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Packers With Too Much Power over "Facts"?

Econ101

Well-known member
Official: Cattle paper trail leads to Canada



By Kevin Woster, Journal staff

The Rapid City Journal

February 8, 2007

South Dakota, US

The South Dakota state veterinarian said Wednesday that eight Canadian cattle condemned at a packing plant in Nebraska for being improperly sold to a Wessington Springs farmer apparently were shipped directly from Canada to the plant.



Dr. Sam Holland of Pierre said an ongoing investigation into the incident by the U.S. Department of Agriculture has convinced him that a mix-up at the Swift and Co. plant in Grand Island led officials there to mistakenly believe the cattle had come in with a load that belonged to Jan Vandyke of Wessington Springs.



The cattle were condemned, and Vandyke initially was denied payment for eight Canadian fat cattle believed to have come into the plant in a load of 43 from his farm. Vandyke eventually was paid, however. And further investigation by USDA indicated that the Canadian cattle were never in Vandyke's pasture, Holland said.



"You go two ways. Either there was a mix-up at the plant, or they came in with Vandyke's shipment," Holland said. "The records that are available now surely indicate that these were indeed fat cattle from Canada delivered direct to the plant."



Those records include a health certificate from a private veterinarian in Canada, an endorsement by Canadian officials, verification at the border and sealed records shipped with the cattle to the Swift plant. Holland said the paper trail leading from Canada directly to the Nebraska plant "appears pretty irrefutable."



The USDA requires live cattle coming from Canada for slaughter in the United States to be younger than 30 months old. They must be shipped in sealed trucks directly to slaughterhouses or to specific feedlots until they are slaughtered.



When the initial reports indicated that the Canadian cattle had come through a South Dakota market and unknowingly been fed and sold to Swift by Vandyke, critics of USDA's Canadian import policies said it showed the system was porous. But Holland said strong evidence shows that the system worked in this case, except for the mix-up at the plant.



Vandyke said in a news release by the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association last week that he didn't know there was a problem until Swift officials notified him that Canadian cattle had been found in his load. Vandyke said he had bought feeders at a South Dakota market.



Vandyke said he was later contacted by a USDA inspector who told him that the investigation showed that the Canadian cattle were mixed with his load at the plant and had never been on his farm. Vandyke continues to question that conclusion, however, saying that when he later saw ear tags taken from the Canadian cattle they were the same as some he had seen on cattle at his place.



Holland said he wouldn't dispute Vandyke's statements or beliefs.



"They showed him pictures of the tags, and he said he believes he saw those tags on some of his cattle in his feedlot," Holland said. "I surely don't fault the farmer-feeder. He sincerely believes he saw those tags in his lot. But the records seem to indicate the mix-up occurred at the plant."



Holland said the investigation is continuing, and that USDA officials are unlikely to discuss it. But he hopes they issue a public report when the investigation concludes.



"It appears the paperwork on those cattle is valid. The only question is, if that's the case, how did they get mixed up at the plant?" Holland said.



"And will we someday see an explanation? I think the farmer-feeder and the industry deserve that report."



rapidcityjournal.com



Producer still has questions about cattle sale



KTIC 840 Rural Radio

Feb 8, 2007



ABERDEEN, S.D. (AP) _ The Agriculture Department says it's concluded that Canadian cattle delivered to a packing plant in Nebraska came directly from Canada and not from a South Dakota producer.



The U-S-D-A has restrictions on Canadian imports to guard against mad cow disease.



The packing plant initially withheld payment to Jan Vandyke for seven head of Canadian cattle thought to have come from his Wessington Springs farm. But now the U-S-D-A and State Veterinarian Sam Holland say paperwork shows they came directly from Canada as allowed.



Vandyke says he believes those findings are incorrect. He says he bought the cattle at livestock markets in South Dakota a year ago and fed them for slaughter.



Vandyke says he agrees with American cattle groups that the U-S-D-A's cattle importation process is faulty.



kticam.com
 

Econ101

Well-known member
I have a question here:

Did the packer go ahead and process these cattle for sale or wait until the issue was resolved before they processed them? If they processed them before the facts of their age was documented properly while trying to enforce this law against the feeder, does that mean they were above the law but able to force sellers to follow it?

It would seem to me that if they could hold money out from a producer with the excuse of not being able to sell them in the U.S., that they would have to hold those cattle back and not process them in order to follow the law they meant to impose on the feeder.

Does anyone know the answer? Were these cattle held back until their age was known since they were from Canada (the reason they did not pay the feeder)?

SH, this is one you might be able to answer.
 

TimH

Well-known member
Vandyke says he believes those findings are incorrect. He says he bought the cattle at livestock markets in South Dakota a year ago and fed them for slaughter.

If those findings are incorrect, Mr.Vandyke should be able to offer some proof of his claims... Sale barn records, etc.
I don't think that "I remember seeing some tags that looked like that" is going to cut it,in this case.
Surely he can at least prove when and where he bought them,and who consigned them to the salebarn. If he bought them a year ago, and they just finished at the end of November,they were probably lightweight feeders/grassers when he bought them. How hard can it be to provide a little proof to back his claim.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
How hard can it be for Swift to say, "Hey, we've got 7 Canuck cattle here - lets compare the tags to the Canadian cattle we've bought and see if they match"
 

Econ101

Well-known member
It seems as if the USDA has already conceded the point that the cattle came from Canada (legally) but were mixed at the packing plant by the packing plant, according to the records. The proof of being under 30 months does not lie with every domestic producer, but with those who import cattle. In this case it seems to be the packer. They just tried to make the domestic producer pay the costs.

My big question is, why are packers able to impose the penalties of law with no process, but they are not held to the same standard?

Should producers always have this burden and packers not? Who bought these cattle from the seller and where was their responsibility in the purchase (seeing cattle with ear tags) when buying them?
 

TimH

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
How hard can it be for Swift to say, "Hey, we've got 7 Canuck cattle here - lets compare the tags to the Canadian cattle we've bought and see if they match"

Which is basicly what they ended up doing Sandhusker. Mr. Vandyke is still claiming that their findings are incorrect. If that is so, he should be able to easily prove it. It should be child's play if he knows when and where he bought them.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
TimH said:
Sandhusker said:
How hard can it be for Swift to say, "Hey, we've got 7 Canuck cattle here - lets compare the tags to the Canadian cattle we've bought and see if they match"

Which is basicly what they ended up doing Sandhusker. Mr. Vandyke is still claiming that their findings are incorrect. If that is so, he should be able to easily prove it. It should be child's play if he knows when and where he bought them.

It took them two months and the USDA's help? Come on - they should of been able to figure it out in 15 min.
 

TimH

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
TimH said:
Sandhusker said:
How hard can it be for Swift to say, "Hey, we've got 7 Canuck cattle here - lets compare the tags to the Canadian cattle we've bought and see if they match"

Which is basicly what they ended up doing Sandhusker. Mr. Vandyke is still claiming that their findings are incorrect. If that is so, he should be able to easily prove it. It should be child's play if he knows when and where he bought them.

It took them two months and the USDA's help? Come on - they should of been able to figure it out in 15 min.

Maybe so Sandhusker. That doesn't change the fact that Mr.Vandyke is disputing their findings, calling them incorrect. He continues to claim that he bought the cattle at a SD salebarn.
Can he prove this claim??? It should be relatively simple if it is true.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
It would have been nice for the producer to have the right to inspect the packer's records instead of the packer demanding of the producer only.

Seems that Canadian (or any other cattle in the US) should be tracked from country of origin to the plate. The cost is minimal (according to Porker).

It seems a little funny that the USDA would push NAIS for domestic producers and not track cattle from other countries. In fact, it seems incredulous.

If this is what domestic producers can expect from the USDA, we need to de-fund their budget and hire some people who can do the job. This would, of course, get rid of the lobbying efforts of big agribusiness who are holding the puppet strings for the USDA and the Secretary of Agriculture.

Maybe Congressmen would have to find more honest ways of paying for their campaigns.
 

flounder

Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Official: Cattle paper trail leads to Canada



kticam.com



hey there econ, glad to see you back. they had a big fuss here over you being gone, and i think old ~SH~ missed you the most, he was all broke up :lol2:


http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16065


tss
 

ocm

Well-known member
TimH said:
Sandhusker said:
How hard can it be for Swift to say, "Hey, we've got 7 Canuck cattle here - lets compare the tags to the Canadian cattle we've bought and see if they match"

Which is basicly what they ended up doing Sandhusker. Mr. Vandyke is still claiming that their findings are incorrect. If that is so, he should be able to easily prove it. It should be child's play if he knows when and where he bought them.

Mr. Vandyke knows exactly when and where he bought them and has their paperworks. It does not indicate they were Canadian. Mr. Vandyke is not the only person who saw pictures of the animals with the tags in their ears (pictures taken by Swift) and remembers both the animals and the tags. If the USDA says the cattle crossed the border directly to slaughter, then they ought to be able to match tag numbers. Bet they can't.
 

cowsense

Well-known member
OCM.............The Canadian industry has those tags definately proven as part of a sealed load of fats crossing the border for slaughter on Nov. 29. The tag numbers are part of the border crossing protocol and are duly reported back to CCIA as well as USDA. These cattle were never in the US until their actual delivery to Swift. It shouldn't be too hard to find the purchase orders for the Van Dyke cattle and determine the actual prior ownership. If there's problems it should be traceable.............it's quite easy to trace cattle back up here!
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
cowsense said:
OCM.............The Canadian industry has those tags definately proven as part of a sealed load of fats crossing the border for slaughter on Nov. 29. The tag numbers are part of the border crossing protocol and are duly reported back to CCIA as well as USDA. These cattle were never in the US until their actual delivery to Swift. It shouldn't be too hard to find the purchase orders for the Van Dyke cattle and determine the actual prior ownership. If there's problems it should be traceable.............it's quite easy to trace cattle back up here!

Who you gonna believe? Both Van Dyke's and the USDA can't be right....
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
I think Im gonna have to go with the USDA on this one. There is no way there would be a screw up on the export papers if these cattle crossed at teh border jsut south of here.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
Yeah, I'm smelling a rat throughout this whole thing.

"Ohhhh yeahhhhh, I remember seeing those odd looking tags. Why didn't we look at them first? Ohhhhh, I dunno. But now we know for sure they were Canadian cattle. Yep. Uh huh."

:roll:

Come on, lets think about this. How does livestock from a SEALED truck get offloaded at a packer, then end up at a salebarn? OUR vet/CFIA/CCIA records (not the USDA's) indicate that this animal was in a sealed load.

What I'm seeing is a rather weak attempt by someone to close the border. Did the packer sell those animals to a salebarn, in the hopes that it would shut the border down and keep the salmon run going up here in Canada? I spose, but I doubt it. They've been doing quite well with political influence. No need to goof around like that.

So, sorry Van Dykes, you'd best come up with some pictures of those animals in your herd with the "odd ear tags", or I'm going to keep calling a spade what it is.

Rod

Rod
 

cowsense

Well-known member
Sandhusker said:
cowsense said:
OCM.............The Canadian industry has those tags definately proven as part of a sealed load of fats crossing the border for slaughter on Nov. 29. The tag numbers are part of the border crossing protocol and are duly reported back to CCIA as well as USDA. These cattle were never in the US until their actual delivery to Swift. It shouldn't be too hard to find the purchase orders for the Van Dyke cattle and determine the actual prior ownership. If there's problems it should be traceable.............it's quite easy to trace cattle back up here!

Who you gonna believe? Both Van Dyke's and the USDA can't be right....

The facts point out that the cattle wearing those tag numbers were never in the US until they crossed the border in a sealed truck destined for slaughter at Swift. The tag numbers and inspection were done by a private vet prior to loading and have been confirmed by CFIA and USDA.
This whole episode was caused by a mistake at the Swift plant!
 

ocm

Well-known member
cowsense said:
Sandhusker said:
cowsense said:
OCM.............The Canadian industry has those tags definately proven as part of a sealed load of fats crossing the border for slaughter on Nov. 29. The tag numbers are part of the border crossing protocol and are duly reported back to CCIA as well as USDA. These cattle were never in the US until their actual delivery to Swift. It shouldn't be too hard to find the purchase orders for the Van Dyke cattle and determine the actual prior ownership. If there's problems it should be traceable.............it's quite easy to trace cattle back up here!

Who you gonna believe? Both Van Dyke's and the USDA can't be right....

The facts point out that the cattle wearing those tag numbers were never in the US until they crossed the border in a sealed truck destined for slaughter at Swift. The tag numbers and inspection were done by a private vet prior to loading and have been confirmed by CFIA and USDA.
This whole episode was caused by a mistake at the Swift plant!

And I don't believe there is any border paperwork with the tag numbers on them.
 

DiamondSCattleCo

Well-known member
ocm said:
And I don't believe there is any border paperwork with the tag numbers on them.

Part of the export process is recording the CCIA tag numbers. As I understand the process, this MUST be done before cattle can enter the USA and this is done both on the Canadian side AND the US side. If not, then how would anyone even know those were Canadian cattle, and not just some US critters that someone is trying to pass off as Canadian?

Rod
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Come on guys, SWIFT COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT THEMSELVES? They are the ones who brought the cattle in, had them less than 24 hours, and they can't match the tags to their records? You've got to be kidding me! Then they bring in the USDA and it takes two months for them to come up with "just a simple mix-up?" If the Canadian cattle just got mixed with Van Dykes, why did they have the proper number get processed? There would have to be 7 head floating around the yards somewhere! You guys are so paraniod you're going to believe an elaborate hoax instead of looking at the obvious?
 

cowsense

Well-known member
Sandhusker; I believe that it is your buddies that want this to be seen as a hoax and that are deliberately prolonging the event in an attempt to discredit the Canadian industry. The identified cattle have been verified by Canadian officials as having crossed the border properly as fed cattle for immediate slaughter. What can be more straight-forward than that!
 
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