.

I'm over that now. As the mother of a nearly two-month-old son whose husband is leaving his job to take on most of the child care and prep for graduate school, the title "breadwinner" has come to feel an awful lot like "albatross."

"We're in a significant transition," says Ellen Galinsky, director of the Families and Work Institute, acknowledging the difficulties many women face. "Women increasingly define their roles as both emotional provider and economic provider."



And yet it's hard to feel comfortable in that role when you're not sure what the rules are -- and neither is the person you're married to.

Where the girls are
I was surprised by how many women are grappling with this issue of role reversal and reversed expectations on the Women in Red message board.

What seems to work within the traditional male-as-breadwinner model doesn't translate when the family relies more on the woman's income.

As one reader wrote: "If you were paying all the bills, and when you got home your husband had the house clean, dinner ready and the kids all dressed/sleeping/whatever, maybe you wouldn't feel so badly about being the breadwinner. When you have to financially support your household … but then come home and cook/clean/take care of the kids, then it becomes too much to handle."

Of course, not all women feel that way. Of the Women in Red who are married -- Anna, Beth, Stephanie and I -- all are or were the primary earners. (Read more about each of them in "Meet the Women in Red.") But each woman brings a very different attitude to her situation

Beth: Like Anna and me, Beth, 40, was the primary earner in her relationship from the start -- and she enjoyed it. It has been hard for her to depend solely on her husband's salary during the year she has been in school studying massage therapy.

"It may sound weird, but I always felt that I needed to earn more in order to feel equal," she says.

When she gets her license early next year, Beth is looking forward to regaining her breadwinner status.

Stephanie: On the other hand, Stephanie, 28, is fighting the whole idea of being a breadwinner. She's thrilled that her career in marketing has taken off, but she hates the fact that her salary has outpaced her husband's.

When they started dating in college, it wasn't something she anticipated, but she knew when she agreed to marry him that he was working for a nonprofit organization.

Stephanie knows that she is more ambitious than he is, but she resents the fact that she bears the burden for most of their household expenses. "I wish he would earn at least $50,000 a year," she says.

Anna: Since their daughter was born two years ago, her husband has become the main caregiver. "I feel lucky that we can afford to do that," she says.

At the same time, she admits, she covers all the household expenses and cuts him a check for his needs, "and that part is uncomfortable," she says.

While Anna hopes he'll start working again once their daughter is in school, they haven't discussed that.

Right now, she's trying to cope with a more immediate issue -- one that preoccupies many women, especially when your income is larger: Who is responsible for the household chores?

Quoting the 1970s perfume commercial that featured a do-it-all working wife singing, "I can bring home the bacon/And fry it up in a pan . . . ," Anna points out: "They never told you that you end up serving the bacon and cleaning the pan, too."

: And then there's me. Despite the fact that my husband does the lion's share (or is it the lioness' share?) of the domestic duties -- and I count my blessings that he doesn't resent the fact that my career, right now, is more lucrative -- I am a conflicted mess of gratitude, pride and steaming resentment.

To the outside world, we probably look like the storybook version of a spunky female career gal who falls for the supersmart artsy guy -- and together (cue the harps and a nice big sunset) they make it all work!

But in reality, I guess I was kinda sorta hoping this arrangement would be temporary.

The high cost of financial-emotional turmoil
And as we all know -- or at least, those of us who have been writing and reading the WIR columns faithfully know -- the only trouble with having really huge unresolved emotional issues is that sooner or later they're gonna cost you.

So while you could argue that there's nothing wrong with feeling ambivalent about being the major source of income in your household, the peril for women is when the confusion, resentment, uncertainty, hostility, anger, denial or Prince Charming fantasy causes women to fumble the financial ball.

In wishing, even for one stupid second, that my husband earned six figures, I'm dodging the fact that if anyone is going to earn big bucks, it's going to be me. And, as they said in "Cool Hand Luke," I'd better get my mind right about that, or I really will dig myself into a big ol' hole by waiting and hoping that it's not really my job.

Although Anna is the most matter-of-fact about her breadwinner status, she hates being the one to initiate all of the difficult money talks. Alas, She Who Earns usually ends up being She Who Plans. And unless Anna is OK with her husband remaining unemployed after their daughter starts school -- and what that unemployment might mean for their retirement savings -- she will have to put on her chin guard and insist on a clearer career strategy.

As much as Stephanie would like her husband to be on an equal financial footing, or close to it, she'd do better to insist that the two of them get more in sync about how they spend and save the money they earn now.

Keep these fundamentals front and center
We could spend hours debating the emotional nuances of what it means -- for feminism? for the family? -- that the male-as-breadwinner species may be as endangered as the two-toed sloth. But in order to find and keep your financial sanity as a female breadwinner, you have to accept a few basic laws of nature:

You're in charge. This doesn't mean you and your partner can't share equally in financial decisions, but you need to accept the fact that you will probably be the one to initiate most discussions, monitor how your money is organized and orchestrate your financial future.

Clarify roles and expectations. Given that female breadwinners lack for role models, you have to start with what you've got -- and improvise. That means sitting down with your spouse and expressing what your ideas and expectations are for everything from spending to laundry -- and likewise listening to his.

Squash those fairy tale fantasies. You can't be CFO and Cinderella at the same time. If you are the main provider, it's unlikely your mate will be taking care of you financially anytime soon. After all, how many men marry women hoping they will switch roles as breadwinner at some point?

Ask for what you need. You don't have to be superwoman. Just be clear in your own mind what you want from him -- emotional support, a little more help around the house, more time with the kids -- and ask for it. You may not always get it, but you'll never get it if you don't ask.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
:oops: I'm not a man but wanted to make a point. We have a wonderful female Dr. in our area,shes youngish,just ready to have her second baby. She'll take a short time off then her hubby will take over the primary child raising,this is what they agreed to upon marriage.They are very happy this way and we all have access to this awesome Dr. NOTHING wrong with that :!:
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
When I heard from my hubby, after my parents and I bought a new farm,
" Well...if we divorce you better get used to living near me cause I'll take my half right out of the middle of this place".


Needless to say the clock starting counting down @ that moment for him...and he was put out the door. This was after 9 years of me paying for his college ( that he never finished or used)....2 or 3 new vehicles...and lots of ' stuff' he could not live without :roll: :roll: . Never helping out on the farm or with chores. I had myself a leech!!

The operative word here is " had"!! Divorce was the best thing that could have happened for me!!! Happy days ever since!!! :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol:
 

ranchwife

Well-known member
"Stephanie" wishes her hubby made $50,000 a year???!!!???!!! Heck, wish the hubby and I made that COMBINED!!! Some folks just honestly do not understand what it's like to have NOT MUCH!! Yes, it is difficult to put in a 13 hour day and come home to a family whose first question in the door is "Mom....we're hungry...What's for dinner?"...then bathe the kids, help with homework, finish laundry, do dishes and get my uniform ready...all between the hours of 8 p.m. and 10 p.m.!! But.....we each choose our paths in life and I am living in mine!! :cry: :cry: Guess I should stop whining....as should Stephanie!! :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

nr

Well-known member
The article briefly touched on changing expectations. Don't you think that would be a predictable problem for both husb. and wife since even after we marry we continue to change, grow, add new goals? What seemed like a good idea in their 20s could get really old in their 30s when people often swing back to tradition.
 

Judith

Well-known member
Kola,

That is unbelieveable! That is exactly what happened to me! I sent him to school for 8 years, worked 60 hour weeks and took care of our son and the home. (all cooking and chores) and then because I was distant he ended up having an affair! I wasnt flipping distant , I was tired and half dead! I lost half of everything in the divorce due to the fact I was the primary care giver. Now he has his 100,000 a year fancy tech job and I stuggle to make his spousal support! I will be going back to court in 6 months to "adjust" his support but wow! What ever happened to the good guys! I know they are out there but seriously I have no interest in going through this ever again. My ponies and my baby boy are all I need!
 

TimH

Well-known member
Glad to see that Red Robin was the 1st man(idiot) to to respond. I'll be the second idiot(man).
I'm sorry about the women who married "human" sponges. I do not dispute that because I have seen it first hand. I have a brother or two that are perfect examples.
But it does work both ways. My 1st wife was one.
My wage went to pay the mortgage,groceries and bills and her's was her own to blow on clothing, makeup, booze,drugs and as I eventually found out... a "human sponge" boyfriend.
Good riddance and she deserved him.
Mathematics and health reasons dictated that I was the bread winner with my 2nd wife. It is an arrangement that we have both been happy with for 20+ years.
The key is to never take each other for granted and to walk a mile in each other's shoes.
I'll get down off my apple box now!!!! :D
 

Canadian_Cowgirl

Well-known member
wow, look what i have to look forward to! so how do u pick the "right man" or is there such a thing? haha i no alot of people whos marriges didnt work out, and all my moms friends tell me not to get married it screws everything up and the sex is no good! haha is that all true?
 

andybob

Well-known member
I have always been the 'breadwinner' we were raised in a more traditional society, so it was expected that the husband support the family' with two disabled children, my wife has had the harder job!
We are an equal team in every way in all other aspects, although with only 28 years of marriage we still have to get over the honeymoon period.
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
Canadian_Cowgirl said:
wow, look what i have to look forward to! so how do u pick the "right man" or is there such a thing? haha i no alot of people whos marriges didnt work out, and all my moms friends tell me not to get married it screws everything up and the sex is no good! haha is that all true?
The right man :) If you find a person thats willing to work as hard at marriage as you are THATS the right person :!:

As for the sex not being good..guess you'll have to figure that out on your own,when your old enough and even more important,mature enough.

How old are you Canadian Cowgirl,if you want to share that :wink:
 

Judith

Well-known member
Canadian Cowgirl,

There are good really men out there. I know!!!!I have two brothers and a Daddy who are amazing men. As for picken em right you never can tell. I dated mine for two years and thought I had picked really well. But Looking back there were warning signs that I refused to see. The biggest one: out of his 5 siblings each and every single one is on the 3rd or 4th marriage? :shock: That should have been a huge red flag, but naively ( as I come from a family with no history of divorce) I thought that if I just loved him and supported his dreams enough we would be the ones in the family that made it. That was a short coming in myself. I should not have been so arrogant. Apples will never and can never be oranges. I could have worked the opposite way too, I know many people who come from divorced homes that try harder!, They do not want to ever be divorced.
 

PPRM

Well-known member
Canadian_Cowgirl said:
wow, look what i have to look forward to! so how do u pick the "right man" or is there such a thing? haha i no alot of people whos marriges didnt work out, and all my moms friends tell me not to get married it screws everything up and the sex is no good! haha is that all true?

Nope,


The sex actually gets better...But we pratice lots with each other, LOL,


PPRM
 

Canadian_Cowgirl

Well-known member
[/quote]Nope,


The sex actually gets better...But we pratice lots with each other, LOL,


PPRM[/quote]


wow i must say TMI!!!!! lol but practice makes perfect(so im told) :wink:
 

Gulchrider

Well-known member
Gonna stick my neck out here: I would say that a gal should take a long look at her father-in-law to be. His influence has been a great part of your future hubby's learning process. Is his dad a hard worker? Is he a kind and caring man? Learn his attitudes about different things that could be sticky points between the two of you. If you could live with his father, then you, most likely can live with him.
As to the earning power; I think that if the female part of the marriage is working longer hours, then the male counterpart should pick up more of the household chores. Housework, taking care of the kids, running after groceries, and so on. Financial decisions should be one hundred percent even between the two. Remember, even though one person makes the majority of the income, the financial stuff effects both parties equally, usually. Just because one partner makes fifty grand a year, and the other makes fifteen, doesn't mean that the fifty-grand partner can just go out and bring home a new Mercedes. The other partner will feel the effects of the extra car payment as well.
JMHO
Gulchy
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
'Looking at the father-in-law' is pretty sound advice, IMO.
As I read that I thought of the parallels between my husband
and his father. The older Mr. FH gets, the more like his father
he is. Luckly, both are good men.

We do have one little bone of contention after all these years,
I want to travel a bit, and I can't get Mr.FH
interested in doing that. Guess we should have discussed that
43 years ago!!!!!!!!!! :p :shock: :wink:

Anyway, I'm going to figure out how to go places on my own.
Any ladies want to join me? :wink:
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
There are things about my father and me that are very, very similiar and than there are things about him that we couldn't be more different... I do have to admit that I have to fight his influence a bit as a father and a husband as his ideas of both don't really mesh with what my wife wants or needs.. Of course, he had to fight his tendancies from his father as well who was/is not exactly a kids person or a few other things as well... What creeps my wife out the most is to watch my brother and I talk and how we sit and gesture and even move our mouths and posture are dead ringers for my dad... Wife told me I had to keep a beard because otherwise I look to much like my Dad.. Kind of insulted as in I have a little more hair and my nose isn't that big but than I saw a picture of him when he was 30 years old straight on... I'll be keeping the beard :lol:


But we are very different in so many ways, he is a corporate guy, army guy who loves to travel and go all over the world as that is what he has done for all 65 years of his life. Meanwhile I enjoy road trips (which he hates) and staying close to home and I would die in corporate America.. He thinks its nuts that I chose this lifestyle and I tell him it would have been nuts for me not too.. Oh well, overall I have learned a few things about Dad as I have gotten older and I understand him a bit more than I did when I was a kid.
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Mrs. and I have been together for 28 years. She was raised more by her gramma than her mother. Her mom went thru several marriages, and moved around a lot. So she wanted stability and one husband. I think everytime I've screwed up, she just compares me to what her mother and grandmother had, and feels lucky.

We talked a lot about what we wanted out of life and what we were willing to do to have it. I told her we would never live in a town, except for a short time to make enough to live in the country and she agree'ed. I also told her we would probabvly never be rich or live fancy. So far, I haven't lied to her about that or anything else!

We are very honest with one another and our marriage is not 50/50. It's a lot of 90/10 that gets switched back and forth. Sometimes she's putting in the 90 % and sometimes I'm putting in the 90%.

As to finding a mate, even if you are not into reading the bible, go look up what Paul wrote about love. It's all very true. Find someone who agrees with you about that and the main things in life and then both be prepared to work at it and you will be fine.

And please don't base people on looks. So many people I've known all my life have changed in appearence. Some of the girls who seemed a little plain when they were younger are now, 30 years later, quite beautiful and the same for the men. Also, some of the ones who were considered very good looking when they were younger, are not thought of as good looking, now.

Beauty truely does come from inside and is not on the outside. As Ray Stevens sang, "everyone is beautiful, in their own way".

And do look at the father in law to be, but also talk about the relationship the son had with the faher. I am very much like my father in many ways, but also, because I didn't like some of the things he did or ways he approached things, caused me to make sure I didn't do the same. The same holds true with my wife and her mother.

Any 2 people can live together, if they both want to.

Face it, when people split up, it's because they wanted to. Either one wants it and makes it so miserable for the other that they agree, or both think that they can do better. Sadly, in my experience, many do not do better, the second or third or even fourth time around. Those who do, go into the next marriage with a better attitude and idea of who and what they want for a lifelong mate.

Of course, my wife always says she won't divorce me, as insuraqnce pays better than alimony. :shock:

:wink:

Whew, hope you didn't get tired of reading this as bad as I did typing it!

:lol: :lol:

Oh, and PPRM is right. Practice makes perfect. And it is something you need to discuss and keep talking about, over the years, frankly and openly. A marriage isn't for prudes. :lol:
 
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