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Patriot Act Abused

Econ101

Well-known member
Today's Inspector General's (IG) report on the abuse of the Patriot Act, the national security letters, and other powers to obtain phone and financial records has been abused by the FBI. The FBI did not follow the law in obtaining these records and is now in the hot seat.

Fears of these abuses were expressed by the "liberals", the democrats, and some republicans when the Patriot Act was passed. The Judiciary Committee required the IG to report on the FBI as part of the oversight of the Patriot Act. When Congress changed over to the Democrats, the Bush administration conceded that these powers needed judicial oversight. When the republicans had their rubber stamp out, the administration claimed they had the right to these powers without judicial review.

There will certainly be oversight hearings under Senator Leahy and Specter on these shortcomings of the FBI in following the law. Leahy is very angry about these abuses.

We will see what happens. :mad: :mad:
 

Richard Doolittle

Well-known member
What's the big deal about the Patriot Act anyway if you don't have anything to hide? They can listen to my phone conversations and monitor my email all they want and get bored to death.
 

HrsRdr

Member
Well, of course Leahy is 'upset'. He's as liberal as Pelosi. Specter is a moderate R from a state that can trend lib. Whos surprised. Just another witch hunt. Good to know that the FBI is hard at work. If you don't have anything to hide, so what.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Richard Doolittle said:
What's the big deal about the Patriot Act anyway if you don't have anything to hide? They can listen to my phone conversations and monitor my email all they want and get bored to death.

The abuse of this information. Mostly the fear of the abuse for political purposes and payback.

If the government is using its power to advantage some corporations or individuals, they are engaging in corporate espionage. While most people do not have anything to worry about in this respect, it is a possible problem.

Our democracy requires that those who are not supporters of an administration do not have government powers used against them.

Nixon resigned because he knew his administration was spying on the democrats and tried to cover it up. The time was very similar to now. They had the Vietnam war going and the same excuses were used to justify Watergate.

When the administration uses its powers to continue to have those powers by refusing to respect privacy, we are on the road to a totalitarian government.

I think Clinton should have had more flack for getting the FBI files it obtained. It is the same issue. As citizens, we have the right to not have the government watching our actions unless there are real reasons and oversight of those reasons (warrants for example).

It might not sound like a big deal to most people, and isn't to most people, but how would you like it if the democrats used this power to mess with their political competitors? What if then they got the IRS to audit you just for the hassle?
 

Richard Doolittle

Well-known member
Well, the abuse of power and the misuse of illegally obtained information is the problem. There is enough of it that goes on from both sides of the aisle and it will happen with or without the Patriot Act. I still have enough faith in Government to think that the Patriot Act is necessary and allows the authority to legally obtain useful information against those that hate us and wish to harm us.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Econ101:
It might not sound like a big deal to most people, and isn't to most people, but how would you like it if the democrats used this power to mess with their political competitors? What if then they got the IRS to audit you just for the hassle?

Is that not what they are doing right now investigating every one that worked for the administration,..and every company that was awarded a contract?

In fact even this thread is a result of the Dems trying to hassle the administration.

I am all for oversight of the government,...but the dems want to hassle the FBI,...and tie their hands, all the while fighting for the Terrorists in Gitmo to get brought to the states,...who's side are they on?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
Steve said:
Econ101:
It might not sound like a big deal to most people, and isn't to most people, but how would you like it if the democrats used this power to mess with their political competitors? What if then they got the IRS to audit you just for the hassle?

Is that not what they are doing right now investigating every one that worked for the administration,..and every company that was awarded a contract?

In fact even this thread is a result of the Dems trying to hassle the administration.

I am all for oversight of the government,...but the dems want to hassle the FBI,...and tie their hands, all the while fighting for the Terrorists in Gitmo to get brought to the states,...who's side are they on?

Both Specter and Leahy were upset over the actions of the FBI. They are holding joint hearings on this issue. Specter started the proceedings under the republican congress. Mueller (head of the FBI) was also upset over the actions of his department. This isn't a repub. vs. dems. issue and it isn't about looking into terrorists. Both want that to happen.

We will see what happens after the hearings. We really don't know at this point what the infractions were or how serious they were. If it was just a matter of process, there can be some latitude. If it was more than that, there will be trouble. We just don't know at this point.

I know some of you always want to make these things repubs. vs. dems. Not every issue should be viewed in that manner. If we view everything in that manner, it gives unlimited power to those in charge and that is just not good. That is the problem with the sectarian divides in Iraq. At some point, whether you are in this party or that party, the issue has to be above those questions. We should never allow our government to do certain things just because the ones we like are in power and belong to this or that party. When we go to that level, we the people, begin to lose what makes America worth what it is. Hopefully we have standards for both parties that they have to adhere to.

When the dems. get away with it, the repubs can get away with it next time and vice versa. It just keeps getting worse.
 
Leahy is a Democrat and I can understand why he wants to jam the Bush. Now Arlen Specter I haven't decided if he's got his head on straight or he says one thing in public and does another in private.

Did I hear correctly that Specter inserted the provision in the Patriot Act that allows the prez to appoint a US atty for an indefinite period without Senate approval? What would motivate the prez to appoint anything except an iterim US atty anymore?
 

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