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One Problem With COOL

Mike

Well-known member
The only problem I see right now is the MCOOL legislation starting full force in 2008 and is done without ID of some sort.

You dang sure can't prove where something "AIN'T" from if you can't prove where it "IS" from.
 

Bill

Well-known member
I don't know if you saw this Mike.

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19691
Some sort of individual animal ID, although not mandated by this law, is likely to be the only feasible way for many stocker operations to be able to maintain records of animal origin. Feedlots and packing plants will likewise need detailed records to maintain a complete chain of identification through the marketing system, especially during meat fabrication when pieces of animals are commingled in boxes of beef.

Like may of us have said before, anyone who doesn't think MID will be tied to mCOOL is a dreamer.
 

PORKER

Well-known member
SSI doesn't need a National ID system, It uses whatever ID is present on and animal or object . COOL runs just fine, Ask Those Alaskan Fishermen if the Fish they catch have RFID tags? I don't think so.
 

Bill

Well-known member
PORKER said:
SSI doesn't need a National ID system, It uses whatever ID is present on and animal or object . COOL runs just fine, Ask Those Alaskan Fishermen if the Fish they catch have RFID tags? I don't think so.

So how does your system work on herd brands that can be duplicated between herds in different states or countries??
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Mike, it's Christmas time and I've got three identical packages under my tree. I ran out of labels and could only labeled two; One package contains a Husker decanter and has "To Jigs" on it. Another is a jug of horse crap from the Dittmer Collection that is labeled, "To Bill". The third has no label, but is a bottle of Maker's Mark for you. Now what would prevent you from correctly picking your gift from under the tree?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Mike, it's Christmas time and I've got three identical packages under my tree. I ran out of labels and could only labeled two; One package contains a Husker decanter and has "To Jigs" on it. Another is a jug of horse crap from the Dittmer Collection that is labeled, "To Bill". The third has no label, but is a bottle of Maker's Mark for you. Now what would prevent you from correctly picking your gift from under the tree?

I fully understand your analogy and REALLY appreciate the Makers Mark, but there will be literally millions of gifts under the tree when COOL rolls around.

I really think COOL will help the beef industry and I really want it to work, but it's next to impossible to find ranchers who will agree on anything. ID is something that we need to do even without COOL. Especially if we are to export beef.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Mike, it's Christmas time and I've got three identical packages under my tree. I ran out of labels and could only labeled two; One package contains a Husker decanter and has "To Jigs" on it. Another is a jug of horse crap from the Dittmer Collection that is labeled, "To Bill". The third has no label, but is a bottle of Maker's Mark for you. Now what would prevent you from correctly picking your gift from under the tree?

What about the 4th gift under the tree? The one with absolutely no markings.


Let's open it up and see!!!!!!!!!!!

Why it's from the girls at the BANK!

There is a card inside saying get your own coffee we have real work to do at the bank when you're wasting bankers time on the internet!

Wait could that be a gift for SADHUSKER that somehow got under the wrong tree??????????
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :oops:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Mike said:
Sandhusker said:
Mike, it's Christmas time and I've got three identical packages under my tree. I ran out of labels and could only labeled two; One package contains a Husker decanter and has "To Jigs" on it. Another is a jug of horse crap from the Dittmer Collection that is labeled, "To Bill". The third has no label, but is a bottle of Maker's Mark for you. Now what would prevent you from correctly picking your gift from under the tree?

I fully understand your analogy and REALLY appreciate the Makers Mark, but there will be literally millions of gifts under the tree when COOL rolls around.

I really think COOL will help the beef industry and I really want it to work, but it's next to impossible to find ranchers who will agree on anything. ID is something that we need to do even without COOL. Especially if we are to export beef.

Mine are ID'd - each has a "Quarter Circle X" brand on the right hip.

Of all the millions of "tags", you only have to look for two, a "M" and a "CAN". How hard is that?
 

MoGal

Well-known member
I don't think USA should be forced into identifying their beef and if so it should be USA branded on it just like other countries should have to do theirs with their own country brand.

There are source identified programs out there and that's wonderful if you want to participate in one and if you've found your niche in marketing that way then you will reap the rewards of it.

I don't import beef and have absolutely no cattle on my property that came from another country. (maybe their ancestors did) but I know where I bought my registered red polls and I know the people I bought them from have records of where they bought them. I know the salebarn has records of who owned the cows I bought as I'm sure they sent someone a check. So its not like they can't be verified.

You all sound like the Sierra Club as they want to attach their agendas onto the farm bill.

The "consumer" wants to know what COUNTRY their food comes from not a family history of everyone who owned that beef.
 

ranch hand

Well-known member
Bill said:
PORKER said:
SSI doesn't need a National ID system, It uses whatever ID is present on and animal or object . COOL runs just fine, Ask Those Alaskan Fishermen if the Fish they catch have RFID tags? I don't think so.

So how does your system work on herd brands that can be duplicated between herds in different states or countries??

When they go to the feedlots they are usually tagged with the feedlot tags, the numbers are recorded with the brand inspection papers. So if #201 has the same brand as #809 they go to their receivng records and see who had that brand . Not to hard on the feedlots that tag as they usually keep good records as what cattle do good and whos do bad.
 

Bill

Well-known member
ranch hand said:
Bill said:
PORKER said:
SSI doesn't need a National ID system, It uses whatever ID is present on and animal or object . COOL runs just fine, Ask Those Alaskan Fishermen if the Fish they catch have RFID tags? I don't think so.

So how does your system work on herd brands that can be duplicated between herds in different states or countries??

When they go to the feedlots they are usually tagged with the feedlot tags, the numbers are recorded with the brand inspection papers. So if #201 has the same brand as #809 they go to their receivng records and see who had that brand . Not to hard on the feedlots that tag as they usually keep good records as what cattle do good and whos do bad.

That's with the SSI system?
 

rkaiser

Well-known member
Wiley old Bill writes -
What about the 4th gift under the tree? The one with absolutely no markings.


Let's open it up and see!!!!!!!!!!!

Why it's from the girls at the BANK!

There is a card inside saying get your own coffee we have real work to do at the bank when you're wasting bankers time on the internet!

Wait could that be a gift for SANDHUSKER that somehow got under the wrong tree??????????

:lol: One of the best ones of the year Bill. What ---- no response from the Banker? It's already 4:40 here in Alberta. Are we not the same time as Colorada? Did you feel guilty and have to get yer own coffee all afternoon Sandman - or did the girls read Bill's post? :lol:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
Mike, it's Christmas time and I've got three identical packages under my tree. I ran out of labels and could only labeled two; One package contains a Husker decanter and has "To Jigs" on it. Another is a jug of horse crap from the Dittmer Collection that is labeled, "To Bill". The third has no label, but is a bottle of Maker's Mark for you. Now what would prevent you from correctly picking your gift from under the tree?

What about the 4th gift under the tree? The one with absolutely no markings.


Let's open it up and see!!!!!!!!!!!

Why it's from the girls at the BANK!

There is a card inside saying get your own coffee we have real work to do at the bank when you're wasting bankers time on the internet!

Wait could that be a gift for SADHUSKER that somehow got under the wrong tree??????????
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :oops:

Well, let's use some deductive reasoning, Bill.... Canadian cattle get branded "CAN" at the border and Mexican cattle get branded "M", just where the hell could that critter be from?

And yes, it's been slow at the bank. I'd pull up some of Dittmer's writings but we have a BS filter that won't allow that kind of stuff to come thru.
 

Kato

Well-known member
Canadian slaughter cattle don't get branded. Unnecessary stress just before slaughter is just plain mean. I can see peta all over that.
Does every state have brand inspection?
What about a cow who's had three owners in her life and has three different brands?
What about one who's brand got botched? It happens.
Or an assembled load from an order buyer?
Or a calf that loses it's feedlot tag?

?????
 

PORKER

Well-known member
Internet data bank for livestock and beef
Copyright © 2007 IDTechEx Ltd | Downing Park, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambridge, CB25 0NW, UK

Food processors will now be able to tell where their meat supplies originated just by scanning the ears of the livestock and plugging a number into an Internet data bank from Scoring System. The system ScoringAg speeds up the process of tracing the history of an animal for the COOL Law. The free system has been set up by ScoringAg as part of the company's expansion of its online tracking and traceability system for food supply chains. http://www.cattlerange.com/tcr-mercantile/Scoring-Ag/scoring-system.html

"Without efficient, effective data collection system and a Web-based data management system, tagging livestock and other agriculture items cannot provide true animal traceback and traceup - even when a local, resident software system and database is used," ScoringSystem stated in a press release. "A Web-based system makes it possible for records to move with the individual product, which cuts the time required for source verification to just seconds." Its needed for the COOL Law.

The EU and the US plus other country's have adopted similar rules that require food companies to keep records of the operator immediately before them in the supply chain and the operator immediately after them. With ScoringAg's system, processors can scan the animals radio frequency identification (RFID) tag or its barcode tag while putting the correct code on each package of harvested beef and then put the number into the company's search page at www.ScoringAg.com. The number can also be seen visually and entered manually to pull all animal records.

Instead of waiting for hours or days, the ScoringAg system delivers the information in a matter of 2-3 seconds. The Public Records pages also can show a photo of the animal, giving an additional means of animal ID when ear tags are lost or stolen, and only unique identifying characteristics can give positive ID for that animals products.

The site will provide the public information available for the animal such as, breed, other ID tag data, name, date of birth, sex, grade, brand, tattoo, color, and dam and sire names. For paid subscribers to the service, ScoringAg will also provide the animal's traceback history from origin to current status is displayed by unique premises ID (PIDC), activity name, and activity date and time. The numbers can also be put into the site using a cell phone or wireless PDA.

ScoringSystem's PIDC traceability system uses the ISO standard for location and property identification. However ScoringSystem has developed a more comprehensive system to define all land and sea locations globally, including those areas that are not recognised or covered by the ISO standard, the UN and other international organisations to prove country of origin in real time.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Kato said:
Canadian slaughter cattle don't get branded. Unnecessary stress just before slaughter is just plain mean. I can see peta all over that.
Does every state have brand inspection?
What about a cow who's had three owners in her life and has three different brands?
What about one who's brand got botched? It happens.
Or an assembled load from an order buyer?
Or a calf that loses it's feedlot tag?

?????

So the packers mix Canadian slaughter cattle with US?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Kato said:
Canadian slaughter cattle don't get branded. Unnecessary stress just before slaughter is just plain mean. I can see peta all over that.
Does every state have brand inspection?
What about a cow who's had three owners in her life and has three different brands?
What about one who's brand got botched? It happens.
Or an assembled load from an order buyer?
Or a calf that loses it's feedlot tag?

?????

So what would you use Kato? If the eartag falls/rips out how do we know where it comes from-- do we just put a new eartag in it and that then becomes its birth country? Or should that animal just become unsellable and needs to be destroyed?

The tag studies done in actual conditions in our country didn't even end up with 90% of the animals that were identifiable by shipping time....And if there is money to be made in removing Canuck/Mex tags and replacinging with US tags- it will be done...

Even Bruce Knight of the USDA has admitted on several occasions that the technology is not yet available to make NAIS workable at this time...

The US government needs to keep the hot iron branding/segregation (sealed lots) on imports from now in- whether they go to the farce tags or not.....Until they come up with an undamageable, unalterable alternative....
 

PORKER

Well-known member
The tag studies done in actual conditions in our country didn't even end up with 90% of the animals that were identifiable by shipping time...********THAT A LINE OF BULL when boluses are used.And if there is money to be made in removing Canuck/Mex tags and replacinging with US tags- it will be done...THATS WHY OTHER COUNTRYS DON"T USE TAGS they use Boluses


Only ID that stays put is either a hot brand or a rumin RFID Bolus but the brand can be burned over an cattle rustled.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Bill said:
PORKER said:
SSI doesn't need a National ID system, It uses whatever ID is present on and animal or object . COOL runs just fine, Ask Those Alaskan Fishermen if the Fish they catch have RFID tags? I don't think so.

So how does your system work on herd brands that can be duplicated between herds in different states or countries??

Hey Porky you must of missed this one?

You say that SSI can use whatever ID is present.

How does SSI work on herd brands that can be duplicated between herds in different states or countries?
 

Bill

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
Mike, it's Christmas time and I've got three identical packages under my tree. I ran out of labels and could only labeled two; One package contains a Husker decanter and has "To Jigs" on it. Another is a jug of horse crap from the Dittmer Collection that is labeled, "To Bill". The third has no label, but is a bottle of Maker's Mark for you. Now what would prevent you from correctly picking your gift from under the tree?

What about the 4th gift under the tree? The one with absolutely no markings.


Let's open it up and see!!!!!!!!!!!

Why it's from the girls at the BANK!

There is a card inside saying get your own coffee we have real work to do at the bank when you're wasting bankers time on the internet!

Wait could that be a gift for SADHUSKER that somehow got under the wrong tree??????????
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :oops:

Well, let's use some deductive reasoning, Bill.... Canadian cattle get branded "CAN" at the border and Mexican cattle get branded "M", just where the hell could that critter be from?

And yes, it's been slow at the bank. I'd pull up some of Dittmer's writings but we have a BS filter that won't allow that kind of stuff to come thru.

Ummmmm. your stuff still gets thru!!!!!!!!!!!! Always on Dittmer's case but never able to prove him wrong. :roll:

Betcha can't wait til Christmas now huh? If your in charge of the Christmas decorating committee at the Bank you had better MID those gifts so you know which one is yours. I bet you would hate to open one of the girls by mistake!
 
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