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Opinions/Suggestions/$0.02 needed.

Hey, RobertMac, what you just described is what we strive to do
in producing nice, efficient replacement heifers.

But we aren't quite there yet, we have only been doing this
for 38 years. Got 2 years left to go!!!! :P :wink:

Seriously, I do appreciate your right-on comments.

Shoot, I went back and reread your post. Make that we
are 8 years AHEAD of your minimum time frame.

YIPPPEEEE!!! YAHOOO!!! WOOOO HOOOOOO!!! :roll: :wink: :lol:
 
I have that book Robert, and although I don't raise Beefmasters I do find the book darn interesting and increasingly relevant.. My Dad knew the gent who wrote the bok, Tom's son I think, through some business meetings and even went to one of the shows in KC that were promoting befmasters back in the 70's or early 80's (Dad is a bit sketchy on the details.. I suppose he is on the breed as well but he is pretty darn sure it was beefmasters).. Guys in tuxes carrying pooper scoopers while other folks were trying to get guys to invest in this bull or that.. Said it was an eye opening experience but didn't buy anything...
 
You know I went to a Bull sale this year. These guys were selling Herefords and Angus.
First thing is the Angus were penned in the close pens and to get to see the Herefords you had to wade through mud. Ugly stepchild.
On a side note I have seen guys who bred herefords and would buy a market priced herd bull...........so they were getting nowhere. So what was their answer.............go top the bull sale for another breed. Since they spent big bucks they would baby their "new breed"
Also I had truck drivers that hated hauling hereford as they were to gentle to load fast. The blacks would hit one end of the pen or other.......he just tried to stay away from being at the wrong end.
Anyway at this bull sale the Herefords came in and walked around like it was another day. But when the blacks came in, if they weren't trying to climb out of the ring they were snorting and pawing at the audience. Mind you these were raised by the same guy......................hmmm.
I know hereford did have some problems in the past. However I verry very seldom have a bad eye, never did understand about the udder thing, never was a problem, prolapse can't remember the last one I had.......I see the neighbors blacks have more problems than mine. Cows aren't made to babysit.
If one likes blacks and they work for them I will not dispute them because they work for many.
Myself I want an animal that is trouble free and gets the job done without babsitting. For me the herefords need less babsitting aand babysitting cost money. Since I am really raising kids and the cattle are a means to do that...........I will not gamble with anything high strung.
Maybe we all deal with stereotypes, maybe the blacks aren't alll like that..........like maybe the herefords do not all fit the seventies stereotypes either.
 
I have personally owned only 3 breeds...Angus, Herefords and Brangus. But I've worked with probably over 25 different breeds/crosses over the years.

Bottom line....buy what YOU like and think that YOU can handle and that YOU can sell for YOUR area.

All breeds have their warts as none of them are ' perfect'.
 
passin thru said:
kola.................BINGO
Click to expand...
That's it...it's the breeder, not the breed.

Faster horses, 38 years closed herd? No bought bulls? :)

IL Rancher, back in the 70s and early 80s, there were two Beefmaster associations...Beefmaster Breeders Universal and Foundation Beefmaster Association. As it would imply, the Lasaters were in FBA...they didn't have shows of any kind. BBU had all the shows and glitter...I wasted a lot of money on BBU cattle. If you went to the link, the bull on the cover is one of the lines I'm building my program with.
 
My Angus herd to date has been ' closed' now for close to 25 years. I've AI'ed and kept what I wanted to raise for my actual ' breeding' bulls.

I like it that way cause if I raise the critter, since I work in close quarters and smaller pastures here , I know my animal and how they were handled and how they might react in a situation.

Granted you can never predict what any animal will do, esp a bull, but I feel I've got a slight advantage if he's one of MINE! Or at least it's worked out that way so far!!!!
 
I dunno what it was exactly.. It might have been just some breedes trying to get some non cattle folks t invest, read get some money from folks who didn't know a steer from a bull from a cow but might see a tax loop hole or something and I can't be 100% sure it was even Beefmaster.. Iget confused with it being Beefmaster and Brangus (NOt the breeds in general, just this story he told me)...

The only reason I know he knew, I think it was Laurence Lassiter, is because he saw the book laying on my desk and said, "Hey, I know that guy.. " Than my emory fads as to how he met him but my dad has a way of meeting people..

The book we have is the 72 paper back I think.. The one that is out of print.. Was just readin it again the other day..

New book cover or old book cover?
 
IL Rancher said:
I dunno what it was exactly.. It might have been just some breedes trying to get some non cattle folks t invest, read get some money from folks who didn't know a steer from a bull from a cow but might see a tax loop hole or something and I can't be 100% sure it was even Beefmaster.. Iget confused with it being Beefmaster and Brangus (NOt the breeds in general, just this story he told me)...

The only reason I know he knew, I think it was Laurence Lassiter, is because he saw the book laying on my desk and said, "Hey, I know that guy.. " Than my emory fads as to how he met him but my dad has a way of meeting people..

The book we have is the 72 paper back I think.. The one that is out of print.. Was just readin it again the other day..

New book cover or old book cover?
Click to expand...

The new cover...L-5502

Laurie is a salesman and there were big tax write-offs back then...could have been him.
 
Soapweed said:
1) You are right, Rod, but the problem comes with trying to maintain that good uniform set of F1 baldy cows. IluvAltaBeef would always be at someone else's mercy when it came to buying her replacement females. By having a straight herd of moderate Angus cows, and raising her own replacements, this would never be a problem.

2) Heck, all this is just a good mental exercise in "theory," anyway. :wink: You can see by my pictures that I don't completely practice what I preach, as our herd has both red and black cattle, and even one occasional Hereford. :roll: :-)
Click to expand...

1) I hear where you're coming from, but thats why I recommended she breed her F1s back to one of the original breeds (ex: AngusXHereford bred back to Angus). With careful selection of her bull, which she'll need to do anyway, the 3/4, 1/4 F2s will be as productive as the F1s. I know the university/college studies all say you get less production/consistency from a 1/4, 3/4 cross but I disagree. You just need to select good maternal bulls whose phenotype matches the existing cows. And of course you have to be picky when selecting your replacements. Then you get the best of both worlds: good replacements that you've bred yourself AND good crossbred calves to take to market.

2) Yep, I don't get into town much for coffee, so I gotta talk critters somewhere. :lol: I breed my commercials back to Shorthorn bulls for the time being, so my color is all over the place. I get some blacks, some black and red blazes, a few blue roans, a few reds. No-one can accuse me of being racist. :lol: This year should be different though. I bought one of Kaiser's Welsh Blacks and I'll be putting him on my breeding stock.

Come to think of it, AltaBeef, with you being in that Alberta country, you should get ahold of Randy Kaiser. If he doesn't have some quality open replacement Welsh Black heifers for you to buy, he'll know someone who does. Its my opinion that the Welsh Black breed has maintained beef production values while Angus (at least in Canada) has slid well backwards. You can breed those critters to a solid Hereford bull (Randy may be able to help you on that front too) to get your F1s.

Rod
 
I am a little late on this thread but here is my input for what it is worth, I also am new to the cattle business and here is what I am doing. I wanted to have easy going efficient cows, so I chose hereford. I have a good friend whos family has had a closed line bred 100 head herd for fifty some odd years, so He is gracious enough to sell me females. I chose three cow families to build from. now In our area you will take a dime a pound hit on hereford calves. so I bought some angus semen from genex from a bull that will do the most for my deal. and I will be able to take advantage of some heterosios and have f-1 black baldies. the heifers I have I will keep til I am at the number I can handle. and the steers will sell well at 600 to 800 weghts. I will either breed the f-1s angus again or breed them to a third term. cross I am not to that point yet. When I am maxed out I will be able to trace my cows all the way back to those three proven cow lines.
Iluvaltabeef, Pay attention to what the posters on here say, you can learn alot from the years of expierience these people have. It is alot cheaper than making the mistakes yourself, not to mention setting you back several years. good luck :) Shawn
 

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