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OT's going to have to be patient on this one.

Kato

Well-known member
Panel of judges hears plea from ranchers in mad cow case

07/13/2007

By JULIA SILVERMAN / Associated Press


A ranchers' group made a last-ditch appeal for further consideration of a ban on the import of Canadian cattle in front of a federal appeals court panel in Portland on Friday.

Their plea has already been rejected once by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, and a Montana judge refused in early 2006 to overturn that decision, saying his "hands were tied" by the higher court's actions.

A temporary ban on Canadian cattle imports was put in place in May of 2003, after a cow in Alberta was found to have mad cow disease, then lifted in July of 2005, after U.S. officials got the go-ahead to do so from federal judges.

On Friday, lawyers for a group of cattle ranchers, the Ranchers Cattlemen Action Legal Fund United Stockgrowers of America, known as R-CALF, argued that new information required reconsideration of their case.

Russell Frye, a lawyer for R-CALF, said that a small handful of additional cases of mad cow disease have surfaced in Canada since previous decisions, and that the lower court had reached, "an incorrect conclusion that the Court has already resolved the merits of R-CALF's claims."

But Mark Stern, an attorney representing the U.S. Department of Agriculture, argued that the few additional cases of mad cow disease that have since surfaced are not a threat to the U.S. food system because of "preventative measures" that have since been put in place.

And he said R-CALF's lawyers failed to present any significantly new information to suggest that the court's previous rulings should be overturned.

The Portland judges appeared somewhat skeptical of R-CALF's arguments, noting the ongoing work by the agricultural agency on new rules for cattle imports and beef products.
Mad cow disease is the common name for bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or BSE. People who eat meat tainted with BSE can contract a degenerative, fatal brain disorder called variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, or vCJD. More than 150 people died from the disorder following a 1986 outbreak in the United Kingdom.

U.S. meat processors and packers have opposed the rehearing, instead supporting the USDA's conclusion that Canadian cattle was safe. In the 2003 Canadian outbreak, there were five confirmed cases of BSE, out of an estimated national herd of 17 million cattle.

The U.S. cattle industry is still facing some fallout from the Canadian mad cow episode, after facing widespread bans and millions of dollars in losses in the immediate wake of the outbreak. Limited restrictions remain in place in Korea, Singapore and Egpyt, according to R-CALF.

Stern said a decision could come within two to four months.
 

QUESTION

Well-known member
I'm sure the r-calfers will claim victory until the decision is made public then they will quietly slink off and say no big deal when they lose officially. :roll: Kinda tuff when the judge isn't in your pocket :p .
I find the statement :???: funny that the US is suffering from the fall out of canadian BSE cases :roll: , the reality is the reason for foreign countries banning US beef is not canadian cattle it is the fact that the US has indeginouse cases of bse that cannot be traced out.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Kato-- They say patience is a virtue...I've been fighting the fraud regarding the sale of imported beef as US product for almost 10 years now-- and I think in the next year I will see my patience rewarded...

Each one of these issues/events is just one battle in a much bigger war--but with the uproar and rebellion that is beginning in our country against the neoconservative Globalists- and the awakening of a Nationalist movement against the sellout of our producers/employees/small business/products and national sovereignty, I see a brighter light toward the tunnels end daily.....
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
R-CALF's lawyers should of presented USDA's effective date of Canada's feed ban and then asked if anybody who would make such a assinine statement could be considered credible on any statement concerning Canada's BSE. Done deal, R-CALF wins in a pin 10 seconds into the trial.
 

Kato

Well-known member
Just a bit of follow up on this story.

It was posted in the Globe and Mail. Here's some of the responses from mostly Canadian readers. I suspect most of these people are NOT in the cattle business. It's apparent that we, at least have the support of our citizens. This is a reflection of how Canadians view Canadian beef, not necessarily the opinions of experts. How your customers view your product is the most important thing to protect.

This is what happens when you keep consumer confidence. I have removed the names, because it's cut and pasted, and they didn't intend their names to be posted here. There are lots of other comments, but some ramble into other subjects. (gee... how does that sound familiar? :wink: ) If you want to read all the comments, go to http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070713.wmadcow0713/CommentStory/International/home#comment

*****from Canada writes: Is R Calf still bringing some stock north of the border to feed because it is cheaper? I dont think they were all that concerned about their stock getting mad cow.
Back in SK, I have a good friend that raises both beef and dairy cows. He is a firm believer that with the cross border trade in cattle, if it is up here, they have it in their cattle too. The Americans are just better at hiding the dead carcasses.

******Woodville, Canada writes: George Bush tried so hard during his visit to Moscow to get Russia to import their beef, but he didn't succeed. However, from the news last week I see that Canada made a big shipment of beef to Russia. Wow, I wonder how that went down with Georgie.

:) Actually it was a couple of thousand head of breeding stock. :)

******from Canada writes: Given that we have had a fully intergrated cattle system for years, that our feeding practices were exactly the same, and that the American herd is much bigger than ours there is exactly ZERO chance that they do not have BSE in their cattle.

Kathy will like this one. :wink:

*****from Toronto, Canada writes: Way back when in 1980-2, Stanley B Prusiner announced the existance of prions. He was dismissed as an idiot. Later, Richard Marsh was investigating Transmissible Mink Encephalopathy, at a mink ranch in Stetsonville, WI, in 1985. In the herd of 7,300 adult mink, 60 percent of the animals died. Marsh came to the conclusion that that the mink "were fed a diet composed of fresh meat products from Downer cattle and commercial sources of fish, poultry, and cereal. Downer cattle are nonambulatory and cannot rise because they are affected with a condition such as a metabolic disease, broken limbs, or central nervous system disorder. Marsh theorized that the meat from these downer cattle introduced a TSE agent to the mink in which TME resulted." This work was vigorously suppressed by the American Cattlemen's Association, and a determined effort was made to discredit Marsh by that group. They mostly succeded. It took a while, but both Prusiner and Marsh were vindicated. Tragically, it took the BSE and nCJD outbreak in the UK to bring the reputations and work of both into the light and "legitimacy". The ACA suppressed Marsh's work because it proved a link between using diseased carcasses as feed and BSE. The nCJD link was established later, despite evidence from Papua-New Guinea related to canabalistic practices going back to the late 50's. The reason the ACA worked so hard to suppress Marsh's work was greed. As in: this would have cost a market for otherwise unsaleable cattle carcasses. My, how chickens come home to roost. The current attempt by R-CALF to prevent imports of Canadian beef is self-serving protectionism. It would be useful to find out how may members of R-CALF were directly involved in the suppression of Marsh and his work. These people should be sued by all the world. They should also be severly punished for being the authors of a huge public health problem. Never mind the economic costs. These REMFs haven't learened from experience. Fight them.

*****from Nanaimo BC CANADA, Canada writes:
Personally I think Canada should FORGET ABOUT THE USA as a market for beef and should focus on Japan and Taiwan where consumers appreciate and relish good beef. In Taipei I saw beef at about the equivalent of about $20/lb. Mind you is was beautifully marbled........and was as tender as a maidens heart.

China is fast coming up into the beef market and with trade being in China's favour, the cargo compartments of planes heading west presumably are not as full as the ones coming east into Vancouver laden with computers and fruit and vegetables.

I reckon some of Canada's beef Barons should go on a selling tour in Asia and forget about Washington and all of it's nit-picking rules and regulations.

*****from Arvida, Canada writes: Beef-eating citizens of the U.S. should be glad they are getting to eat Canadian beef which has been federally inspected rather than having U.S. cattle industry inspect inspect their own cattle. Our beef doesn't have as must steroids nor antibiotics injected into it.
I only wish our supermarkets were not dumping USDA beef here in Canada. We don't need boosted meat here.

****** from United States writes: Best steak I have ever had in my whole life was at a restaurant in Antigonish, Nova Scotia. It was Alberta Beef. No wonder the beef lobby down here is trying to ban your beef. It is like comparing chicken salad to chicken sh!t.

*****makes an excellent point by questioning the current practice of the US cattle industry being their own watchdogs. I have no doubt there are cases of mad cow down here, we just don't get to hear about it, it is covered up.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
"from Canada writes: Is R Calf still bringing some stock north of the border to feed because it is cheaper? "

Display of intelligence there - R-CALF doesn't own a single cow. You're quoting some real Einsteins there, Kato. :roll: :lol: :lol:
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
"from Canada writes: Is R Calf still bringing some stock north of the border to feed because it is cheaper? "

Display of intelligence there - R-CALF doesn't own a single cow. You're quoting some real Einsteins there, Kato. :roll: :lol: :lol:

Hi there sandy, lil' buddy :kid: ! Out there parading your spectacular wisdom again, are ya? Seems that the writer of that letter was using a minimum of words to express something that many would understand without excessive explanation.

Your reply shows that perhaps you are no Einstein yourself . . . .
:dunce:




:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Maple Leaf Angus said:
Sandhusker said:
"from Canada writes: Is R Calf still bringing some stock north of the border to feed because it is cheaper? "

Display of intelligence there - R-CALF doesn't own a single cow. You're quoting some real Einsteins there, Kato. :roll: :lol: :lol:

Hi there sandy, lil' buddy :kid: ! Out there parading your spectacular wisdom again, are ya? Seems that the writer of that letter was using a minimum of words to express something that many would understand without excessive explanation.

Your reply shows that perhaps you are no Einstein yourself . . . .
:dunce:




:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:


Seems that writer of the letter should use more words if they want to express anything that is close to being accurate. Problems is, that wouldn't make R-CALF the big boogey man you need them to be.
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
Sandhusker lil' buddy :kid: , are you going to deny that R-Calf members (remember, the group who push for a closed border?) bought and kept Canadian stockers or feeders north of the border, at very depressed prices, hoping to capitalize on an upswing in the market in the event the the border would re-open?

Apparently, common sense is not so common among r-calfers. In one case, shortly after the border closing in '03, one of your dimwitted ilk parked his pickup in the parking lot at a western Canadian salebarn.

His rather conspicuos "R-CALF" bumper or window sticker made him the center of some rather unwelcome attention from a number of Canadian producers who quite justifyibly failed to see him as a "friendly". Prolly a good thing I wasn't there as I would have strongly shared their sentiment!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Accounts of such actions by rcalfers were well-publicized across this country and have not been forgotten. Some who speak out , as Kato posted above, may not have a full command of the context, details and language of our industry.

However, does that invalidate their views, especially when their thoughts are quite representative of the truth? OOOps, there I slipped up again! I used the word "truth", which is another word that you will likely need to have explained to you. :dunce: Let me know when you have a bit of extra time for a lesson!

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Maple Leaf Angus said:
Sandhusker lil' buddy :kid: , are you going to deny that R-Calf members (remember, the group who push for a closed border?) bought and kept Canadian stockers or feeders north of the border, at very depressed prices, hoping to capitalize on an upswing in the market in the event the the border would re-open?

Apparently, common sense is not so common among r-calfers. In one case, shortly after the border closing in '03, one of your dimwitted ilk parked his pickup in the parking lot at a western Canadian salebarn.

His rather conspicuos "R-CALF" bumper or window sticker made him the center of some rather unwelcome attention from a number of Canadian producers who quite justifyibly failed to see him as a "friendly". Prolly a good thing I wasn't there as I would have strongly shared their sentiment!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Accounts of such actions by rcalfers were well-publicized across this country and have not been forgotten. Some who speak out , as Kato posted above, may not have a full command of the context, details and language of our industry.

However, does that invalidate their views, especially when their thoughts are quite representative of the truth? OOOps, there I slipped up again! I used the word "truth", which is another word that you will likely need to have explained to you. :dunce: Let me know when you have a bit of extra time for a lesson!

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Did some R-CALF members buy Canadian calves? - probably. Was it approved by the orginization? - no. Were there very many members buying Canadian cattle? - undoubtedly no. Does R-CALF the org. control what members do? - no. What percentage of membership can you show that bought Canadian calves? - probably can't name a single one. Ever see a member of a political party go against their party? - sure, but we're ignoring comparables here so we can demonize R-CALF instead of addressing the real problem, which is two foreign packers controlling everything and sending beef to one country. :roll:
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
Did some R-CALF members buy Canadian calves? - probably. Was it approved by the orginization? - no. Were there very many members buying Canadian cattle? - undoubtedly no. Does R-CALF the org. control what members do? - no. What percentage of membership can you show that bought Canadian calves? - probably can't name a single one. Ever see a member of a political party go against their party? - sure, but we're ignoring comparables here so we can demonize R-CALF instead of addressing the real problem, which is two foreign packers controlling everything and sending beef to one country. :roll:


:shock: :shock: :shock: [Was it approved by the orginization? - no.] :shock: :shock: :shock:

Well say it ain't so - there is actually a level (on a descending scale, I suppose) of hypocrisy that even r-calfers find unpalatable? :lol2:


And then when cattle buyers balked at buying these market-ready cattle, some wondered why the r-calf-member/owners were treated so unfairly . . . .


Sandhusker lil' buddy :kid:, outside of your little protectionist world, there are some who recoil at double standards. Don't even bother trying to drag the idea of someone else trying to demonize r-calfusa - what you are seeing might just be your own reflection in the mirror of public perception. :dunce:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
You want to talk about double standards? How about the standard applied to the first 22 countries that found BSE and then #23? You "anti-protectionists" don't like to cover that topic much, do you? :roll:

MLA, there are some who recoil at being sold out by their own government and refuse to accept our forefathers had any intention of granting any "deference". What you parrot as "protectionist", I call a responsible citizen and progressive businesman. Maybe Socialism has penetrated you enough that you don't understand the concept of recognizing a governmental screw job and then standing up against it. Rolling over is what got you in the mess you're in - pardon us if we learn from your mistakes.

Do yourself a favor and borrow a dictionary. Look up "protectionist".
 

Maple Leaf Angus

Well-known member
Actually, Sandy lil'buddy, :kid: I've never had any qualms about owning a dictionary or using it! Such resources are not nearly as threatening as you may think! :lol:

You seem to think that our beef is a high-risk product. Terry/flounder has extrapolated that the U.S. herd has probably had about 2600 undetected BSE cows entering the food chain, using the most conservative figures.

Combining this knowledge with full recognition of your astute social conscience leads me to think that you must be spending all of your time imploring and/or suing your government to cease all exports of American beef to other countries.

:lol2: :lol2:

I salute your efforts! :tiphat:


:lol2: :lol2:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Maple Leaf Angus said:
You seem to think that our beef is a high-risk product.

Problem is its a highly esteemed US agency (US Center for Disease Control)--made up of Doctors and Scientists that is saying the Canadian beef/cattle is 26 times the risk of US cattle/beef... Which is what the headlines of all the papers and consumer websites are saying this week- which again is another reason that US consumers are DEMANDING info on Country of Origin Labeling so they can make an informed choice of what they buy- and what country it comes from...

The Canadian BSE/border issue and the Chinese purposely tainted food products issues have awoken the consumers....

This is no longer the day of the consumer that the USDA/NCBA/AMI- can say "them thar dum folk will eat wahtever we stick in front of them from wharever- or be damned" like they have been getting away with for the past years.......
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
MLA, "You seem to think that our beef is a high-risk product"

No, I don't think I would call it HIGH risk, but only a fool would say there is no risk, and only a fool would keep the front door open when they were trying to rid the house of flies.


Some of you Canucks love to point out the holes in our feed ban, but you won't acknowledge the relationship those holes will have with the prions that will be present in the SRMs of your cattle that you think we have to accept. I think that's pretty foolish and hypocritical - but then I'm just a protectionist.
 

Kato

Well-known member
I posted the quotes because they reflect the opinions of people who are not in our business, but they are our customers. They live in cities, and buy our product. They don't know the difference between a steer and a heifer, any more than we know how long it takes to get downtown on the subway. What they do know is that they can trust us to tell the truth.

I posted the quotes to illustrate that no matter how much rhetoric gets tossed about regarding the safety of our beef, the truth in the eyes of the most important people in the equation is that our beef is as safe as yours, if not safer.

In the long run it doesn't matter what packers do, or how much they make, or who imports what, if you lose your customers. These people's opinions are to be valued above all. These people's trust is to be valued above all, because without them, we are all moving to town.

We have earned their trust through a lot of blood sweat and tears, and we are not about to dismiss their opinions. I don't see anything in their comments that reflect that they live in a country of "tainted unsafe beef", as some would like to say.

Repeat..

****** from United States writes: Best steak I have ever had in my whole life was at a restaurant in Antigonish, Nova Scotia. It was Alberta Beef. No wonder the beef lobby down here is trying to ban your beef. It is like comparing chicken salad to chicken sh!t.

Sounds to me like at least one American beef consumer would like MCOOL so he can find some Canadian beef to buy. :wink: :wink:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Kato "...the truth in the eyes of the most important people in the equation is that our beef is as safe as yours, if not safer."

Great. Keep it up there and give them all they want.

Kato, "Sounds to me like at least one American beef consumer would like MCOOL so he can find some Canadian beef to buy."

Then what's your problem with COOL?
 
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