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Poll: To Fix Economy, Get Out of Iraq

A

Anonymous

Guest
Poll: To Fix Economy, Get Out of Iraq

Friday, February 8, 2008 4:31 PM


WASHINGTON -- The heck with Congress' big stimulus bill. The way to get the country out of recession - and most people think we're in one - is to get the country out of Iraq, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll.


Pulling out of the war ranked first among proposed remedies in the survey, followed by spending more on domestic programs, cutting taxes and, at the bottom end, giving rebates to poor people in hopes they'll spend the economy into recovery.


The $168 billion economic rescue package Congress rushed to approval this week includes rebates of $600 to $1,200 for most taxpayers, the hope being that they will spend the money and help revive ailing businesses. President Bush is expected to sign the measure next week. Poor wage-earners, as well as seniors and veterans who live almost entirely off Social Security and disability benefits, would get $300 checks.


However, just 19 percent of the people surveyed said they planned to go out and spend the money; 45 percent said they'd use it to pay bills. And nearly half said what the government really should do is get out of Iraq.


Forty-eight percent said a pullout would help fix the country's economic problems "a great deal," and an additional 20 percent said it would help at least somewhat. Some 43 percent said increasing government spending on health care, education and housing programs would help a great deal; 36 percent said cutting taxes.


"Let's stop paying for this war," said Hilda Sanchez, 44, of Waterford, Calif. "There are a lot of people who are struggling. We can use the money to pay for medical care and help people who were put out of their homes."


The subject of leaving Iraq shows a sharp partisan divide - 65 percent of Democrats think it would help the economy a lot, but only 18 percent of Republicans think so.

Just 29 percent of people think putting more money in the hands of the poor would help a great deal in fixing the country's economic problems.


According to many economists, the lower people are on the income ladder, the more probable it is that they will spend a rebate and do it quickly - a shot in the arm for the ailing economy.


In the poll, 61 percent said they think the economy is already in a recession.


"Things are bad, but it will get a lot worse," said Jim Sims, 60, of Greer, S.C.


And Nanette Dahlin, 52, of St. Louis Park, Minn., said the economic stimulus package "would only make a recession less damaging."


The economy nearly stalled in the final three months of last year. Some economists, like the majority of poll respondents, say it may actually be shrinking now, given the strains from a persistent housing slump and a painful credit crunch. The worry is that people and businesses will hunker down further and pull back their spending, sending the economy into a tailspin.


Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has gotten more forceful in cutting interest rates to spur people to buy more and to energize businesses. And now Republicans, Democrats and the White House have shown rare cooperation in approving relief.


Rebate checks could start showing up in mailboxes in May. However, Sanchez is typical is saying the money will "go automatically to bills." Thirty-two percent said they would save or invest the rebate. Said Sims: "I'm hoping to hold onto it."


Just 19 percent - like Dahlin - said they would spend it, while 4 percent said they would donate it to charity.


Paying off bills or saving the money won't give the economy a quick boost, though it may well be a wise financial decision for many people who are up to their eyeballs in bills.


"What is good for the economy as a whole - spending a rebate - is not the best idea at an individual household level if you are buried in debt," said Greg McBride, senior financial analyst at Bankrate.com. "Issuing rebate checks to give a boost to consumer spending amounts to a Band-Aid over the much bigger problem of consumer debt burdens," he said.


With Wall Street in turmoil, the top economic worry for poll respondents was seeing their nest eggs shrink. Fifty-nine percent said they were worried "a lot" or "some" about seeing the value of stocks and retirement investments drop. Those approaching retirement fretted the most.


Nearly half - 46 percent - said they were worried about being able to pay their bills. This is especially a concern for people whose household incomes are under $50,000, and for minorities. Twenty-eight percent most feared losing their jobs; minorities and those with a high school education or less were especially concerned.


Also, 48 percent of homeowners polled worried that the value of their homes would drop. The housing bust has led to record-high foreclosures, and weaker home values have made people feel less wealthy.


Who deserves most of the blame for the economy's troubles?


More than half - 56 percent - pointed the finger at mortgage lenders. Forty-four percent said Bush deserves a lot of the blame. After that come Congress, Wall Street, consumers themselves and in last place the Federal Reserve.


The Fed has the public's confidence that it will be able to right the economy.


More than half - 55 percent - said they have a great deal or some confidence in Fed to turn things around. Forty-one percent said that about Congress, only 28 percent about Bush.


In fact, economic problems have contributed to pulling the president's approval ratings to all-time lows. Only 29 percent approve of his handling of the economy, the lowest mark yet in this polling. Bush's overall job-approval rating slid to 30 percent, also a record low.


The AP-Ipsos poll was conducted Monday through Wednesday this week and involved telephone interviews with 1,006 adults. It had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.
http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/Poll:_To_Fix_Economy,_Get/2008/02/08/71291.html
 

MoGal

Well-known member
I think Dobbs nailed it this evening with Jesse Jackson........... we need to rebuild our infrastructure, provide jobs for Americans.

If they feel a need to smash Iraq then hurry up and do it..... cover it from one end to the other and (Lord, please do it quick before my niece gets there) do it in LESS THAN 7 DAYS..... stop paying $1200.00 per day to Blackwater for each one of their employees, stop allowing private no bid contracts and stop making the banking cartel rich. If they'd stop making it a profit to the elite, these wars would stop.......

Let the European Union grow up (like Dobbs says) and bring home the 70,000 troops over there....... let them have their own soldiers guarding their OWN borders and we'll guard ours.

Instead of securing our own borders, they leave them open so they can instill "FEAR" into the american people that we're gonna have another terrorist attack.......... as a ploy to rob us of our freedom and privacy.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I saw that segment too-- and for the first time in my life, I agreed with Jesse Jackson on something - when he said this government, political feel good, look good cash rebate and handout is not going to help the economy much- and that much more could be done if the funds were set toward rebuilding the US infrastructure...

I also thought it was interesting when Dobbs brought up that the Civil Engineers have said that for the cost we've spent/we're spending in Iraq (1 Trillion dollars)- all the infrastructure in the US that has been identified that needs to be repaired or built to keep all the country running smoothly (roads, bridges, sewers, water systems, flood control, electrical, etc. etc.) could be done.... :shock: And that that money would be going back into the US economy- and building the US-- not to foreign countries and foreign contractors like much of the current war money is......
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
I guess it will be way cheaper to rebuild the US AFTER we are attacked again by the terrorists, huh, Oldwhiner. IF there is anything left to rebuild, and IF our heads are still attached.

I don't like this war, either, but if we pull out, like your liberal/libertarian friends will when they are elected, Al Queda will be among the rush of illegal immigrants flooding the US from Mexico. If you don't think there is a strong influence of Muslims in South Texas already, you are fooling yourself. I've seen it with my own eyes in the McAllen/Edinburgh/Harlingen area. Guaranteed: If we don't finish this war over there, we will be forced to finish it here, on US soil.

I've read your whining posts for a year or so. You whine about everything Bush and the other politicians have done, but I don't believe I've ever read a post of yours with an answer or solution to the perceived problem. Give it a try once.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
loomixguy said:
I guess it will be way cheaper to rebuild the US AFTER we are attacked again by the terrorists, huh, Oldwhiner. IF there is anything left to rebuild, and IF our heads are still attached.

I don't like this war, either, but if we pull out, like your liberal/libertarian friends will when they are elected, Al Queda will be among the rush of illegal immigrants flooding the US from Mexico. If you don't think there is a strong influence of Muslims in South Texas already, you are fooling yourself. I've seen it with my own eyes in the McAllen/Edinburgh/Harlingen area. Guaranteed: If we don't finish this war over there, we will be forced to finish it here, on US soil.

I've read your whining posts for a year or so. You whine about everything Bush and the other politicians have done, but I don't believe I've ever read a post of yours with an answer or solution to the perceived problem. Give it a try once.

Loomixguy--we also have huge groups of Muslims right across the border to the north too- that were already under investigation by the CIA,FBI and Mounties when I retired in 1999, because of their questionable activities.....That were/are coming back and forth across the border from Canada- driving semis that could be hauling anything with the amount of inspections we have now at the borders....And how many thousands of terrorist sleepers are already here- having came by way of student visa- or Saudi visa- that just disappeared :???:

I have one damn good solution Bush could do---CLOSE THE BORDER- and find out who the illegals are that are already in the US...If we really have a danger from all these terrorists- Don't you think the smart place to put some troops and shut off their ability of walking across packing baby nukes- would be our own borders :???: And at our ports :???: Right now only 1 of every 100 containers entering the US can be inspected... Put some of that Trillion $ into rebuilding the Border Patrol, Immigration, Coast Guard, and FBI capabilities....

Troops on our borders to prevent foreign invaders is one of his Constitutional duties- that he has not done- that could help many problems- including the war on terror (which to me isn't the same as the Bush/Cheny Iraqui Oil War), the war on Drugs (that is killing as many or more than any terrorist and that we have been fighting for 50 years), and bring back some respect for the laws of this country that the Clinton/Bush era has been teaching a generation that you don't have to obey/follow if you have money, are politically connected, or have exalted yourself to the position of King....

Instead GW has done the opposite- and now given Mexican trucking companies free run of the country-with God only knows who driving or what load carrying...... :roll: :(

No wonder so many have lost faith in Bush's War- and no longer believe him that we are fighting it to keep them from getting here- when he has done NOTHING to build our domestic resources and safeguards to prevent these invasions/attacks....Those $1200 a day Blackwater type security folks could do more for US citizen safety if they were at the Borders and Ports- instead of guarding the state department and Halliburton executives around Baghdad...

And that money would be going back to improve the US economy, society, and infrastructure....This is one place where Ron Paul shows his true conservative ties- and has a better plan than any of the neocons or liberals running.....
Actually Constitutionally- the President (GW) has more authority/duty to put troops on the border- and protect our borders from foreign invaders--than he does to send troops and spend the taxpayers childrens/grandchildrens not yet earned dollars to fight in an undeclared war!!!!

Taxpayers shouldn't have to be paying a Trillion $ so that a few major US oil companies can pump oil out of that Iraqui ground and sell it back to the US taxpayer at $100+ a barrel :shock: :( :mad:
Its time Iraq started picking up the check......
 

fff

Well-known member
The American people know where our money is going. $2 billion a week in Iraq that could be spent putting out-of-work Americans back to work fixing the infastructure of this country, retraining them for new jobs, rebuilding our military, securing our borders. We're not stupid. Iraq is a war of choice. Yet President Bush is negotiating with the Iraq "government" to commit troops to that country for years after he leaves office. Republican presidential candidates continue to support his failed policies. Iraq will be his legacy. Has he damaged the Republican party beyond redemption?
 

katrina

Well-known member
fff said:
The American people know where our money is going. $2 billion a week in Iraq that could be spent putting out-of-work Americans back to work fixing the infastructure of this country, retraining them for new jobs, rebuilding our military, securing our borders. We're not stupid. Iraq is a war of choice. Yet President Bush is negotiating with the Iraq "government" to commit troops to that country for years after he leaves office. Republican presidential candidates continue to support his failed policies. Iraq will be his legacy. Has he damaged the Republican party beyond redemption?

Out of work Americans don't want to work... They expect the hard working red, white and blue Americans to support them so they can do nothing but recieve welfare. There are lots of jobs if you really want to work. Yeah it may not be what you want to do the rest of your life, buts it's a start.......
Hillery is history and Obama will be defeated by McCain. The republican party will have the white house again....... Done deal stick a fork in the democrats as they are history. We see what they are doing now in congress. Not a darn thing...........
 

fff

Well-known member
katrina said:
fff said:
The American people know where our money is going. $2 billion a week in Iraq that could be spent putting out-of-work Americans back to work fixing the infastructure of this country, retraining them for new jobs, rebuilding our military, securing our borders. We're not stupid. Iraq is a war of choice. Yet President Bush is negotiating with the Iraq "government" to commit troops to that country for years after he leaves office. Republican presidential candidates continue to support his failed policies. Iraq will be his legacy. Has he damaged the Republican party beyond redemption?

Out of work Americans don't want to work... They expect the hard working red, white and blue Americans to support them so they can do nothing but recieve welfare. There are lots of jobs if you really want to work. Yeah it may not be what you want to do the rest of your life, buts it's a start.......
Hillery is history and Obama will be defeated by McCain. The republican party will have the white house again....... Done deal stick a fork in the democrats as they are history. We see what they are doing now in congress. Not a darn thing...........

Yeah, those 12,000 Countrywide employees who were layed off last fall were just a bunch of slugs, setting around and waiting for someone to take care of them. 20% of Countrywide = 20% of the entire mortgage industry. And that's a lot of jobs. But, hey, let's continue to send that money to Iraq instead. Gotta protect Bush's Legacy, you know. :roll:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702735.html

Big pharm and biotech layoffs: http://www.fiercebiotech.com/special-reports/top-5-layoffs-2007

The auto industry layoffs: http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/3895023-1.html

There are similar articles in the construction field, airlines, coal industries. This is a big, wide, downturn. When people lose their jobs, they generally lose their health insurance. They still get sick, but you and I pay for their healthcare. Or they die. Shame on them for being layed off. :roll:
 

katrina

Well-known member
fff said:
katrina said:
fff said:
The American people know where our money is going. $2 billion a week in Iraq that could be spent putting out-of-work Americans back to work fixing the infastructure of this country, retraining them for new jobs, rebuilding our military, securing our borders. We're not stupid. Iraq is a war of choice. Yet President Bush is negotiating with the Iraq "government" to commit troops to that country for years after he leaves office. Republican presidential candidates continue to support his failed policies. Iraq will be his legacy. Has he damaged the Republican party beyond redemption?

Out of work Americans don't want to work... They expect the hard working red, white and blue Americans to support them so they can do nothing but recieve welfare. There are lots of jobs if you really want to work. Yeah it may not be what you want to do the rest of your life, buts it's a start.......
Hillery is history and Obama will be defeated by McCain. The republican party will have the white house again....... Done deal stick a fork in the democrats as they are history. We see what they are doing now in congress. Not a darn thing...........

Yeah, those 12,000 Countrywide employees who were layed off last fall were just a bunch of slugs, setting around and waiting for someone to take care of them. 20% of Countrywide = 20% of the entire mortgage industry. And that's a lot of jobs. But, hey, let's continue to send that money to Iraq instead. Gotta protect Bush's Legacy, you know. :roll:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702735.html

Big pharm and biotech layoffs: http://www.fiercebiotech.com/special-reports/top-5-layoffs-2007

The auto industry layoffs: http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/3895023-1.html

There are similar articles in the construction field, airlines, coal industries. This is a big, wide, downturn. When people lose their jobs, they generally lose their health insurance. They still get sick, but you and I pay for their healthcare. Or they die. Shame on them for being layed off. :roll:

Sometimes you have to pick yourself up dust yourself off and start again. Been there done that with no help from the goverment.... Yes I too know all about heathcare.....Done that too....... Sure nothing is perfect, but it's not the goverments fault. It's the communities, churches, neighbors responsibility to help out... Smaller goverment is better.
 

fff

Well-known member
katrina said:
fff said:
katrina said:
Out of work Americans don't want to work... They expect the hard working red, white and blue Americans to support them so they can do nothing but recieve welfare. There are lots of jobs if you really want to work. Yeah it may not be what you want to do the rest of your life, buts it's a start.......
Hillery is history and Obama will be defeated by McCain. The republican party will have the white house again....... Done deal stick a fork in the democrats as they are history. We see what they are doing now in congress. Not a darn thing...........

Yeah, those 12,000 Countrywide employees who were layed off last fall were just a bunch of slugs, setting around and waiting for someone to take care of them. 20% of Countrywide = 20% of the entire mortgage industry. And that's a lot of jobs. But, hey, let's continue to send that money to Iraq instead. Gotta protect Bush's Legacy, you know. :roll:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702735.html

Big pharm and biotech layoffs: http://www.fiercebiotech.com/special-reports/top-5-layoffs-2007

The auto industry layoffs: http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/3895023-1.html

There are similar articles in the construction field, airlines, coal industries. This is a big, wide, downturn. When people lose their jobs, they generally lose their health insurance. They still get sick, but you and I pay for their healthcare. Or they die. Shame on them for being layed off. :roll:

Sometimes you have to pick yourself up dust yourself off and start again. Been there done that with no help from the goverment.... Yes I too know all about heathcare.....Done that too....... Sure nothing is perfect, but it's not the goverments fault. It's the communities, churches, neighbors responsibility to help out... Smaller goverment is better.

But that's not what you said. You said "out of work Americans don't want to work." That's insulting to every one of these thousands who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own. :mad: Instead of spending over $2 billion a week covering Bush's behind in Iraq, we could be increasing the length of unemployment benefits, increasing training programs, providing healthcare for them while they're out of work. That money would stay in our economy instead of sinking into the black hole of Iraq.

I don't think a "smaller" government is necessarily better. Now a government that works is a good thing. The Bush Administration has dramatically grown the size of our government, and it still doesn't work.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Katrina
Sometimes you have to pick yourself up dust yourself off and start again. Been there done that with no help from the goverment.... Yes I too know all about heathcare.....Done that too....... Sure nothing is perfect, but it's not the goverments fault. It's the communities, churches, neighbors responsibility to help out... Smaller goverment is better.

Katrina- in yours or my area, where we have more jackrabbits and cows than people that works....But we are a small minority anymore...In this new transit globalist urban world- lots of people have no idea who there neighbors are.....They come- they go...Everyones on the move- very little or no family connections or involvement (maybe fly to Grandmas on Christmas vacation)...
And how many benefit auctions or benefit dances can you attend :???: ...Its getting so we have 1 or 2 every week in our little county of 8,000 people...Even with this $20 wheat- Katrina- you and I can't afford to pay the health/food/housing costs of these people by ourselves...The reason there has to be some way to make all pay- according to ability...And that ends up being government....

And now with these 100,000's of laid off workers we will have lots more folks in transit- many having to move, in order to find a new job in their profession- or to try and go in to another trade or profession...
 

katrina

Well-known member
fff said:
katrina said:
fff said:
Yeah, those 12,000 Countrywide employees who were layed off last fall were just a bunch of slugs, setting around and waiting for someone to take care of them. 20% of Countrywide = 20% of the entire mortgage industry. And that's a lot of jobs. But, hey, let's continue to send that money to Iraq instead. Gotta protect Bush's Legacy, you know. :roll:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702735.html

Big pharm and biotech layoffs: http://www.fiercebiotech.com/special-reports/top-5-layoffs-2007

The auto industry layoffs: http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/3895023-1.html

There are similar articles in the construction field, airlines, coal industries. This is a big, wide, downturn. When people lose their jobs, they generally lose their health insurance. They still get sick, but you and I pay for their healthcare. Or they die. Shame on them for being layed off. :roll:

Sometimes you have to pick yourself up dust yourself off and start again. Been there done that with no help from the goverment.... Yes I too know all about heathcare.....Done that too....... Sure nothing is perfect, but it's not the goverments fault. It's the communities, churches, neighbors responsibility to help out... Smaller goverment is better.

But that's not what you said. You said "out of work Americans don't want to work." That's insulting to every one of these thousands who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own. :mad: Instead of spending over $2 billion a week covering Bush's behind in Iraq, we could be increasing the length of unemployment benefits, increasing training programs, providing healthcare for them while they're out of work. That money would stay in our economy instead of sinking into the black hole of Iraq.

I don't think a "smaller" government is necessarily better. Now a government that works is a good thing. The Bush Administration has dramatically grown the size of our government, and it still doesn't work.

Most of the Americans that don't have a job don't want to work and I will stand by that......... Those that have lost their job for no reason will find other jobs if they want too..... It's kinda like me loosing a calf and blaming it on you and expecting you to pay for the calf...... No we don't do that.
It's not the goverments job to provide training or welfare for those who lost their jobs....... It's the ones who lost their job to do that........ Maybe they will have to make a few sacrifices.... Less cell phones ect...
I agree goverment has grown and it don't work no matter who's in the white house....
A billion a week for what? I'm sure most of it is well spent for our safety in the long run....... A socialist goverment will not work...... Someone has to pay and we know who that will be.........
 

katrina

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Katrina
Sometimes you have to pick yourself up dust yourself off and start again. Been there done that with no help from the goverment.... Yes I too know all about heathcare.....Done that too....... Sure nothing is perfect, but it's not the goverments fault. It's the communities, churches, neighbors responsibility to help out... Smaller goverment is better.

Katrina- in yours or my area, where we have more jackrabbits and cows than people that works....But we are a small minority anymore...In this new transit globalist urban world- lots of people have no idea who there neighbors are.....They come- they go...Everyones on the move- very little or no family connections or involvement (maybe fly to Grandmas on Christmas vacation)...
And how many benefit auctions or benefit dances can you attend :???: ...Its getting so we have 1 or 2 every week in our little county of 8,000 people...Even with this $20 wheat- Katrina- you and I can't afford to pay the health/food/housing costs of these people by ourselves...The reason there has to be some way to make all pay- according to ability...And that ends up being government....

And now with these 100,000's of laid off workers we will have lots more folks in transit- many having to move, in order to find a new job in their profession- or to try and go in to another trade or profession...

Throwing money isn't always the answer...... Lots of open ranch jobs available around here. And just maybe they will have to sell their big house and move down to one they can afford. And do without all the cool high tech toys and gadgets..... Why are those with jobs not saving for a rainy day? Yeah wheat is high.... Do you not think for one minute we are putting some back for those unexspectant emergancies...... Hellooooo.......
I was without a job for awhile and I hauled trash for the older folks who couldn't or wanted someone else too and waited tables at night....... I'm sorry, but people have to be responsible for themselves or at least willing to make some changes to better themselves later on down the road....
I know more about my neighbor and what I can do to help them than any goverment program... All it takes is a little effort.......
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
katrina said:
Oldtimer said:
Katrina
Sometimes you have to pick yourself up dust yourself off and start again. Been there done that with no help from the goverment.... Yes I too know all about heathcare.....Done that too....... Sure nothing is perfect, but it's not the goverments fault. It's the communities, churches, neighbors responsibility to help out... Smaller goverment is better.

Katrina- in yours or my area, where we have more jackrabbits and cows than people that works....But we are a small minority anymore...In this new transit globalist urban world- lots of people have no idea who there neighbors are.....They come- they go...Everyones on the move- very little or no family connections or involvement (maybe fly to Grandmas on Christmas vacation)...
And how many benefit auctions or benefit dances can you attend :???: ...Its getting so we have 1 or 2 every week in our little county of 8,000 people...Even with this $20 wheat- Katrina- you and I can't afford to pay the health/food/housing costs of these people by ourselves...The reason there has to be some way to make all pay- according to ability...And that ends up being government....

And now with these 100,000's of laid off workers we will have lots more folks in transit- many having to move, in order to find a new job in their profession- or to try and go in to another trade or profession...

Throwing money isn't always the answer...... Lots of open ranch jobs available around here. And just maybe they will have to sell their big house and move down to one they can afford. And do without all the cool high tech toys and gadgets..... Why are those with jobs not saving for a rainy day? Yeah wheat is high.... Do you not think for one minute we are putting some back for those unexspectant emergancies...... Hellooooo.......
I was without a job for awhile and I hauled trash for the older folks who couldn't or wanted someone else too and waited tables at night....... I'm sorry, but people have to be responsible for themselves or at least willing to make some changes to better themselves later on down the road....
I know more about my neighbor and what I can do to help them than any goverment program... All it takes is a little effort.......

So I take it you don't believe that GW's plan to throw out $Billions of dollars in tax money (that the country doesn't have) is going to be what saves us- eh :???:

You are right about what folks should do-- but many don't...What do you propose we do with them? Paupers Prisons or government work farms to work off their debts? Let them and their kids starve? Let the kids die from curable diseases?

I think most ranch's would be better off without any help- than what they would get out of all those laid off 20th Century, mortgage broker, and Wallstreet folks :wink:
 

fff

Well-known member
katrina said:
fff said:
katrina said:
Sometimes you have to pick yourself up dust yourself off and start again. Been there done that with no help from the goverment.... Yes I too know all about heathcare.....Done that too....... Sure nothing is perfect, but it's not the goverments fault. It's the communities, churches, neighbors responsibility to help out... Smaller goverment is better.

But that's not what you said. You said "out of work Americans don't want to work." That's insulting to every one of these thousands who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own. :mad: Instead of spending over $2 billion a week covering Bush's behind in Iraq, we could be increasing the length of unemployment benefits, increasing training programs, providing healthcare for them while they're out of work. That money would stay in our economy instead of sinking into the black hole of Iraq.

I don't think a "smaller" government is necessarily better. Now a government that works is a good thing. The Bush Administration has dramatically grown the size of our government, and it still doesn't work.

Most of the Americans that don't have a job don't want to work and I will stand by that......... Those that have lost their job for no reason will find other jobs if they want too..... It's kinda like me loosing a calf and blaming it on you and expecting you to pay for the calf...... No we don't do that.

No, it's not like you losing a calf. Yes, many of them will find other jobs. But the Chemist who used to make big buck working for a pharm company and is now working at the convience store won't be able to make his house payment, car payments, send his kids to college on those wages. So he loses his house, it goes on the market, fewer houses need to be built, construction companies cut jobs, buy fewer materials, need fewer truck drivers.....Do you see where this is going?

It's not the goverments job to provide training or welfare for those who lost their jobs....... It's the ones who lost their job to do that........ Maybe they will have to make a few sacrifices.... Less cell phones ect...

I disagree. It's the government's job to take care of it's citizens whether protecting them from "radical muslim extremists" or from starving to death. Training people for new jobs puts them back to work, off the welfare roles, they can buy their own insurance, pay property taxes, put those construction workers back to work. You can get some really cheap cell phones these days. Only pay for the time you talk and in many places they're cheaper than a land line. We have two cell phones and numbers on our cell package and they're cheaper than the one land line. I'm thinking about giving that one up. So just because you see someone talking on a cell phone, don't think they're wasting money. They may be saving money.

I agree goverment has grown and it don't work no matter who's in the white house....

Oh, I disagree. It does matter greatly who's in the White House. McCain supports the failed policies of George W. Bush. We don't need four more years of that.

A billion a week for what? I'm sure most of it is well spent for our safety in the long run....... A socialist goverment will not work...... Someone has to pay and we know who that will be.........

I don't know where you're coming up with "A billion"? We're spending $2.2 billion a week in Iraq. Or that was the last figure I saw. It's probably gone up since then. Where's it going? Who the H*** knows. Not our government. We do know that the US Army is paying Iraqis not to fight us. There are a lot of them willing to take our money. Blackwater is very expensive. You know that our diplomats don't think our military is capable of defending them so they get Blackwater guards? We've spent $144 million (and growing) on a new embassy that isn't habitable at this time. That money went to a Kuwait company who used imported labor from the Phillippines. We're buying a lot of concrete barriers to put around Iraqi neighborhoods in Baghdad to keep out bombers, so some cement contractor is doing well. We're still subsdizing gasoline prices in Iraq as far as I know. Last figure I saw was 10 cents a gallon there. And we provide some medical care for Iraqis. We're rebuilding some bridges and roads. The airport is always being worked on. Yeah, I'm sure all that makes us safer. :roll: And lets not forget that it costs a whole lot more today to recruit, train, equip and retain a soldier or fly a jet or fuel up a humV or buy ammunition, clothes, blankets, food for the troops.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2212478,00.html
 

katrina

Well-known member
I was taking your number I must of read wrong. I guess will just have to agree to disagree and try and meet in the middle somewhere......
Gotta run as I head to Omaha for wrestling and need to get things in order for the guys.........
See ya........
 

Hanta Yo

Well-known member
Loomixguy wrote:

I guess it will be way cheaper to rebuild the US AFTER we are attacked again by the terrorists, huh, Oldwhiner. IF there is anything left to rebuild, and IF our heads are still attached.

if we pull out, like your liberal/libertarian friends will when they are elected, Al Queda will be among the rush of illegal immigrants flooding the US from Mexico. If you don't think there is a strong influence of Muslims in South Texas already, you are fooling yourself. I've seen it with my own eyes in the McAllen/Edinburgh/Harlingen area. Guaranteed: If we don't finish this war over there, we will be forced to finish it here, on US soil.

I agree with you, loomixguy. Bring our troops home and we'll be fighting this war on our own soil.

Get the fences built around our borders and take care of our money drain :mad:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
No wonder GW says we have nothing to worry about- and we can afford to fight a 100 year war with no tax raises...Our "friends" from China, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Venezuela and now Russia are coming to bail us out...And we all know- being the "good friends" they are they will expect nothing in return... :shock: :roll: :wink: :(

GW- Tell me again who's winning this war :???:

News from MoneyNews.com

Russian Cash Pouring Into U.S.

Russia has cleared the way for $32 billion of its sovereign wealth fund money to be invested in Western companies, joining the lineup of Arab and Asian sovereign wealth funds investing here.

By comparison, that’s as big as the largest U.S. hedge funds, and it’s rapidly escalating.

Russia created the $32 billion fund by splitting off money from its $157 billion oil stabilization fund, used to protect itself against swings in oil prices.

Meanwhile, Russian windfall oil profits could exceed $200 billion this year.

Europeans and Americans fret that such government-directed wealth could be used to seize their strategic assets and pursue secret political agendas.

Sovereign funds now control an estimated $2.5 trillion, which may grow to $12 trillion by 2015, almost 10 percent of the world’s financial assets.

After all, they remember that Russia’s natural-gas monopoly, Gazprom, cut supplies to Ukraine two years ago when that country became friendly to Western nations.

The Russians claimed they just waited Ukraine to pay market rates. Again denying any political motivations, Gazprom recently threatened to again cut supplies over a dispute over a $1.5 billion debt.

The Russians, however, say "Don’t worry, be happy.” They’re interested in increasing their yield — just like Western investors. Shoring up their pension system is a major goal of their new fund.

Americans should be glad, they say, as the new Russian fund might help ease the growing U.S. credit crunch.

Russia hopes to play an active role in stabilizing global markets rocked by the U.S. subprime mortgage crisis, Russian Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin said at the recent World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

"They play a very positive role on the global market. Any concern about the political underlining of these funds is exaggerated," Kudrin said.

So far, the Russian fund can invest in dollar, euro and British pound assets. Kudrin told a Japanese newspaper, the Nikkei business daily, that the sovereign fund is also considering Japanese stocks.

Russia, Kudrin pointed out, accepted plenty of foreign capital in the 1990s but never tried to restrict investments.

"It’s all about ‘if’ and ‘suppose,’” said Bader Al-Saad, managing director of the Kuwait Investment Authority, at a forum panel. "It’s as though sovereign wealth funds are guilty before proven innocent.”

Nevertheless, the U.S. and several European countries, also worried about Arab and Chinese sovereign funds, are calling for greater transparency and international rules for the funds.

No chance, the Russians say. Indeed, the Russians and managers of other sovereign funds are annoyed by the idea.

The Kuwait fund, the one that bailed out Citigroup and Merrill Lynch after their heavy subprime losses, hasn’t made a political decision in its 55-year history, Al-Saad pointed out.

But the Russian fund — and for that matter, the $200 billion China Investment Corp. — has no such record.

Former U.S. Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers, another conference panelist, raised concerns about sovereign funds’ potential lack of corporate governance, conflicting motives, and political influence.

A foreign fund, for instance, could take a large stake in an airline and force it to make uneconomical flights to the fund’s home country.


Westerners are urging the funds to follow the example of Norway’s $380 billion government pension fund. It reveals detailed information about its holdings and uses asset management firms to rule out political involvements.

Don’t get your hopes up, said Kristin Halvorsen, Norway’s finance minister.

The fund’s transparency comes from Norwegian tradition — one not necessarily shared by Russians, Chinese, or even Middle Easterners.

"They don't like us, but they want our money," she said, referring to the funds in general.
 
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