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open borders / closed borders

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jigs

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I would like to see a discussion on the border issue that does not turn into a heated, insult flinging, us vs. them thread. And no unsupported "facts".

I for one am all for the closing of the border, as long as we shut off the Mexican border first! It has been proven that Canada has BSE.....lets limit the type of cattle they are allowed to ship in. NO boxed beef, just live critters bound straight for the packers that are less than 30 months old. Tag them and track them and hang anyone bending the rules. Make an example out of the first few offenders and the rest will play by the law.

Now, the REAL problem we are facing is the southern border.......and I hear NO ONE talking about it!!!! How many Argentine, Austrailian, and Brazilian cattle cross over Mexico to plug into our system??? That my friends is the point which I want answered. Canada has the spot light on them, the southerners just got the green light, and I will guarantee they are slipping stuff in we don't want!!!


As far as the C.O.O.L. program; bring it on! tag everything ENTERING our country as NON American beef, leave us alone here....why should I pay more money out of my pocket to prove I raised it here??? No offense to you Canadians, but the foriegn countries are ruining this one because our govt. has no balls.

I run a small herd, and if this is passed, I will be damned if I comply with it. They can send some Senators out here and tag my stock, because that is the only way it will happen.




:!:
 

Murgen

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Jigs, where you been for the last month. These questions get answered on here day in and day out. Again and again. a couple more times and it might get repetitive.
 

rancher

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Murgen said:
Jigs, where you been for the last month. These questions get answered on here day in and day out. Again and again. a couple more times and it might get repetitive.

You can see he has only posted 4 times. So easy on him, welcome aboard Jigs.
Murgen, as for Again and Again, just read the archives from years ago and someone keeps the repetition going and going and going. :wink:
 

Tam

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Quote from OIE
The Code also draws attention to the obligations under the provisions of the World Trade Organization-Sanitary and Phytosanitary Agreement (WTO-SPS), whereby the importing country cannot be more trade restrictive than necessary to achieve the desired national level of protection, and that its measures must not be different from those applied to products within the domestic market.

Quote from jigs
As far as the C.O.O.L. program; bring it on! tag everything ENTERING our country as NON American beef, leave us alone here....why should I pay more money out of my pocket to prove I raised it here???

Now since you don't care to prove where your beef comes from in the domestic market I would think you couldn't force it on importing countries to do it either.

Doesn't NAFTA also state you can't discriminate against imports by labeling them as so. if you label imports you have to label domestic?
 

rancher

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We could start labeling beef from 20 months and younger and there would be Canadian cattle in the mix. So safe to say it is all USA beef, all imports are already marked with the country of orgin on them. So we are not asking anything more of imports. They would have a label and we would have a label. :roll: Now if we asked for M'ID to the birth place that would be another story as we would be asking what we don't do.
 

jigs

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Now since you don't care to prove where your beef comes from in the domestic market I would think you couldn't force it on importing countries to do it either.


you make my point for me..... I AM a domestic market....my cattle, born, raised, fed in the USA need not be tagged and tracked if slaughtered in the USA...if I sold them to a packer in Mexico or Canada, then I would think it only right for me to tag them as an import.

this is not discriminatory, just logical!
 

Big Muddy rancher

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jigs said:
Now since you don't care to prove where your beef comes from in the domestic market I would think you couldn't force it on importing countries to do it either.


you make my point for me..... I AM a domestic market....my cattle, born, raised, fed in the USA need not be tagged and tracked if slaughtered in the USA...if I sold them to a packer in Mexico or Canada, then I would think it only right for me to tag them as an import.

this is not discriminatory, just logical!


What if your beef is slaughtered for Japan. It would need to be marked.
 

Murgen

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Does the US want us to put the tag #'s on the boxes? It's already marked as Product of Canada, graded in Canada etc. I'm sure there's import records also. Maybe it's the US that does not want it known that the Canadian beef is of good quality.

With only being 5% of your supply, it might even be regarded as a novelty and garnish a higher price! :shock:
 

Tam

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jigs said:
Now since you don't care to prove where your beef comes from in the domestic market I would think you couldn't force it on importing countries to do it either.


you make my point for me..... I AM a domestic market....my cattle, born, raised, fed in the USA need not be tagged and tracked if slaughtered in the USA...if I sold them to a packer in Mexico or Canada, then I would think it only right for me to tag them as an import.

this is not discriminatory, just logical!

Are you sure yours only go into the domestic market both Mexico and Canada import beef and cattle from the U.S.
 

Murgen

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Tam, you probably know this already but Mexico has reduced their imports of US boxed and increased Canadian boxed within the last year and a bit. I think they're taking over some of the live market from where Canada left off. Does anybody have the actual numbers :shock:
 

don

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murgen: Tam, you probably know this already but Mexico has reduced their imports of US boxed and increased Canadian boxed within the last year and a bit. I think they're taking over some of the live market from where Canada left off. Does anybody have the actual numbers

don't have the actual numbers, murgen but the last issue of agriweek said the us is importing all the mexican cattle it can get.
 

mwj

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Don
The usda shows imports for wk of 3/19/2005=41,806 hd.
year to date=305,269 head all figures were for feeder cattle, does this answer your question?
 

mrj

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jigs, the COOL law REQUIRES packers to verify source.

How can the packer verify source if you will not ID your calves?

If, as I have read, there is a $10,000.00 fine on the packer for failure to verify source, do you think he will buy any calves you owned?

Who will process your calves into beef if you do not ID them?

Who will buy your calves if you do not ID them?

MRJ
 

rancher

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the COOL law REQUIRES packers to verify source.

If it is under 20 months and doesn't have a Can brand or a M brand on it, gee, duh, it must be USA cattle. If the packers have a hard time remembering that then I guess they tag them as they get them in. :lol:
 

Tam

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rancher said:
the COOL law REQUIRES packers to verify source.

If it is under 20 months and doesn't have a Can brand or a M brand on it, gee, duh, it must be USA cattle. If the packers have a hard time remembering that then I guess they tag them as they get them in. :lol:

Are you saying that the COOL law only pertains to 20 month and under beef. I thought it was on all beef including the animals imported from Canada over the years that the U.S. beef industry can't find. How is the Packers to source verify those animals?
 
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Tam said:
rancher said:
the COOL law REQUIRES packers to verify source.

If it is under 20 months and doesn't have a Can brand or a M brand on it, gee, duh, it must be USA cattle. If the packers have a hard time remembering that then I guess they tag them as they get them in. :lol:

Are you saying that the COOL law only pertains to 20 month and under beef. I thought it was on all beef including the animals imported from Canada over the years that the U.S. beef industry can't find. How is the Packers to source verify those animals?



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U.S. Department of Agriculture data show 11.8 million Canadian cattle entered the United States between 1994 and 2003. Over 9.3 million were imported for immediate slaughter, never entering the U.S. cattle herd. Another 1.9 million were feeder cattle, all of which likely were slaughtered before 2004. This leaves only 526,000 breeding cattle. But 456,000 of these are dairy cattle, each with a productive life of about four years. Dairy cattle imported prior to 1999 likely have been culled from the herd, eliminating another 150,000 cattle. Therefore, a reasonable estimate of Canadian cattle that may still be in the U.S. cattle herd today is only 306,000 head, less than four-tenths of 1 percent of the United States' 94.1 million-head herd.

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Tam - those would be grandfathered under the law ( considered US origin)-- If that don't suit you, we could lobby to have the border closed until 2012 (or whenever as the cases keep showing up) as the current OIE rules suggests..........
 

doug

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IDing animals is used as a potential traceback of any disease not just BSE.TB , bruccellosis,Foot 'n mouth to mention a few. The Canadian system is in place to protect us from ourselves as well as foreign sources. The tagging goes on routinely around our farm and the work or cost hasn't bust us yet . I think you pansy American ranchers better buck up and get with the program.
 

Bill

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Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
rancher said:
the COOL law REQUIRES packers to verify source.

If it is under 20 months and doesn't have a Can brand or a M brand on it, gee, duh, it must be USA cattle. If the packers have a hard time remembering that then I guess they tag them as they get them in. :lol:

Are you saying that the COOL law only pertains to 20 month and under beef. I thought it was on all beef including the animals imported from Canada over the years that the U.S. beef industry can't find. How is the Packers to source verify those animals?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Department of Agriculture data show 11.8 million Canadian cattle entered the United States between 1994 and 2003. Over 9.3 million were imported for immediate slaughter, never entering the U.S. cattle herd. Another 1.9 million were feeder cattle, all of which likely were slaughtered before 2004. This leaves only 526,000 breeding cattle. But 456,000 of these are dairy cattle, each with a productive life of about four years. Dairy cattle imported prior to 1999 likely have been culled from the herd, eliminating another 150,000 cattle. Therefore, a reasonable estimate of Canadian cattle that may still be in the U.S. cattle herd today is only 306,000 head, less than four-tenths of 1 percent of the United States' 94.1 million-head herd.

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Tam - those would be grandfathered under the law ( considered US origin)-- If that don't suit you, we could lobby to have the border closed until 2012 (or whenever as the cases keep showing up) as the current OIE rules suggests..........

(or whenever as the cases keep showing up)

Are you talking of US cases?
 

Tam

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Oldtimer
those would be grandfathered under the law ( considered US origin)-
-

So you heard it here Oldtimer said any animal in the US is grandfathered in and is U.S. origin. The next animal to be found with BSE in the U.S. is from the U.S. Yea right just like the Washington cow was.
 

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