Old ponds and drinkers

[Cows and Sows]

Hello to ALL. Have been a reader for a long time, first post. I hope you can help with my problem and question.

I own two farms in N-E Missouri, both have ponds on them to control soil erosion and water livestock. Over the years with an ageing owner, then lazy tenants cattle have been allowed to drink directly from the pond which has caused the pipes to become plugged with soil.

I need to get these pipes unplugged and new drinkers installed and the ponds fenced off.

My Question is, could i hook my Ingersol Rand 185 CFM air compressor up to the outlet of the pipe and blow compressed air back to remove the mud so hopefully the water will flow again? Was given a estimate of $5000.- to dig out the dam push the mud out and rebuild. That didn't include any plumbing or drinker work. I'm a do it yourself type and thought that there must be a cheaper way than that. Are these pipes installed at an angle through the dam or do they have a elbow and a riser pipe. Could I run a sewer snake up the pipe to clean it?
I live in N-W Illinois so its a six hour drive to get there, so I need to have a plan before leaving.

I would bet these were SCS/NRCS/FSA (what ever there called today) cost share ponds, were there ever any design plans explaining there construction available?

Thank You for any ideas and help!

 

[George]

I would hook up a water pump and air compressor if possible - - - if you can apply about 60 PSI of water pressure going backwards and then have the air compressor hooked into a "T" at about double the pressure you will cause turbulence and scrub the inside of the pipe clean.

If you can get a backhoe after you have located the intake remove sediment from the inside of the dam - - - you do not need to get real close to the intake as you do not want to hit it. The sediment around the intake will settle away from it if you give it room.

Good luck - - - I have done this several times with positive results.

 

[George]

On the rebuilding - - - I redid the 10 acre pond at "Jellystone" Campground in Knightstown about 5 years ago - - - pumped the pond dry and hauled out the 30 years of sediment then let it refill - - - much cheaper than it would have cost to cut and rebuild the dam. The dam was in good shape - - - I also dug a 1/2 acre sediment basin the water flows into and has to build to 10 feet before going thru a 24" culvert into the large pond. Now the sediment basin can be cleaned easily every few years and the main pond will stay much cleaner.

 

[Cows and Sows]

Thank You George for the hands on response.

I was going to plumb the compressor to the outlet and hopefully see bubbles coming from the intake, maybe remove enough mud to work again.

What was the size of the pipe you were working with. I was reading on the NRCS site about 1-1/2 pipe, sounds easy to clean.

Thanks again.

 

[Silver]

I think it would be a lot easier to pump water than air. If your line is dirty and restricted I'd run a pig through it with water behind.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Just feed a water line from a pressure washer up the line, with a zero degree nozzle. That will blast a hole in hard dirt it should clean out a line full of mud.

 

[Brad S]

That hydraulic clean out makes sense - see what that ol rough neck lil joe sez

 

[Cows and Sows]

http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/Images/MTM-Hydro-17.0851/i10737.html

Is what you are calling a pig?

Never thought about the gas powered pressure washer for the job, and that can ride in the back of the pick-up.

Can someone describe this piping system to me, size, type, is there a 90 degree elbow at the base of the dam? I'm sure NRCS would have specs on how this was done? just looking for ideas to take materials with.

Thank You.

 

[George]

The pipe the neighbor to the south has is plumbed with 1" pipe which I feel is part of the problem - - - It gets plugged with moss which is easy to blow out but I feel if 2" or larger was used the incidence of plugging would be much less.

A pasture to the east I used to rent had a 2" pipe and while the run was much longer ( about 150" ) it normally stayed clean. Both are reduced to a short length of 3/4" that hooks to a float - - - I have a 1" galvanized "T" that I screw on the end replacing the float hook up with water running straight thru and air with a ball valve coming in from the side. I start the water pump and normally with 60# of pressure the flow will start then turn on the air at about 120# and the turbulence will really break everything loose. Sometimes it takes the air to get things moving but I still let both water and air run for about 5 minutes as I want everything clean so I don't have to come back very often.

I have never gone down to see the inlets but I think both are just open pipes that were installed several feet above the bottom. I'm sure a pressure washer would break things loose but I wonder if you could get enough flow to scrub the pipe? The ones we use are 4,000 PSI at 4 Gal Per Minute - - - If I get something my hook-up does not clear I might try the pressure washer - - - I can be trained!

We developed a spring for my son and ran 2" for about 450 feet - - - I have a stainless steel strainer from a sprayer at the pickup end and keep the sediment cleaned out and have not had a plug in about 10 years - - - we do clean the spring about every 2 years - - - takes about 5 minutes with a backhoe. We let this run full flow all year and pipe the over flow to a county roadside ditch - - - never has frozen so far!

On the pasture I used to rent in cold weather we would remove the float and replace with a 1/4" pipe to keep the water from freezing - - - a little mess down slope but cattle could get water. If I was to rent it again I would tile the excess away.

 

[Silver]

http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/Images/MTM-Hydro-17.0851/i10737.html

Is what you are calling a pig?

Thank You.

No, I'd call that a creeper tip. They work very well for cleaning or thawing lines as well. You can put that on the end of your pressure washer hose and it will pull itself through your water line cleaning as it goes. You are limited only by the length of your pressure hose.

A pig is an object you stuff in a line and force through to the other end by in this case water pressure. Foam pigs will go around tight corners and fit through tight spaces if they have to.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/Images/MTM-Hydro-17.0851/i10737.html

Is what you are calling a pig?

Never thought about the gas powered pressure washer for the job, and that can ride in the back of the pick-up.

Can someone describe this piping system to me, size, type, is there a 90 degree elbow at the base of the dam? I'm sure NRCS would have specs on how this was done? just looking for ideas to take materials with.

Thank You.

I bet that nozzle would work, just screw it on because if you use a quick connect they can release when you push the hose in and let the nozzle pop out, Don't ask me how I know.

 

[sandhiller]

I would say that it will be to plugged to force air through.
Water and possibly air through a pipe pushed up the outlet pipe will wash it out. I Would consider using pex tubing to run up the pipe. Good luck on there not being a elbow at the end.

On tank overflows i put in now, i use pvc electrical conduit sweep elbows & sometimes 2 45° elbows instead so that i can wash them out if needed. On the intake, cover it with preforated sewer pipe (not sure it is still avaiable) for a screen. Preforated drain tile will plug with moss.

Why would he want to take out the dam? Why not pump or syphon the water out?

 

[George]

I took some pictures of the tank I put in for my son. When he got married there was an old rusted out tank about 12' in diameter and about 5' deep buried about 1/2 way with an old galvanized pipe. My daughter-in-law's great grand father had put it in many decades ago taking advantage of a spring up on the hill. The cattle had to wade belly deep mud any time they wanted to drink so most would drink from the muddy foot prints at the edge of a 50' diameter swamp leading to the tank.

First we replaced the old pipe, then dug the swamp out and laid 3 tri axle loads of old broken sidewalk down and pulled dirt back over. You can see a couple of pieces of concrete peeking out in places. Then we buried a fiberglass tank about 8" to make it easy for calves to drink. Water flows 24/7 and while they do not have as much drinking area with no mud over 2" they walk right up and get fresh clean water - - - with that flow there is never any ice and it is cool all summer.



To get rid of the excess I drilled a hole and ran an over flow into the roadside ditch.



It might not look like much but the 2" pipe is flowing over 1/2 full - - - my son's father in law drives a school buss and the crushed stone makes a great parking place. We put the fence panel so that the cattle cannot get to any of the pipes and cause us problems. This has been in about 10 years and the only thing we do is clean the sediment out of the spring every few years.

 

[burnt]

Good work George. A spring like that is valuable indeed.

The farm where my Dad was born and raised had a spring-fed concrete water trough, about 10' in diameter and as old as the hills. A 1" pipe on a sand point, right beside the tank, flowed into it with the coldest water you can imagine.

For many years that trough had 2 main purposes - it watered the cattle and kept the milk cans cool all year round. Then the dairy farmers had to go to bulk coolers and the trough only had the cows and curious little boys to satisfy.

 

[George]

In this area if I want water any where I can take the backhoe, dig a flat bottom ditch back into a hill - - - on most hills I look for about a 45 degree slope so if I get 20 feet back into the hill I will be close to 20 feet deep.

Take a plastic 55 gal barrel and drill many 1/2" holes into it, then drill a 3 1/2" hole close to the bottom to insert a 3" pvc pipe which I lay on the bottom of the trench, back-fill the barrel and most of the bottom of the trench with #4 crushed limestone to help kill bacteria and run the pipe to a tank, I have found cast iron bathtubs last forever and can be bought cheap at a scrap yard. The cast iron bath tubs already have a hole in the side for over flow that can then be tiled on down.

Total cost less than $100.00 plus the crushed stone and about 2 hours of backhoe time. One I put in in 1972 is still working but in 1972 I had never heard of plastic barrels so I used an old galvanized water heater tank and galvanized pipe. Every time it rains the hill gets recharged and the flow will be sufficient for at least 30 head of brood cows! Rarely will one ever freeze, but in blowing snow they can be lost under a drift several feet deep as the snow will build up on the hillside!

A little work and you can really improve the productivity of your ground!