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Oldtimer, Econ, etc.

Red Robin

Well-known member
It didn't take long for the fools you wanted elected to spout off something stupid. Rangle wants to restart the draft, including women. He's a MORON! That's the last thing we need. How do you feel about your party now?
The trouble is , now he actually isn't just a talking fool, he's in power.

By the NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story...


Sunday, Nov. 19, 2006 8:24 p.m. EST
Sen. Rangel Wants to Reinstate Draft

WASHINGTON -- Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 under a bill the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee says he will introduce next year.

Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars.

"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.

Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, has said the all-volunteer military disproportionately puts the burden of war on minorities and lower-income families.
Rangel said he will propose a measure early next year. While he said he is serious about the proposal, there is little evident support among the public or lawmakers for it.

In 2003, Rangel proposed a measure covering people age 18 to 26. It was defeated 402-2 the following year. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42; it went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.

Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the Nov. 7 election.

At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel, who also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq. "I think to do so is hypocritical."

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.

"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.
Rangel, the next chairman of the House tax-writing committee, said he worried the military was being strained by its overseas commitments.

"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," Rangel said.

He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.

Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military "represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background."

Repeated polls have shown that about seven in 10 Americans oppose reinstatement of the draft and officials say they do not expect to restart conscription.

Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told Congress in June 2005 that "there isn't a chance in the world that the draft will be brought back."

Yet the prospect of the long global fight against terrorism and the continuing U.S. commitment to stabilizing Iraq have kept the idea in the public's mind.

The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. An agency independent of the Defense Department, the Selective Service System, keeps an updated registry of men age 18-25 — now about 16 million — from which to supply untrained draftees that would supplement the professional all-volunteer armed forces
 

Steve

Well-known member
Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 under a bill the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee says he will introduce next year.

how is this "new"....?

currently all american males must register...for the selective service.....

are they just going to call it a draft reigistration to "scare" people ?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Just because Charlie Rangel says something doesn't mean its going to happen...He says a 100 different ignorant things a week...At least 10 or 20 every time he appears with O'Reilly :roll: .....

And I'll bet it we looked back we could find several 100 idiot things some Republican has said in the last 6 years- and even tho they controlled both the Congress and the White House that didn't mean it came to be...
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
Well, it would add women to it instead of just males for one... Also, he is talking about actually doing it which will mmost likely never happen as it won't get any support, he was one of only two folks who voted for it last time. No one wants it except a very few amount of people.. But I woul agree, I think most of this is posturing as he KNOWS it doesn't stand a chance in heck of getting passed.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I was still in college the night of the great draft "lottery" of the 60's...I think it had to equal close to New Years Eve for liquor sales in those college towns :roll: :lol: I know we had about 30 people over to the house that night- and altho the details are slightly hazy, as I remember it the party lasted for about week...Some partied to celebrate, some like one of my roommates who had the number 15 drawn, partied to drown his sorrows......I got a number like 265, so I just chased women for the week.... :D :)
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I was still in college the night of the great draft "lottery" of the 60's...I think it had to equal close to New Years Eve for liquor sales in those college towns :roll: :lol: I know we had about 30 people over to the house that night- and altho the details are slightly hazy, as I remember it the party lasted for about week...Some partied to celebrate, some like one of my roommates who had the number 15 drawn, partied to drown his sorrows......I got a number like 265, so I just chased women for the week.... :D :)

My number was 119, and the plan was to draft everyone with a lottery number less than 125. I decided to enlist in the National Guard.
 

IL Rancher

Well-known member
I wasn't born yet and by the time I was born the draft was over.. Now I am old enough that selected service doesn't have a card on me anymore.. Back in the 60's Dad was already in the Army as he did ROTC to pay his way through The University of Iowa.. Spent some time stationed in Georgia, some in North carolina, some in California, a spell in Germany and 2 tours in Nam before he finally decided that it was time to say enough is eough.. 7 years I think in all, Mom almost killed him when he reuped before even saying hello after his first tour. .. Told me la few years back when I was struggling with what I wanted to do with my life that the reason he reupped was becasue he had no clue what he wanted to do and he was 27-28 years old at the time....

Talked to my neighbor today about this... He went down and did his physical and everything for the draft and was getting ready to enlist (His brother already was serving).. His Dad had a heartattack and passed away and he ened up with a deferment as he had to take over the farm...
 

SHORTSTUFF

Well-known member
I cant belive I'd agree with Rangle, but I think we should reinstate the draft.Although not for nearly the same reasons.
The draft give young men a reason to get off their duff if they had no other reason. They either had to go to school and stick with it or get drafted and learn some real lessons.
I spent my time in the guard and somehow feel that I let my friends down who went to Vietnam, if I could do it over I'd go regular ARMY. My son just returned from Iraq and will have to go back agian soon if the politics dont change things on that front.
Many of these kids today have no reason to care or even get out of bed in the morning, the draft is incentive,one way or the other.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
No body asked me.....but here's my thought.

All kids who graduate highschool......serve 2 yrs after that in some branch of the service.......after the 2 yrs of service & no problems encountered let the gov't ( us) pay for 2 yrs of college for that kid.

After the 2 yrs of college IF they want to go back into the service....bring them in at a good pay level and rank. OR....if they go on into civilian life...they alrady have 2 yrs of college under their belt and 2 yrs less of college debt.

I've always said that would be one of the best investments EVER made into our future.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Rangle is seeing it as way to slow down the quick trigger to war.

I believe only about 3 " Congress'" persons/people have any relations involved in the present war/conflicts.

As per the norm....it's the reg working class folks who end up doing the heavy lifiting .
 

Mike

Well-known member
One major problem with the draft.................

You will then have an abundance of people in the military that really don't want to be there.

Generally speaking, the volunteer system is not that way.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
There is no way women should be drafted but at the same time rich boys with political connections should not be given low risk, high paying commisions away from any possible chance of action.
Also National gaurd, Coast gaurd, etc should be made up of mainly people who are to old say 26 and older. Able bodied men of military age should not be able to use it to avoid regular combat service. These jobs should be reserved if possible for disabled combat Vets if they want the jobs. I know a disabled vet that did just exactly that so he wouldnt get pushed out of the service completely.
At the very least, kids who drop out of school should be drafted into the army and educated there until they are old enough for combat.
Why should rich kids be able to kill time in college until the war is over? Make them go into service. After the war they go back and study liberal arts or whatever.
Since landowners bennifit the most from a nation there is no way theyu should be exempt.
What really erks me is that some people try so hard to go into the service and they cant get in. I know one guy in Canada who 22 years ago tried to enlist and they told him he was to young so he waited a few years and then they told him he wasnt educated enough. Then he tried to join the South African Army when everybody else was fleeing the country and it looked like civil war but the SA consulate in Ottawa made it there life mission to prevent him from doing so. Then he tried to join the US army in Gulf War #1 and was told he wasnt needed.
Another person I know was in Canadas first airborn <most elite special forces that we had up here>and they disbanded the unit after Samolia and kicked him out of the services :roll:
Then others try to avoid service and cant get away from it :roll:
Here is an idea. If you dont want to go into combat trying acting like you really want to go into combat.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
One thing with the military and the war that torks me off-- the pay and benefits for the military are no where comparable to the pay of the workers that are going to Iraq working for the private companies like Halliburton etal that are contracting to the government/military and spending taxpayer dollars like water over there....

Yep- driving truck for Halliburton in Iraq is hazardous, so they are probably worth the $200,000 a year they can pull down-- but no more than a grunt driving a truck or clearing out a group of Syrian terrorists....

Its all tax money- I'd just as soon give it to the guy that signed up for a committment to serve his country....But then the Halliburtons of the world couldn't take their rakeoff's and all the Politicians stock wouldn't be worth as much :wink: :( :mad:
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Yup up here they give State funerals for politicians but the same politicians dont want to spring for a State funeral for Canads last WW1 Vet.
How about giving higher pensions for medal reciprients? Its only medal of honour recipients that get a misserable little pension I think its something like $1200 a year. Other medals dont pay anything that I know of.
BTW OT I put most of the blame for this mess in Iraq on Haliburton. There were much better options than doing what was done but by going in and trying to occupy it was the best way to benifit Haliburton.
I wish to God that there was some way of forceing the ones who have bennifited the most from stupid decisions of Bush to actually have to do their part and send there kids into combat :mad:
But for the most part its the ones who bennifit the l;east from society the ones who dont own a bunch of land, who dont have a fancy education who have to do the grunt work :mad:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
RoperAB said:
Yup up here they give State funerals for politicians but the same politicians dont want to spring for a State funeral for Canads last WW1 Vet.
How about giving higher pensions for medal reciprients? Its only medal of honour recipients that get a misserable little pension I think its something like $1200 a year. Other medals dont pay anything that I know of.
BTW OT I put most of the blame for this mess in Iraq on Haliburton. There were much better options than doing what was done but by going in and trying to occupy it was the best way to benifit Haliburton.
I wish to God that there was some way of forceing the ones who have bennifited the most from stupid decisions of Bush to actually have to do their part and send there kids into combat :mad:
But for the most part its the ones who bennifit the l;east from society the ones who dont own a bunch of land, who dont have a fancy education who have to do the grunt work :mad:

Older men declare war. But it is the youth that must fight and die. ~Herbert Hoover

Draft Beer - Not People ~ a voice of the 60's

I supported this war from day one...I think it was something the free world needed to do- it just saddens me that so much of that free world turned away from their obligations... I still believe that if all the countries of the free world had moved against Iraq we wouldn't have the amount of involvement as is now coming out of Syria and Iran....

I still support the war- but I'm starting to get hinky feelings about it....Its starting to appear to be micromanaged by whatever the press, the civilians, the peacemongers, the foreign governments, etc. are saying-- We're seeing solders being charged with crimes for events that happen during war- more and more shoot/don't shoot, can't engage until engaged orders - more we can bomb this area, but not go near that area rules... Just the same as we saw in Vietnam/Laos/Thailand....

War ain't pretty- folks dying ain't pretty...And civilians or unintentional/accidentally identified targets will be injured and killed-- and we shouldn't be making our troops have to make sure the person (man or woman or child) is packing his terrorist union card before he can shoot him....Kids packed bombs in Vietnam-kids killed troops in Nam and I'm sure they're doing the same here with these nutcases...The only press allowed in should be those living with the troops and getting shot at and blown up- definitely would give them a new outlook on what they want to report....

Either we actually fight a war- and take out whatever target presents itself--be they mosques storing weapons , or be they training camps or arms supplys in Syria or Iran or wherever-- or we get out- you can't start pussyfooting around and actually fight a war.....
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
The best way to fight a war is claim ground, raise a flag and defend it. Make everyone within the undisputed border , live by the laws of the newly established government. Other than that, it gets complicated.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
rr, you make way too many assumptions about the people you don't agree with.

The draft will not happen under this congress. It is just a ploy to get everyone to share in the war effort instead of just the working class. The goal is noble but Bush should have done that on principle only (not the draft, but getting everyone in the nation to help with the effort).

If more Congressmen took things more seriously even when they feel insulated from the impacts, we wouldn't have half the problems Congress allows in our country.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
It is just a ploy .
Why can't your hero rangle just try to get people behind the war by saying , we support the war, we're going to stay till we win and provide any amount of money or any weapon to win??? Why come out with a lie saying you want to restart the draft when in reality you have no intention to? I thought you said you was sick of corrupt , lying politicians? Change of heart?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Red Robin- you can quit worrying, you aren't going to get drafted.. Nancy says it ain't gonna happen...You don't have to start booking your flight to Canada :wink: :lol:

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Monday, Nov. 20, 2006 12:08 a.m. EST
Nancy Pelosi: Restoring Military Draft Not on Agenda

House Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi said Monday her new Democratic majority will extend a hand to Republicans in moving the agenda of relieving the "middle-class squeeze." She said restoring the military draft will not be part of that agenda when Democrats take over the House in January.
 

Red Robin

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Red Robin- you can quit worrying, you aren't going to get drafted.. Nancy says it ain't gonna happen...You don't have to start booking your flight to Canada :wink: :lol:

---------------------------------------------------

Monday, Nov. 20, 2006 12:08 a.m. EST
Nancy Pelosi: Restoring Military Draft Not on Agenda

House Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi said Monday her new Democratic majority will extend a hand to Republicans in moving the agenda of relieving the "middle-class squeeze." She said restoring the military draft will not be part of that agenda when Democrats take over the House in January.
The stupid part of the whole deal is drafting little girls. He's an everloving idiot!!!! I personally would be ashamed to support his party! The mouth breathing moron. Shouldn't be able to vote if you aren't any smarter than some of these elected officials. :mad:
 
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