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One Down

RSL

Well-known member
One bull purchase down (would have been two if it snowed or rained).
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Now we just have to finish off shopping for an Angus bull and order our semen and we are shopped out and our bull battery is recharged.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
I like him! :D What ya gonna order semen wise? I have half a million semen catalogs spread out and am truing to make up my mind.
 

RSL

Well-known member
He's a 5 year old Simmental. He was actually an anchor herdsire of a commercially focused seedstock operation. We already have two of his sons working for us.
We think we are going to try working with sexed semen this summer on our young cows. We are still sorting through the possibilities on that one. We have used BC Lookout the last couple of years and are pretty happy so far. There are a couple of other possibilities that we will go around before the end of July.
The Angus bull has been a search this spring, as we won't buy a bull that isn't scanned and/or up to our quality standards. In Canada that trims down the pickings pretty quick. :lol:
 

miocene

Well-known member
he's a good lookin bull.what's his background. i have found the simmental to be like Timex watches they take a lickin and keep on tickin.the simmental stand up better under our range conditions .i raise simmental purebreds,and have used my own bulls in the commercial herdover the years and have come to expect at least 4years out of my home raised bulls.usually selling them after the 4th. year of use in perfect working condition weighing around 2000 #
 

RSL

Well-known member
If I tell you I'll be labelled good or bad.
He's a Right time x 600U on the top side and a TNT Shocker x Zima on the bottom.
You can guess where I got him from...
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
RSL said:
If I tell you I'll be labelled good or bad.
He's a Right time x 600U on the top side and a TNT Shocker x Zima on the bottom.
You can guess where I got him from...

Who would label you good or bad? :wink: I can guess where you got him.
 

RSL

Well-known member
Grassfarmer said:
RSL said:
If I tell you I'll be labelled good or bad.
He's a Right time x 600U on the top side and a TNT Shocker x Zima on the bottom.
You can guess where I got him from...

Who would label you good or bad? :wink: I can guess where you got him.
I'd like to hear the guesses... :lol:
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
I hope you have more luck buying from that program than we did. I bought a "maternal genetics" yearling there once - gave him 20 cows to breed and 4 were open. My other yearling bull also got 20 that year and they were all bred. Used him lightly the second year because I didn't trust him and didn't like the way he was growing (made a frame score 7 bull as 3 year old) Before breeding in year 3 he stifled himself and was worthless because it was the first year of BSE and no market. A replacement (charolais) they loaned me that summer never left me a calf either. The few daughters I got off the maternal bull are the biggest, highest maintenance cows I have and they can't live on our system.
Maybe just bad luck but with luck like that you're not inclined to go back. Nice enough folks to deal with though. Your bull looks very good - hope he performs well for you.
 

RSL

Well-known member
We will see the first calves this spring, but so far have been very impressed with the breeding capacity of the bulls, and the customer service and support have been second to none. We had a bull get injured last summer and a spare was there on a trailer in no time.
I am pretty excited to see the F1s off our cows this spring and fall.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
Grassfarmer said:
I hope you have more luck buying from that program than we did. I bought a "maternal genetics" yearling there once - gave him 20 cows to breed and 4 were open. My other yearling bull also got 20 that year and they were all bred. Used him lightly the second year because I didn't trust him and didn't like the way he was growing (made a frame score 7 bull as 3 year old) Before breeding in year 3 he stifled himself and was worthless because it was the first year of BSE and no market. A replacement (charolais) they loaned me that summer never left me a calf either. The few daughters I got off the maternal bull are the biggest, highest maintenance cows I have and they can't live on our system.
Maybe just bad luck but with luck like that you're not inclined to go back. Nice enough folks to deal with though. Your bull looks very good - hope he performs well for you.

Clarify something for me grassfarmer..... Who loaned you the replacement bull and for which bull was the replacment sent? Just curious. :wink:
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
leanin' H said:
Grassfarmer said:
I hope you have more luck buying from that program than we did. I bought a "maternal genetics" yearling there once - gave him 20 cows to breed and 4 were open. My other yearling bull also got 20 that year and they were all bred. Used him lightly the second year because I didn't trust him and didn't like the way he was growing (made a frame score 7 bull as 3 year old) Before breeding in year 3 he stifled himself and was worthless because it was the first year of BSE and no market. A replacement (charolais) they loaned me that summer never left me a calf either. The few daughters I got off the maternal bull are the biggest, highest maintenance cows I have and they can't live on our system.
Maybe just bad luck but with luck like that you're not inclined to go back. Nice enough folks to deal with though. Your bull looks very good - hope he performs well for you.

Clarify something for me grassfarmer..... Who loaned you the replacement bull and for which bull was the replacment sent? Just curious. :wink:

Should be clear enough - the breeders of the yearling loaned me a bull when their then rising 3 year old had to be culled. You might say they were being overly generous doing this two years after purchase but they pride themselves on their service and given the disappointment and trouble we had with the one I don't think it was unreasonable.

We had a situation with a customers bull this winter - he bought him last January and I never heard any complaint until this January. Apparently the bull had not maintained condition although he was settling cows ok - he felt initially that it was a change of feed/area but he melted through the fall and he was eventually culled by the vet under the BSE testing program. He was diagnosed then with a huge ulcerous mass that had eroded the back of his jaw, likely caused by a piece of wood or wire initially. He was fat when he left here so who knows when it started, why he never checked the bull out earlier or reported a concern to me. We replaced the bull no questions asked and will get the surrender value of the BSE program (about $250?) in return.
I think we are being more generous in this case than the guys that gave us the loaner (that didn't work) - and we paid twice as much for their yearling as we charge for rising two's :shock:

It's a free market for bulls and each can set their own prices and refund policies I guess.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
Well just to stir the pot...... An outfit you bought a bull from as a yearling loaned you a replacement two years later and that isnt the best customer service in the world? :shock: A replacement during the first breeding season is the standard. ANYTHING after that would be so far above and beyond great customer service I would think you would have ZERO complaints. The yearling bull covered 80% of the cattle he had to breed. 4 heifers didnt catch. Was it their fault or the bull's? :???: And then you state the bull grew into something bigger than you would like. Did you pick him out sight unseen? Did you research the cow family? Did you look at full brothers? What did his sire look like? A three year garauntee just doesnt happen. For you to be sideways with that bull producer is simply unrealistic in my opinion. And you then state you were being overly generous for working with a guy who bought your bull only one year later? :shock: I politely disagree. First off, why garuantee anything more that the first breeding season? If a bull is hit by a train it would be the buyer's issue. If the bull was sound when he left, covered cows the first season and then comes up lame or lump jaw it would be the buyers issue. As far as price difference, were you forced to pay more for a yearling? I'll bet you chose to pay for the bull freely. Nobody owes you anything! To say otherwise is simply unrealistic. For you to give anything but the highest marks to that producer is very poor form to me and I think you are better than that! :( Just to stir the pot! :wink:
 

Grassfarmer

Well-known member
leanin' H said:
Well just to stir the pot...... An outfit you bought a bull from as a yearling loaned you a replacement two years later and that isnt the best customer service in the world? :shock: A replacement during the first breeding season is the standard. ANYTHING after that would be so far above and beyond great customer service I would think you would have ZERO complaints. The yearling bull covered 80% of the cattle he had to breed. 4 heifers didnt catch. Was it their fault or the bull's? :???: And then you state the bull grew into something bigger than you would like. Did you pick him out sight unseen? Did you research the cow family? Did you look at full brothers? What did his sire look like? A three year garauntee just doesnt happen. For you to be sideways with that bull producer is simply unrealistic in my opinion. And you then state you were being overly generous for working with a guy who bought your bull only one year later? :shock: I politely disagree. First off, why garuantee anything more that the first breeding season? If a bull is hit by a train it would be the buyer's issue. If the bull was sound when he left, covered cows the first season and then comes up lame or lump jaw it would be the buyers issue. As far as price difference, were you forced to pay more for a yearling? I'll bet you chose to pay for the bull freely. Nobody owes you anything! To say otherwise is simply unrealistic. For you to give anything but the highest marks to that producer is very poor form to me and I think you are better than that! :( Just to stir the pot! :wink:

Setting your pot stirring aside for a moment I was sharing my experience with RSL on buying cattle from a source we both know - as I said maybe it was bad luck. It was my choice not to go back to the outfit after the experiences I had. As I said they are good people to deal with, part of the reason we were still talking with them two years after I bought the bull was that I think they too were disappointed with the bull - he did not turn out anything like what he was predicted or expected to. The suspicion was on the bull in year one - I split 40 cows gate run into two more or less adjacent paddocks - one bull settled 16 and the other 20.
You contradict yourself on my policy - "you then state you were being overly generous for working with a guy who bought your bull only one year later? :shock: I politely disagree." followed by "If the bull was sound when he left, covered cows the first season and then comes up lame or lump jaw it would be the buyers issue." There is a big difference between replacing a bull (with a better one, buyers pick by the way) and giving a breeding season loan of one that leaves no calves for the cost of insuring him.
I never said anybody owed me anything - but that after a cost to me of probably in excess of $5000 all in to get very few, very poor calves it was my decision to shop elsewhere. It's think it's up to me to decide who to give high marks to based on my purchasing experiences.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
I totally agree that it is up to you and you alone who you buy from and what you recommend others do when buying at the same outfit. I still feel wanting compensation for a bull you picked two years later is very unrealistic. That's just me though! But you do as you feel is fair. I will now officially stop using my spoon! :wink: We all see things differently and that is what makes things interesting i reckon! :D
 

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