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Once again, these "M"COOL Proponents think they have it all figured out with their simplified "M" and "C" brands as if those brands burn through to carcass let alone the 300 individual packages of beef those carcasses become.

Without documentation on everything, there is documentation on nothing. Any Canadian carcass can become a U.S. carcass unless there is a traceback mechanism in force on all cattle.

You hypocrites say you don't trust packers but suddenly you trust them to label Canadian beef accurately???? Where's the consistancy in your arguments?

The only way to enforce this is to have a traceback system on all cattle so what goes into the plant matches what goes out. With only a traceback system on foreign cattle, there is no way to enforce the law because anything can become anything.

What is so sad about this is R-CULT throws out their ignorant implementation and enforcement plans and blames USDA for not being able to implement and enforce their simplicity.

Too bad R-CULT isn't in charge of implementing and enforcing their own ignorance.


~SH~
 
Once again its the same old arguement,Once again, these "M"COOL Proponents think they have it all figured out with their simplified "M" and "C" brands as if those brands burn through to carcass let alone the 300 individual packages of beef those carcasses become. WEll blow YOUR NOSE as SSI has the TRACEBACK SYSTEM that tracks 300-400 individual packages of beef those carcasses become.
 
Porker: "WEll blow YOUR NOSE as SSI has the TRACEBACK SYSTEM that tracks 300-400 individual packages of beef those carcasses become."

I UNDERSTAND THAT PORKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You're missing the point AGAIN. The point is ENFORCEABILITY!!!


Answer this question Porker, CAN USDA ENFORCE ORIGINATION INFORMATION ON ALL BEEF GOING OUT OF A PLANT WITHOUT TRACKING ALL THE CATTLE GOING IN TO THE PLANT????

Yes or no?

Can you guarantee that a package of beef of Canadian origination is actually Canadian origination WITHOUT TRACKING ALL THE CATTLE COMING INTO THE PLANT????

Yes or no?

If you can't say "YES" then you don't have anything from an enforcement standpoint!

I know SSI can track it but not if the information is not there to track.


This is about "ENFORCEMENT". This is about guaranteeing that a package of beef from Canada is from Canada. Without tracking all the cattle coming into the plant, there is no way to match the beef going out of the plant.



~SH~
 
I can't know that by looking at their traceback PDF posted.Lets see if one of their staff picks this up and answers ypur question SH.
 
Porker: "WEll blow YOUR NOSE as SSI has the TRACEBACK SYSTEM that tracks 300-400 individual packages of beef those carcasses become."

I UNDERSTAND THAT PORKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You're missing the point AGAIN. The point is ENFORCEABILITY!!!
STAFF -Enforceability ,It starts where information Starts,any details that can be collected or passed on is information for an enitity.

Answer this question Porker, CAN USDA ENFORCE ORIGINATION INFORMATION ON ALL BEEF GOING OUT OF A PLANT WITHOUT TRACKING ALL THE CATTLE GOING IN TO THE PLANT????

Yes or no? -------STAFF---Yes,if the plant has our traceback system operating inhouse all products can be sourced back to the operator and the cutting station and ID of the enitity at the point of information startup.

Can you guarantee that a package of beef of Canadian origination is actually Canadian origination WITHOUT TRACKING ALL THE CATTLE COMING INTO THE PLANT????

Yes or no? STAFF--Yes ,if the plant has the necessary production stations in place to indenitify and manage data to pass on enitity data.All product's will have it's enitity id label wheather boxed with other id's or by itself.

If you can't say "YES" then you don't have anything from an enforcement standpoint!
STAFF,yes that's true in most cases.
I know SSI can track it but not if the information is not there to track.
STAFF--This depends on the point of information at the plant door.For instance ,at the door you would know the truck name and it's driver and the source of cattle be it from an auction,the animal's color, gender,any brands on each animal,possible breed or crossbreed,weight ,dairy ,non dairy,horned or polled,and teeth.Second if there was a visual tag or other tags,RFID's button or bolus,barcoded premises tags,and or chips that can be searched to other databases is source information.

This is about "ENFORCEMENT". This is about guaranteeing that a package of beef from Canada is from Canada. Without tracking all the cattle coming into the plant, there is no way to match the beef going out of the plant. STAFF--You can have data thats avaiable or from other databases that is hard to source but the beef exiting a plant always has it's information wheather created at the front slaughter door or part way through fabrication .The data is started at the point of infromation nomatter if its the point of orgin or have way through it in our traceback system as you always know the previous activity and discryption of that enitity.You are welcomed to look over our web site at www.scoringsystem.com/agri/ .
 
Q: "CAN USDA ENFORCE ORIGINATION INFORMATION ON ALL BEEF GOING OUT OF A PLANT WITHOUT TRACKING ALL THE CATTLE GOING IN TO THE PLANT????"

Yes or no? -------STAFF---:"Yes,if the plant has our traceback system operating inhouse all products can be sourced back to the operator and the cutting station and ID of the enitity at the point of information startup."

IF EVERYONE IS COMPLETELY HONEST AND ACCURATE IN THEIR SEGREGATION OF THESE PRODUCTS!!!

USDA has said that "all cattle will be traced" because not everyone is honest.

This will not be left to TRUST because the label has to be confirmed. The only way to confirm that label is to have an accounting of all the cattle coming in and all the beef going out. That way there is no incentive to beat the system because the records on the cattle coming in would have to match the records on the beef going out.

USDA has already spelled this out in the rules process. "Anyone who provides a covered commodity to a retailer must provide origin information for that covered commodity." It's already a done deal!

The only way USDA can know for sure that there is correct labeling is to have an accurate account on origin of all cattle unless those cattle are totally segregated.

SSI is not in charge of enforcing this law, USDA is and USDA said that it will require traceback on all cattle.


~SH~
 
SH-- As a former law enforcement officer with 30 years of investigation experience, I could easily, with the rules currently proposed, provide enforcement of the M-COOL law as good or better than any of the rules currently being enforced by the USDA....but I wouldn't expect to ever be able to make a Game Warden understand it-- some things take more than human capability :lol: ........
 
IF EVERYONE IS COMPLETELY HONEST AND ACCURATE IN THEIR SEGREGATION OF THESE PRODUCTS!!! ****From what the SSI engineer department said,That the accounting reports per plant will show where enititys are being entered into a plant as the FDA will require this information in DEC.of this year.(The only way to confirm that label is to have an accounting of all the cattle coming in and all the beef going out. That way there is no incentive to beat the system because the records on the cattle coming in would have to match the records on the beef going out.)****THEY said that's one of the reasons some companys don't want to use their system because their is no way to fudge the records.They also said they were in no hurry for signup here in the states as they had whole countrys putting their systems to work in order to get sales going to Japan and Europe.They are a nice bunch of guys and gals at SSI.
 
PORKER said:
IF EVERYONE IS COMPLETELY HONEST AND ACCURATE IN THEIR SEGREGATION OF THESE PRODUCTS!!! ****From what the SSI engineer department said,That the accounting reports per plant will show where enititys are being entered into a plant as the FDA will require this information in DEC.of this year.(The only way to confirm that label is to have an accounting of all the cattle coming in and all the beef going out. That way there is no incentive to beat the system because the records on the cattle coming in would have to match the records on the beef going out.)****THEY said that's one of the reasons some companys don't want to use their system because their is no way to fudge the records.They also said they were in no hurry for signup here in the states as they had whole countrys putting their systems to work in order to get sales going to Japan and Europe.They are a nice bunch of guys and gals at SSI.
Click to expand...

Porker- the only way to meet ~SH~'s requirements would be DNA testing of every piece of meat-- an absurd idea.... With the current USDA cattle and beef marking rules cattle could be identified at slaughter- Mx for Mexican, CAN for Canadian, rest is US product-- carcass tagged with SSI tags as the hide is being removed and traced thru the system... Beef product coming in is already marked and could be tracked thru receipt info-- which is the same way FDA is currently tracking feed products... If you had reason to believe improprieties existed, DNA samples could be used along with auditing to catch law breakers.....But if you are expecting an absolute foolproof system as SH does- it does not exist- we do not (Thank God) yet have to live in ~SH~'s perfect world .......
 
Porker- the only way to meet ~SH~'s requirements would be DNA testing of every piece of meat-- an absurd idea....*******Must be he owns stock in the DNA company.BSE testing costs $28.00 dollars a test I have been told ,or in that case one steak with DNA test would cost $40.00 to do a traceback on it. I do see your point.Too expensive for my grill.
 
OT: "Porker- the only way to meet ~SH~'s requirements would be DNA testing of every piece of meat-- an absurd idea...."

Yet another lie from OT!

I participated in the very first USDA TOTALLY PROCESS VERIFIED branded beef program, PM BEEF. I know exactly what it takes to source verify beef.

Bottom line, all animals are traced to and from the plant.

You "M"COOL proponents insisted on proving where beef was "BORN, RAISED, AND SLAUGHTERED" or did you forget that part????


When you hypocrites realized that what you demanded ("born, raised and slaughtered") would require traceback, then you start backpeddling with your "signed affidavits" and "presumption of U.S. origin" bullsh*t.


OT: "With the current USDA cattle and beef marking rules cattle could be identified at slaughter- Mx for Mexican, CAN for Canadian, rest is US product--"

First you would have to change our trade laws to mark imported Canadian cattle.

Ok, so let's assume that is done WHICH IT'S NOT. This identifies TO THE PLANT but what identifies THROUGH THE PLANT???

Without a traceback system for all cattle entering the plant, the HONOR SYSTEM DOES???

How ironic that you packer blamers were blaming packers for hiding foreign beef behind the USDA grade stamp are now trusting these same packers to track beef correctly with nothing more than "signed affidavits" and a tracking system based on the honor system.

YOU ARE SUCH A HYPOCRITE OT!!!

Have you ever heard of the term "high grading"?

Any U.S. beef can become Canadian beef with the switch of a label without an enforceable system of tracking all beef through the plant.

That's the trouble with this law. R-CULT clones like OT are allowed the throne of judgement instead of being held accountable for the enforcement of the flawed law that they demanded.

Moot point anyway because the law specifically states that (paraphrasing) "any person who supplies a covered commodity to a retailer must provide origination information for that covered commodity". What you want will require a change in both trade laws and the "M"COOL law yet you keep parroting the R-CULT lines as if this can be done RIGHT NOW.


OT: "carcass tagged with SSI tags as the hide is being removed and traced thru the system... "

These "supposedly" dishonest packers are now on the honor system.

WHY DIDN'T YOU LISTEN TO ALL THE PROCESSORS, OF ALL SIZES, DURING THE "M"COOL LISTENING SESSIONS TELL ABOUT THE PROBLEMS OF CARCASS SEGREGATION IN THEIR PLANTS???

Of course SSI will say they can do it, they are selling a product. They aren't the ones keeping the barrels of trim seperate.

If I want to know how this law will affect processors, I will listen to the processors explain it, not ranchers who claim to be in the "cattle industry" yet think they know more about the "beef industry" than those who are actually in the "beef industry".


OT: "Beef product coming in is already marked and could be tracked thru receipt info-- which is the same way FDA is currently tracking feed products..."

Have you ever seen beef fabrication in a large packing plant? Obviously not.

The easiest way to accomplish what you want to accomplish would be by segregated processing of like origination cattle. That would still be difficult due to all the comingling of cattle in certain feedyards.



OT: "If you had reason to believe improprieties existed, DNA samples could be used along with auditing to catch law breakers....."

Without a traceback system on all cattle, there is no way you would know if any improprieties existed???? How would you know??

"BY GOLLY, THAT LOOKS LIKE A CANADIAN T-BONE THAR"

Good grief!

USDA has to verify that a label stating "product of Canada" is not a product of the U.S.

In order to do that, the origination information of the cattle coming in needs to match the origination information of the beef going out. As SSI said, their tracking system is only as good as the information within it.


OT: "But if you are expecting an absolute foolproof system as SH does- it does not exist- we do not (Thank God) yet have to live in ~SH~'s perfect world ......."

Like I said, these source verified branded beef programs already exist. This is nothing new.

Leo called "M"COOL as written "A GOOD LAW" yet you guys want something that this law does not allow.


Porker: "THEY said that's one of the reasons some companys don't want to use their system because their is no way to fudge the records."

The records don't need to be fudged if there is no accountability on the cattle coming in.


OT: "As a former law enforcement officer with 30 years of investigation experience, I could easily, with the rules currently proposed, provide enforcement of the M-COOL law as good or better than any of the rules currently being enforced by the USDA...."

You think that you can enforce this law differently than the way the law is actually written???

BWAHAHAHA!

Such arrogance!


"Just mark the imports, just mark the imports" said the R-CULT clone.



~SH~
 

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