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packer monopoly

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
With less meat packers, life in small town America has changed,less ranchers, less small feedlots and fewer jobs,less small buisnesses....... Small town America is no more,it's dieing from the inside,that's packer monopoly.
Ranchers lose their land, feedlot owners lose their businesses and workers lose their jobs.
Kids move to town and small town America dies a little more.
More beef is imported, and while U.S. cattle herds get smaller, cattle herds in the rest of the world get bigger.
I dont reckon that will change.........thank God I wont live to see the end,paved asphalt, tall buildings and crowds aint no place for a hick like me.
good luck
 

redrobin

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
With less meat packers, life in small town America has changed,less ranchers, less small feedlots and fewer jobs,less small buisnesses....... Small town America is no more,it's dieing from the inside,that's packer monopoly.
Ranchers lose their land, feedlot owners lose their businesses and workers lose their jobs.
Kids move to town and small town America dies a little more.
More beef is imported, and while U.S. cattle herds get smaller, cattle herds in the rest of the world get bigger.
I dont reckon that will change.........thank God I wont live to see the end,paved asphalt, tall buildings and crowds aint no place for a hick like me.
good luck
There's only one way to stop it hay maker and it's with less government regulation , not more. Pass laws where anybody can process and sell meat without the need for government inspection. That's the way it was and it worked fine.
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
redrobin said:
HAY MAKER said:
With less meat packers, life in small town America has changed,less ranchers, less small feedlots and fewer jobs,less small buisnesses....... Small town America is no more,it's dieing from the inside,that's packer monopoly.
Ranchers lose their land, feedlot owners lose their businesses and workers lose their jobs.
Kids move to town and small town America dies a little more.
More beef is imported, and while U.S. cattle herds get smaller, cattle herds in the rest of the world get bigger.
I dont reckon that will change.........thank God I wont live to see the end,paved asphalt, tall buildings and crowds aint no place for a hick like me.
good luck
There's only one way to stop it hay maker and it's with less government regulation , not more. Pass laws where anybody can process and sell meat without the need for government inspection. That's the way it was and it worked fine.

I wish it was that simple,the cattle industry is a multibillion dollar industry,too many hired guns looking for and buying loopholes into law,sometimes I dont think there is an answer,things change and not always for the better.
The greastest assest this country has is small town America and all we do is watch it die.
good luck
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Too Big to Fail Strikes Agriculture



Source: Organization for Competitive Markets

Nov 23, 2010



Lincoln, Nebraska: The American economy is now pockmarked with evidence of economic landmines—leaving huge craters after each and every “too big to fail” episode.



Banks, auto manufacturers, airlines, and industries across the economy have been devastated largely because of concentration of market power in few firms and management arrogance that each is too big to fail.



Until now, agriculture seems to have drawn an exemption from the process. But, the latest crater left from a detonated large firm’s failure is in the cattle business.



Eastern Livestock LLC, New Albany, Indiana, is a big name in cattle country. Eastern’s business—matching buyers with sellers of calves big enough to leave the ranch and enter feedyards—was the dominant company in the industry. It may have handled nearly onethird of all US cattle.



According to papers filed in court in Indiana, Eastern’s revenue tripled during the past year. But, this was because it was trading with itself—kiting checks so its money movement looked like it was three times the true volume. The banks caught on, stopped the check kiting, and Eastern collapsed.



The Grain Inspection Packers & Stockyards Agency (“GIPSA”), a USDA agency responsible for oversight of cattle traders, has been on the spot. GIPSA audited Eastern in 2010 and was trying to regulate the firm.



But GIPSA’s authority is very limited. The maximum bond it could require to protect unpaid livestock sellers was $875,000—less than one percent of the total estimated losses caused by Eastern’s demise.



GIPSA is in the process of issuing new rules to regulate the marketplace. The proposed rules would have only a modest effect on a firm like Eastern, but they have drawn the ire of big players in the cattle, hog, and poultry industries. The biggest packers and producers call the proposed new regulations “draconian” and claim they will “set the meat industry back 50 years.”



OCM’s General Counsel, David A. Domina said: “Too big to fail is simply not working; too big to fail is a failure in and of itself. The collapse of this massive firm is going to be devastating to thousands of cattlemen, sale barns, truckers, ranch hands, and many others.




It may take years to sort out the full scale of devastation. We cannot allow this kind of concentration to continue.”



Eastern Livestock’s business is now in the hands of a court-appointed receiver. All indications are the firm’s principals can expect more, and more complex, legal problems

to come.



competitivemarkets.com
 

redrobin

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Too Big to Fail Strikes Agriculture



Source: Organization for Competitive Markets

Nov 23, 2010



Lincoln, Nebraska: The American economy is now pockmarked with evidence of economic landmines—leaving huge craters after each and every “too big to fail” episode.



Banks, auto manufacturers, airlines, and industries across the economy have been devastated largely because of concentration of market power in few firms and management arrogance that each is too big to fail.



Until now, agriculture seems to have drawn an exemption from the process. But, the latest crater left from a detonated large firm’s failure is in the cattle business.



Eastern Livestock LLC, New Albany, Indiana, is a big name in cattle country. Eastern’s business—matching buyers with sellers of calves big enough to leave the ranch and enter feedyards—was the dominant company in the industry. It may have handled nearly onethird of all US cattle.



According to papers filed in court in Indiana, Eastern’s revenue tripled during the past year. But, this was because it was trading with itself—kiting checks so its money movement looked like it was three times the true volume. The banks caught on, stopped the check kiting, and Eastern collapsed.



The Grain Inspection Packers & Stockyards Agency (“GIPSA”), a USDA agency responsible for oversight of cattle traders, has been on the spot. GIPSA audited Eastern in 2010 and was trying to regulate the firm.



But GIPSA’s authority is very limited. The maximum bond it could require to protect unpaid livestock sellers was $875,000—less than one percent of the total estimated losses caused by Eastern’s demise.



GIPSA is in the process of issuing new rules to regulate the marketplace. The proposed rules would have only a modest effect on a firm like Eastern, but they have drawn the ire of big players in the cattle, hog, and poultry industries. The biggest packers and producers call the proposed new regulations “draconian” and claim they will “set the meat industry back 50 years.”



OCM’s General Counsel, David A. Domina said: “Too big to fail is simply not working; too big to fail is a failure in and of itself. The collapse of this massive firm is going to be devastating to thousands of cattlemen, sale barns, truckers, ranch hands, and many others.




It may take years to sort out the full scale of devastation. We cannot allow this kind of concentration to continue.”



Eastern Livestock’s business is now in the hands of a court-appointed receiver. All indications are the firm’s principals can expect more, and more complex, legal problems

to come.



competitivemarkets.com
What's your point in this post? Do you think eastern is a packer?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Monopoly - "Exclusive control of the supply of a product or service in a particular market".

How can the packing industry be a "monopoly" when there is more than one major packer?

Tyson

Smithfield

Excel

JBS

USPB

and numerous level 2 packers.

Like many other major industries, the packing industry is dominated by 3 - 5 major companies that control the majority of cattle slaughter.

Do you not believe that these major packers are competing for the same cattle? Do you believe they offer the same price and ignore what their expenses are relative to the price of beef and beef by products? How do you explain the movement in the cattle markets?

The packing industry is not a monopoly.

Coke and Pepsi have a major controlling interest in the soft drink industry, why is there no outcry from consumers about that?

Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler control a major portion of the automobile industry. Why is there no outcry from consumers about that?

Why is nobody wanting to break up the major companies in the auto industry. Hey, didn't the government bail out GM? How can that be when they control such a large portion of the auto industry?

Is the cattle/beef industry the only industry with such an active blaming segment?


~SH~
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Monopoly - "Exclusive control of the supply of a product or service in a particular market".

How can the packing industry be a "monopoly" when there is more than one major packer?

Tyson

Smithfield

Excel

JBS

USPB

and numerous level 2 packers.

Like many other major industries, the packing industry is dominated by 3 - 5 major companies that control the majority of cattle slaughter.

Do you not believe that these major packers are competing for the same cattle? Do you believe they offer the same price and ignore what their expenses are relative to the price of beef and beef by products? How do you explain the movement in the cattle markets?

The packing industry is not a monopoly.

Coke and Pepsi have a major controlling interest in the soft drink industry, why is there no outcry from consumers about that?

Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler control a major portion of the automobile industry. Why is there no outcry from consumers about that?

Why is nobody wanting to break up the major companies in the auto industry. Hey, didn't the government bail out GM? How can that be when they control such a large portion of the auto industry?

Is the cattle/beef industry the only industry with such an active blaming segment?


~SH~

comparin apples to oranges again sh,you caint compare reputable buisness men to a packer,bout like me comparin a damn hog to a registered quarter horse.
good luck
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hayseed: "comparin apples to oranges again sh,you caint compare reputable buisness men to a packer,bout like me comparin a damn hog to a registered quarter horse."

So you believe the packing industry is not a reputable business?


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Hayseed: "comparin apples to oranges again sh,you caint compare reputable buisness men to a packer,bout like me comparin a damn hog to a registered quarter horse."

So you believe the packing industry is not a reputable business?


~SH~

Ask Ben Roberts that....
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker: "Ask Ben Roberts that...."

Just because Ben Robert's views support what you want to believe does that mean that his views are all based on factual information? Were those views used in the Pickett case?

I'd rather believe what the courts proved and countless GIPSA investigations into "ALLEGED" market manipulation and price fixing rather than opinions but you already knew that or I would support R-CALF like you.


~SH~
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Hayseed: "comparin apples to oranges again sh,you caint compare reputable buisness men to a packer,bout like me comparin a damn hog to a registered quarter horse."

So you believe the packing industry is not a reputable business?


~SH~

meat packers have a very long reputation of coruption and rackateering,There is no tellin how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they paid in fines to keep their sorry ass outa the pen,you think they are reputable buisness men,then I think you are guillible enuff to buy hair restorer from a bald barber .
good luck
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hayseed: "meat packers have a very long reputation of coruption and rackateering,There is no tellin how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they paid in fines to keep their sorry ass outa the pen,you think they are reputable buisness men,then I think you are guillible enuff to buy hair restorer from a bald barber ."

Hahaha! That's a good piece of advise. Don't buy hair restorer from a bald barber. Haha!

I believe in the presumption of innocense. I don't believe any business is not reputable until they have been proven not to be reputable. That's where packer blamers like you fall short. "Presumption of innocense" obviously is not a concept you grasp.


~SH~
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Hayseed: "meat packers have a very long reputation of coruption and rackateering,There is no tellin how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they paid in fines to keep their sorry ass outa the pen,you think they are reputable buisness men,then I think you are guillible enuff to buy hair restorer from a bald barber ."

Hahaha! That's a good piece of advise. Don't buy hair restorer from a bald barber. Haha!

I believe in the presumption of innocense. I don't believe any business is not reputable until they have been proven not to be reputable. That's where packer blamers like you fall short. "Presumption of innocense" obviously is not a concept you grasp.


~SH~

We are not talkin about presumptions,we are talkin about convicted thugs.
Presumptions are null and void when your ass has been convicted/fined and or jailed.
sh surely you aint dummb enuff to paint packers as honest buisness folk ?
I always wondered about you..........you see having common sense aint good enough,you gotta exercise it.
good luck
 

redrobin

Well-known member
Haymaker if I agree with you that the packer influence is too great in the beef chain with their captive supply ability, and I'm not sure I do, what's the fix? You don't like my thoughts on less government protection for the packers. What's your favorite plan? More government regulations?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hayseed,

I don't really know why I waste my time arguing with you when you don't seem to understand even the most basic concept.

If packers were truly as dishonest as you seem to believe, the plaintiffs in Pickett would have had a better platform to stand on then trying to convince a jury that dropping your price in the cash market to reflect your purchases through other venues would constitute market manipulation. If that verdict had stood, it would have opened the door for lawsuits if a feeder dropped the price he was willing to pay in the cash market due to purchases he/she made through other venues. You can't set a standard of socialized markets for the packing industry and not have it apply to purchases of cattle in general.

Countless investigations were conducted by GIPSA into allegations of market manipulation and price fixing. The vast majority of those investigations revealed nothing.

That doesn't matter to you does it? By Gawd the packers are screwing producers and that's just the way it is because that's what you want to believe.

How pathetic.


~SH~
 

Beefman

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
~SH~ said:
Hayseed: "meat packers have a very long reputation of coruption and rackateering,There is no tellin how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they paid in fines to keep their sorry ass outa the pen,you think they are reputable buisness men,then I think you are guillible enuff to buy hair restorer from a bald barber ."

Hahaha! That's a good piece of advise. Don't buy hair restorer from a bald barber. Haha!

I believe in the presumption of innocense. I don't believe any business is not reputable until they have been proven not to be reputable. That's where packer blamers like you fall short. "Presumption of innocense" obviously is not a concept you grasp.


~SH~

We are not talkin about presumptions,we are talkin about convicted thugs.
Presumptions are null and void when your ass has been convicted/fined and or jailed.
sh surely you aint dummb enuff to paint packers as honest buisness folk ?
I always wondered about you..........you see having common sense aint good enough,you gotta exercise it.
good luck

Haymaker, gotta compliment you on something. The youtube video in your signature line, 'Last Cowboy Song' song by Ed Bruce is clearly his best work. Saw him sign it live in Ft Worth - believe it was 1985. He also sang Streets of Laredo better than anyone else has.

Since you have such disdain for the packing industry, does this also mean that when you sell calves at the salebarn, you stand up and announce that you do not want your calves sold to any packer that might want to feed them. Correct?
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
Hayseed,

I don't really know why I waste my time arguing with you when you don't seem to understand even the most basic concept.

If packers were truly as dishonest as you seem to believe, the plaintiffs in Pickett would have had a better platform to stand on then trying to convince a jury that dropping your price in the cash market to reflect your purchases through other venues would constitute market manipulation. If that verdict had stood, it would have opened the door for lawsuits if a feeder dropped the price he was willing to pay in the cash market due to purchases he/she made through other venues. You can't set a standard of socialized markets for the packing industry and not have it apply to purchases of cattle in general.

Countless investigations were conducted by GIPSA into allegations of market manipulation and price fixing. The vast majority of those investigations revealed nothing.

That doesn't matter to you does it? By Gawd the packers are screwing producers and that's just the way it is because that's what you want to believe.

How pathetic.


~SH~

then git your sorry ass movin tuck your tail like you did before and git!!
remind me of some of those damn currs hangin around my barns lookin for a handout.
ever question you asked has been answered many times by many folks and you just keep askin like a damn broke record.
guess you figger if you ask long enuff,bound to get the answer you wanna hear right ?
good luck & good bye.
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
redrobin said:
Haymaker if I agree with you that the packer influence is too great in the beef chain with their captive supply ability, and I'm not sure I do, what's the fix? You don't like my thoughts on less government protection for the packers. What's your favorite plan? More government regulations?

what do you mean "if" you agree,i have never met a cattleman that did not have a stance on the proposed GIPSA Rule,read it and you tell me"if" you agree.
good luck
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Beefman said:
HAY MAKER said:
~SH~ said:
Hahaha! That's a good piece of advise. Don't buy hair restorer from a bald barber. Haha!

I believe in the presumption of innocense. I don't believe any business is not reputable until they have been proven not to be reputable. That's where packer blamers like you fall short. "Presumption of innocense" obviously is not a concept you grasp.


~SH~

We are not talkin about presumptions,we are talkin about convicted thugs.
Presumptions are null and void when your ass has been convicted/fined and or jailed.
sh surely you aint dummb enuff to paint packers as honest buisness folk ?
I always wondered about you..........you see having common sense aint good enough,you gotta exercise it.
good luck

Haymaker, gotta compliment you on something. The youtube video in your signature line, 'Last Cowboy Song' song by Ed Bruce is clearly his best work. Saw him sign it live in Ft Worth - believe it was 1985. He also sang Streets of Laredo better than anyone else has.

Since you have such disdain for the packing industry, does this also mean that when you sell calves at the salebarn, you stand up and announce that you do not want your calves sold to any packer that might want to feed them. Correct?

packers are a necessary evil,i realize that,need to keep em on a short rope.
No one no where will ever convince me packers are worth the money that they get for what they do.
good luck
 

redrobin

Well-known member
HAY MAKER said:
redrobin said:
Haymaker if I agree with you that the packer influence is too great in the beef chain with their captive supply ability, and I'm not sure I do, what's the fix? You don't like my thoughts on less government protection for the packers. What's your favorite plan? More government regulations?

what do you mean "if" you agree,i have never met a cattleman that did not have a stance on the proposed GIPSA Rule,read it and you tell me"if" you agree.
good luck
I'm against the new GIPSA rule. Now answer my question. What's your plan?
 
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