Pondering genetic programs, EPD's and how to balance them

[Anonymous]

Heh, heh. A bit short-sighted, there. There are thousands of high-marbling cattle out there that have not been single-trait selected for marbling nor are they Wagyu, nor do they look like a Holstein. A guy can practice balanced-trait selection and get it done. I can show you tremendous carcass data on cattle that haven't even been selected for carcass traits as a primary concern.

Not fighin' ya. Just saying.

I just talked to a local fella the other day that is breeding all his heifers to Wagyu bulls...Leasing the bulls from an outfit that guarantees calving ease with the Wagyu bulls - then picks the bulls back up- and next fall will pay him 40% above the going price for his calves....

He said with the price of heifer bulls this year it was worth a try...

he better hope that its a mild winter when he's calving them, my experince with Waygu is the calves like to die....for no reason at all.....

I'll tell him that next time I see him- but he doesn't have too much weather worries as he calves out on grass in May and June-- the reason he wants a lot of calving ease......

 

[PATB]

If you are looking for high marbleing use waygu.

Heh, heh. A bit short-sighted, there. There are thousands of high-marbling cattle out there that have not been single-trait selected for marbling nor are they Wagyu, nor do they look like a Holstein. A guy can practice balanced-trait selection and get it done. I can show you tremendous carcass data on cattle that haven't even been selected for carcass traits as a primary concern.

Not fighin' ya. Just saying.

I won't argue with you about being short sighted since I need glasses to read :twisted: To do it your way takes time and thought to make it work.

 

[Howdy1]

For what it's worth I have had cattle buyers tell me not to worry so much about marbling epd with angus cattle. They said they will grade well anyway without chasing it. He said when buying bulls look for ribeye area and whatever you want for growth. He said you can have all the genetic potential for marbling but if they aren't handled right or fed right it is all down the tubes. He said most angus cattle that don't grade is because they were fed wrong/implant strategy too agressive.

They also said a commercial man selling calves off the cow should be more concerned with getting that cow bred as that is what pays the bills. A cow with all the best genetics in the world and doesn't breed is just the same as all the other open cull cows.

As for the Ai it is just an personal decision. I think most don't Ai as it is just easier to turn out the bulls and get on with other things. Plus it is a lot of time and work to only get a certain % of them bred anyway.

I have heard from guys around me that have done it in the past, they say they were surprised how fast they could improve their cowherd with AI. I think it has lots of merit for the commercial man just hard to implement it.

 

[Anonymous]

For what it's worth I have had cattle buyers tell me not to worry so much about marbling epd with angus cattle. They said they will grade well anyway without chasing it. He said when buying bulls look for ribeye area and whatever you want for growth. He said you can have all the genetic potential for marbling but if they aren't handled right or fed right it is all down the tubes. He said most angus cattle that don't grade is because they were fed wrong/implant strategy too agressive.

They also said a commercial man selling calves off the cow should be more concerned with getting that cow bred as that is what pays the bills. A cow with all the best genetics in the world and doesn't breed is just the same as all the other open cull cows.
As for the Ai it is just an personal decision. I think most don't Ai as it is just easier to turn out the bulls and get on with other things. Plus it is a lot of time and work to only get a certain % of them bred anyway.

I have heard from guys around me that have done it in the past, they say they were surprised how fast they could improve their cowherd with AI. I think it has lots of merit for the commercial man just hard to implement it.

AMEN!

I stole a quote from Larry Leonardt on what his goals in breeding were:

development of parent stock that can regularly produce beef animals which at the lowest possible expenditure of labor and cost give the highest possible and longest lasting returns to the commercial industry.

 

[Justin]

They also said a commercial man selling calves off the cow should be more concerned with getting that cow bred as that is what pays the bills. A cow with all the best genetics in the world and doesn't breed is just the same as all the other open cull cows.

:agree:

 

[gcreekrch]

They also said a commercial man selling calves off the cow should be more concerned with getting that cow bred as that is what pays the bills. A cow with all the best genetics in the world and doesn't breed is just the same as all the other open cull cows.

:agree:

Other than the chance that she may be a well marbled cull. :wink: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

A similar subject is being discussed on another site...I thought this was a fairly good description of a game plan so I borrowed it:

Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify.
Henry David Thoreau

The KISS plan works well too.. A lot of time if you have the basics covered all the rest will take care of itself...

 

[Justin]

They also said a commercial man selling calves off the cow should be more concerned with getting that cow bred as that is what pays the bills. A cow with all the best genetics in the world and doesn't breed is just the same as all the other open cull cows.

:agree:

Other than the chance that she may be a well marbled cull. :wink: :lol:

point taken :wink:

 

[RSL]

I totally agree with RSL about going with a terminal cross and not keeping heifers. That way you can "chase" the carcass, marbling, REA numbers you need for your feeder calves.

So the proposal is to either buy replacements or run a second set of cows for my replacement heifers. Don't like either of those options, but my it is my only option. I want to proliferate my seedstock using data collected on their contemporaries going to slaughter.

I think there are other options. I know some guys that run maternal AN bulls for the first couple of weeks and then kick out terminal type bulls. Might need to DNA the replacement heifers if you aren't using something like CH, but it ensures the daughters you keep are always out of early breeding cows. Also means your later calves might be closer in size to your early calves at marketing time, and saves splitting pastures.

Breeding straight AN or straight maternal can work, just harder to balance all the progress into one package.

 

[WyomingRancher]

I totally agree with RSL about going with a terminal cross and not keeping heifers. That way you can "chase" the carcass, marbling, REA numbers you need for your feeder calves.

So the proposal is to either buy replacements or run a second set of cows for my replacement heifers. Don't like either of those options, but my it is my only option. I want to proliferate my seedstock using data collected on their contemporaries going to slaughter.

I think there are other options. I know some guys that run maternal AN bulls for the first couple of weeks and then kick out terminal type bulls. Might need to DNA the replacement heifers if you aren't using something like CH, but it ensures the daughters you keep are always out of early breeding cows. Also means your later calves might be closer in size to your early calves at marketing time, and saves splitting pastures.

Breeding straight AN or straight maternal can work, just harder to balance all the progress into one package.

That's a good idea, or you could just throw some Gelbvieh bulls out there, and get the best of both worlds while getting more hybrid vigor :wink: .