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Pig Wrestling, part 7

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Some quotes from the "special" individual who continually accuses others of deception. This is on the use of CO2 in packaging meats;

SH, "He thinks BSE testing cattle under 24 months of age for Japan with tests that would not reveal bse prions in cattle under 24 months of age is not consumer deception but using CO2 to enhance red meat color through an aging practice is consumer deception after criticizing the packers for not aging."

"CO2 is used to enhance the color THROUGH THE AGING PROCESS. You are the hypocite who criticized packers for not aging then criticize them for deceiving consumers by using CO2 to enhance the color through the aging process. "

"I never said a damn thing about using CO2 to age beef, I said it was used to enhance the color through the aging process"


We all know aging is good, so note the liberal sprinkling of the word "aging". SH is trying to link CO2 with the aging process, yet we all know (including him) that CO2 is used to keep the beef looking fresh when it isn't. It is NOT part of the aging process, it is part of the PACKAGING process. SH knows that meat is aged BEFORE it is individually packaged, but that fact somehow escapes him. You put a beef in the cooler for 21 days and it is aged, you put a steak in a package for 21 days and it is rotten.

Now, who is trying to deceive? Holy Blatant Hypocracy, Batman.
 

the chief

Well-known member
Good golly, Sandhusker, that's good stuff. That "thru the aging process" is almost like it came out of an AMI propoganda piece. :shock:

Oh, maybe it did. :wink:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Manitoba_Rancher said:
When I first seen your pig wrastlin post I thought what the heck is Sandhusker doing down there...... :wink: :lol:

Just let this be a lesson to you, MR, I'm slow to anger, but when you tork me off, I'm going to let you have it! :wink:
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
the chief said:
Good golly, Sandhusker, that's good stuff. That "thru the aging process" is almost like it came out of an AMI propoganda piece. :shock:

Oh, maybe it did. :wink:

And here I once said SH knew nothing about marketing..... :lol:
 

Mike

Well-known member
Sandhusker, I would like to point out a technical glitch in your sparring match with SH. The culprit you are arguing is "Carbon Monoxide".........NOT "Carbon Dioxide". (CO vs. CO2) :wink:


FDA asked to rescind use of carbon monoxide for meats

By Ahmed ElAmin


17/11/2005 - A petition from a food and spice company could end up with the US food regulator rescinding its decision last year allowing processors to use carbon monoxide to keep packaged meat red and fresh-looking.

Carbon monoxide is often used in modified atmosphere packaging (MAP) as a packaging technique for maintaining food quality.

The MAP method works by replacing the air with a mixture of inert gases such as carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and nitrogen. The package is then heat sealed. The low-oxygen mix extends the shelf-life of the meat, vegetables and other perishable foods by up to 15 days from the normal five days, a big plus at a time when the market is working to ensure food safety and extend their markets.

However, carbon monoxide also makes meat appear fresher than it actually is by reacting with the meat pigment myoglobin to create carboxymyoglobin, a bright red pigment that masks any of the natural aging and spoilage of meats, according to a petition filed with the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) by Michigan-based Kalsec.

The FDA approved the practice as safe for use with packaged last year in response to requests from two food companies. The EU prohibits food companies from using carbon monoxide.

Under current US regulation, processors do not have to indicate on the label that their meat products have been treated with carbon monoxide.

In a petition to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Michigan-based Kalsec says the method can hide spoilage and lead to food safety problems.

"The use of carbon monoxide deceives consumers and creates an unnecessary risk of food poisoning by enabling meat and ground beef to remain fresh-looking beyond the point at which typical color changes would indicate ageing or bacterial spoilage," Kalsec stated in its petition.

The petition urges the FDA to withdraw its July 2004 decision and related decisions allowing the use of carbon monoxide in meat packaging. The company argues that the FDA accepted the food companies' applications using a formula known as "Generally Recognized As Safe" (GRAS).

Under the GRAS application process the FDA does not conduct an independent safety investigation of its own, but instead relies on the
notifiers' claims, research and documentation in considering the safety of a product or process in food.

"Carbon monoxide simulates the appearance of freshness, so consumers may actually believe meat is fresh and safe when it may be neither," stated Don Berdahl, Kalsec's vice president and technical director. "We hope the FDA acts quickly to end this deceptive, potentially dangerous practice.".

The company argues that consumers mainly chose their meat based on appearance, and specifically its color. The company says that the practice of treating meat with carbon monoxide could hide the growth of pathogens such as Clostridium Botulinum, Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7.

"If meat is bought spoiled, refrigerated improperly or used after these pathogens begin to grow, even proper cooking might not be sufficient to render the food safe to eat, because certain bacteria produce toxins that survive the cooking process," the company stated.

The company also argues that the FDA should have done its own independent testing of the companies' scientific claims. Kalsec claims the FDA also did not have legal authority to permit the use of carbon monoxide in fresh meat packaging because it is an unapproved and prohibited color additive.

The agency bypassed the required procedure for carbon monoxide to obtain a color additive designation, a necessary precondition for making it legal to use carbon monoxide in fresh meat packaging, the company stated.

The US department of agriculture's regulations prohibit the introduction of ingredients in fresh meat that function to conceal damage or inferiority, or give the appearance the product is of better or greater value.

The use of carbon monoxide has been banned in other countries. In 2003, the EU prohibited the use of carbon monoxide for meat and tuna products. In its decision, the European Commission's food safety regulator stated that "the stable cherry-colour can last beyond the microbial shelf life of the meat and thus mask spoilage."

Several countries including Japan, Canada and Singapore also ban the use of carbon monoxide in tuna.

"At the very least, the public has a right to know about the use of carbon monoxide in their food," Berdahl stated. " If the FDA won't prohibit it, the government should require a label that informs consumers about the presence of carbon monoxide and the health dangers it presents."

"The scientific evidence supports the safety of this packing technology," said James H. Hodges, president of the American Meat Institute Foundation. "It is unfortunate that this competitive attack may create food safety concerns when there are none here."

The original application to the FDA to get approval for the use of carbon monoxide was submitted by Pactiv Corporation and Precept Foods.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
I think Sandhusker's error would fall under an immaterial mistatement of fact. What gets me is that immaterial mistatements of fact are used by SH as if they were material in his arguments.

It is kind of like a typo that one can find in a post. If the typo becomes the center of attention, the substance is conveniently discarded or unduly discredited. Sometimes these are even picked up by the cheerleading squad but this brings their credibilty down also.

Mike, I don't consider you pointing out this error as something that falls into that category. I also don't think that pointing out the vet looking into the mad cow in Alabama as an example. Knowing the difference between a d and a b in a major breed of cattle in the U.S. by a USDA vet working on the case, especially since he spelled it out for the reporter, goes directly to the issue of competence.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
It's been a long time since I've had chemistry, point taken. :lol:

From the article, "However, carbon monoxide also makes meat appear (ILLUSION?)fresher than it actually is...", "The use of carbon monoxide deceives consumers...." And I'm called the deceiver and "ILLUSIONIST" because I beleive in giving the customer what they ask for if they can pay for it.:roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandbag: "SH knows that meat is aged BEFORE it is individually packaged, but that fact somehow escapes him."

WRONG!!!!

A lot of beef that is sold today is aged in Cryovac vacuum sealed packages. It's aged after it's packaged and sealed, not before. That is why CO2 is used to enhance the color of the meat, in some instances, through this aging process. I won't call that a lie. I understand you are just that ignorant of the retail beef industry like most blamers.

If it makes you feel any better, I also confused carbon dioxide with carbon monoxide.

When I fed cattle for PM Beef group, we had to feed vitamin E in our rations 90 days prior to slaughter. This also helps keep the meat fresh looking through the aging process. I suppose you would consider that consumer deception too while you are defending bse testing of cattle under 24 months of age knowing that the earliest detection of bse has come from cattle over 24 months of age.

You must really enjoy revealing your ignorance.

Did you have any more empty trees?


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
SH, " That is why CO2 is used to enhance the color of the meat, in some instances, through this aging process. "

And you continue to try to tie gas to aging. Quit dancing around and insulting the intelligence of everybody here. Gas is used so beef looks fresh when it isn't. It's that flipping simple.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I'm glad everyone can see what a deceiver you are Sandbag.

I never said CO2 was used to enhance the aging process, I said it was used to maintain the fresh color of meat through the aging process.

Another deceptive spin job from the master "illusionist".

You are the fool that didn't know enough to realize that beef was aged in the package.


~SH~
 

Econ101

Well-known member
~SH~ said:
I'm glad everyone can see what a deceiver you are Sandbag.

I never said CO2 was used to enhance the aging process, I said it was used to maintain the fresh color of meat through the aging process.

Another deceptive spin job from the master "illusionist".

You are the fool that didn't know enough to realize that beef was aged in the package.


~SH~

Do you consider that material to the argument SH?
 
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