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Presidents Religion-POLL

Would a presidential candidate's religion affect your vote?

  • yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • no

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

littlejoe

Well-known member
Mike said:
Whitewing said:
aplusmnt said:
According to the Bible a Christian will manifest himself based on his fruits. I don't see a lot of Christian qualities in Obama! I do see Muslim qualities in him seeing how Muslims believe according to their Koran that it is ok to lie to Christians as long as it serves the Muslim cause!

Aplus!!!! Good to see you man. OT still has a crush on you!

Yes he does. Something about anus widening? Keep your eye on him. :lol:

the above highest and best use for mikey's haid. (reservations required)
 

Larrry

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Larrry said:
Larrry said:
Now thats quite the dodge to whether obama is. Whether I am or not isn't the question in this debate, obama is


You can't prove to me you are a Christian can you? So how do you expect Obama or any President of the United States or candidate to prove they are
Christians :???:

Both Bush and Romney believe we all pray to the same God the same as I do- but because of that some rightwingernuts chastise me and think I can't be a Christian... But I'm as much a Christian as any person on this site..

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney made reference to a universal god during Wednesday night’s presidential debate via a single statement not particularly related to the debate issues at hand.

“We’re a nation that believes that we’re all children of the same God,” Romney said.

This is one statement that GW made that I agree 110% with.....

President George Bush has repeated his belief all religions, “whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God” – an assertion that caused outrage among evangelical leaders when he said it in November 2003.
------------------------------


“Well, first of all, I believe in an Almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God. That’s what I believe. I believe that Islam is a great religion that preaches peace. And I believe people who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives aren’t religious people, whether they be a Christian who does that – we had a person blow up our – blow up a federal building in Oklahoma City who professed to be a Christian, but that’s not a Christian act to kill innocent people.

“And I just simply don’t subscribe to the idea that murdering innocent men, women and children – particularly Muslim men, women and children in the Middle East – is an act of somebody who is a religious person.

Can't you get it through your head, its not about whether I can prove I'm a Christian or not. It's about proving whether obama is or not. The only evidence you offered that he was is thaty obama said so...and we all know what his word is worth.

You lost ot
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
Timothy McVeigh never said/testified that he was a Christian. Just the opposite. He claimed to be agnostic/atheist and said that "Science is my religion".

The Tim McVeigh and the Christian Identity Connection

Willie Martin is a reputed leader of a Neo-Nazi cult known as Christian Identity, which is very popular in the Militia Movement and the extreme right. They claim the American government is under the control of ZOG, MAGOG, GOG, FROG, and who knows what else. (ZOG is Zionist Occupied Government) Willie sent out a change of address not to long ago saying he was moving from Oklahoma to Texas. Oklahoma is one of the most racist states in America producing people such as David Duke. This is what Willie had to say about Oklahoma City:

From: Willie Martin [email protected]
Subject: Oklahoma City
Date: Sunday, February 04, 2001 12:06 PM


If you ever pass through Oklahoma City or spend a day or two there, you will find that this city has completely gone nigger crazy. They have no conception of God's word, they have Jews preaching in the pulpits and hundreds of them go listen to this lying, deceiving, false teacher. It makes one sick to see our White Brothers and Sisters in such a condition.
This Sunday they had a nigger preacher on KTOK 1000 at 9:30 a.m. and some would say that they sure do worship feverently. Well the priests of Baal in Elijah's day worshiped fervently also, but they were killed in the end.

Posted on http://www.topica.com/



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim McVeigh sees himself as martyr protesting an evil government and calls the 168 people he murdered when he blew up the Murrah Federal Building "collateral damage." To most Americans he is a coward devoid of emotion or reason. What the press fails to report is he is a product of Christian Identity and their holy war against ZOG.

Tim was certainly exposed to their ideas, which are common among the militias he associated with. His statements and attitude are Christian Identity right down the line. I don't think he acted alone either, he is covering someone's ass. His/their real goal was to trigger a race war but McVeigh was so stupid he got caught. I'm sure Willie Martin never met Tim McVeigh or the other coward who murdered the kids at a Texas Baptist church. What he does do is spread the hate, lies, and paranoia that for these innocent people got them "killed in the end."
---------------------------

Dogma of Christian Identity

For nearly 50 years, the venomous racist theology of Identity has penetrated through the ranks of Klansmen, neo-Nazis, the Posse Comitatus and racist Skinheads. Now it reaches beyond traditional white supremacists to an expanding network of anti-government extremists.

Today, the fanatical anti-Semitic sect fuels the so-called Patriot Movement with paranoid theories of government conspiracies and Biblical justifications for violence.

Identity members subscribe to the "Israel Message." They believe that white people are the true Israelites and that Jews and people of color are subhuman "children of Satan, " who, along with the government, are to be destroyed in an apocalyptic battle.



There is no doubt that Timothy McVeigh was deeply influenced by the Christian Identity movement. Christian Identity is a profoundly racist and theocratic form of faith that developed in the late 1970s and spread like wildfire through rural communities throughout the U.S. in the 1980s.



The chief guidebook for Christian Identity eschatology is "The Turner Diaries" written by William Pierce under the pseudonym Andrew MacDonald. The book is a fictional account of the "day of judgment" for which Identity adherents are preparing. Here's a summary of the book by Joel Dyer, author of "Harvest of Rage: Why Oklahoma City is Only the Beginning" (1997) – by far the best explanation in print for what led to the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City:



In his book "The Turner Diaries," Pierce describes a race war that ends with the government being overthrown. Pierce's book is more than fiction. The most radical elements of the movement view it as a vision or blueprint for action. In the book, the Aryan forces used armored car robberies to finance their revolution. In real life, the radical white supremacist group called "the Order" used Pierce's book as a guide to their armored car robberies in the Northwest. In the book, the revolutionaries blow up a federal building as part of their antigovernment war. In real life, the bombing of Oklahoma City's Alfred P. Murrah Building was almost a carbon copy of the incident in Pierce's book. As I mentioned earlier, Timothy McVeigh had photocopies of a portion of "The Turner Diaries" with him when he was arrested. McVeigh also sold copies of the book at gun shows around the country.
- See more at: http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=15532#sthash.1dvTpIJi.dpuf

I will disagree with you as McVeigh was tied in with all the racist hate groups that hide behind the cloak of being Christians- and spout Bible verse's they twist around to try and rationalize their evil deeds...
They use their version of Christianity and Christian symbols (the cross) to recruit followers into their groups...

These authors have it pegged to about what I have seen with my dealings with these hate groups that preach hate, fear, and anarchy...

McVeigh's daily Bible which he even peddled was "The Turner Diaries" which is the handbook for the Christian Identity rightwingernuts...
 

Mike

Well-known member
I stand by my statement:
Timothy McVeigh never said/testified that he was a Christian. Just the opposite. He claimed to be agnostic/atheist and said that "Science is my religion".

Nothing you posted proves anything about McVeigh. It's all "he said, she said" BULLCHIT.

Sorry, you lose again. :roll: When will you learn?
In the 2001 book American Terrorist, McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion
 

littlejoe

Well-known member
Larrry said:
Oldtimer said:
Larrry said:
ot so you claim obama is a christian

Your only evidence is "he said he was"

Gotcha

We all know how reliable his word is

ot=fail

Larrry - Are you a Christian? How can you prove it?

Now thats quite the dodge to whether obama is. Whether I am or not isn't the question in this debate, obama is

LOL! Well, littlelar---bigO's in the can. While we wait, how's about you answer the question? And do prove it, 'eh?
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
OldBlowHard said:
These authors have it pegged to about what I have seen with my dealings with these hate groups that preach hate, fear, and anarchy...

Exactly what dealings have you had with these hate groups?

As prone as you are to brag about shyte that never happened or that you never did, I suspect the sum total of your dealings with these hate groups is nothing more than reading about them and imagining John Wayne-like OT takin' 'em all down singlehanded.
 

loomixguy

Well-known member
I have a relative that suffers from a similar disease as OT. She vividly remembers things and encounters that never happened. She was even right there in the middle of things that happened before she was born! Plus, she's been driving cars on the highway since she was four! Just ask her! :roll:

She's an RN. Maybe there's something in the proximity of the medical field that causes this?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
OldBlowHard said:
These authors have it pegged to about what I have seen with my dealings with these hate groups that preach hate, fear, and anarchy...

Exactly what dealings have you had with these hate groups?

As prone as you are to brag about shyte that never happened or that you never did, I suspect the sum total of your dealings with these hate groups is nothing more than reading about them and imagining John Wayne-like OT takin' 'em all down singlehanded.

He actually said in these pages that he was once bigoted, racist, and indifferent towards others and he did/does have guilt feelings about it.

Maybe he actually belonged/participated with one of these groups?

But then we all know how wishy-washy the fat sumbeech is and was just lying again. :roll: :roll: I wouldn't trust him if he said the sun was going to rise in the morning. :shock:
 

James T

Well-known member
From http://www.ethicsdaily.com/an-accurate-look-at-timothy-mcveighs-beliefs-cms-15532

In addition to denying Christian extremism, Farah and his blogging buddies are distorting the record regarding the beliefs of Timothy McVeigh. They contend that McVeigh distanced himself from Christianity in an interview he gave to Time magazine in 2001.

Did he? Here's what he said:

Time: Are you religious?

McVeigh: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.

Time: Do you believe in God?

McVeigh: I do believe in a God, yes. But that's as far as I want to discuss. If I get too detailed on some things that are personal like that, it gives people an easier way [to] alienate themselves from me and that's all they are looking for now.

All this text discloses is that McVeigh distanced himself from Catholicism, not Christianity. It also reveals that he did not want to discuss his faith further because he knew most people would find it repulsive. What was repulsive about his faith? Was he an atheist? No. Was he a secular humanist? No.

From: http://athefist.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/was-timothy-mcveigh-an-atheist/

By 2001 he proclaimed that he did not believe in hell and that ‘Science is my god’.

This is the line that people quote but it is one that is attributed to him a full six years after the bombing. It is unusual that he seems to have had a deconversion in prison. Many people claim religious conversion, especially in American prisons, because it gets them better treatment and increases their chances of parole. Being on death row perhaps McVeigh was feeling more fatalistic or didn’t see the need to claim a faith as it would make no difference. He did resist a great deal of urging to become a Muslim during this time.

When it came time for him to be executed McVeigh seems to have rediscovered his religion. A day before he wrote to a paper describing himself as agnostic. On the day of his execution he took the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick and read the poem Invictus, which contains references to god and souls.

We’ll likely never really know what he thought or felt or believed, because he is dead.[/b][/u]
 

Mike

Well-known member
The whole McVeigh Christian thing was a contrived effort to lessen the reverence & respect of Christianity and to get the monkey off the Muslim's back.

Both were are Anti-American.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
OldBlowHard said:
These authors have it pegged to about what I have seen with my dealings with these hate groups that preach hate, fear, and anarchy...

Exactly what dealings have you had with these hate groups?

As prone as you are to brag about shyte that never happened or that you never did, I suspect the sum total of your dealings with these hate groups is nothing more than reading about them and imagining John Wayne-like OT takin' 'em all down singlehanded.

Years and years of dealings with the Posse Comitatus folks, then the Freemen movement- of who Schweitzer, Peterson and other leaders of were connected with the Aryan Nation... Also some of the survivalists that are now called Sovereigns always kept showing up... All rightwingernut extremist haters/anarchists that seemed to intertwine and everyone of them followed to some degree the teachings put forth by the Christian Identity....

Over the years we had to deal with these folks often - as they were the ones losing their places for failure to pay taxes- or pay back FSA loans- or just because of bad farm/business economics- or in several instances, like Bundy, squatting on government owned land... During which besides being condemned to Hell many times over I had to listen to how it was all the Jews, or the Blacks , or Governments fault... So when the KKK backers on this site call me names- they are amateurs compared to what I have dealt with in the past :wink:

The Posse Comitatus (Latin, "force of the county") is a loosely organized, far-right, social movement who spread a conspiracy-minded, anti-government and anti-semitic message in the name of white male Christians to counter what they believe is an attack on their social and political rights.

Many Posse members practice survivalism and played a role in the formation of the armed citizens' militias in the 1990s. The Posse Comitatus pioneered the use of false liens and other types of paper terrorism.
--------------------------
Some Posse members embraced the anti-semitic and white supremacist beliefs of Christian Identity. Some believe that the U.S. federal government is illegitimate and in the hands of Zionist Occupation Government (ZOG), an alleged Jewish conspiracy.

-----------------------------------
The Christian Identity movement first received widespread attention by mainstream media in 1984, when the white nationalist organization known as The Order embarked on a murderous crime spree before being taken down by the FBI. Tax resister and militia movement organizer Gordon Kahl, whose death in a 1983 shootout with authorities helped inspire The Order, also had connections to the Christian Identity movement.

The Montana Freemen were a Christian Patriot movement based outside the town of Jordan, Montana. The members of the group referred to their land as "Justus Township" and had declared themselves no longer under the authority of any outside government. They became the center of public attention in 1996 when they engaged in a prolonged armed standoff with agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
-----

The Montana Freemen espoused belief in the doctrine of individual sovereignty and rejected the authority of the federal government of the United States. They conceived their own system of government in "Justus Township", including their own versions of common-law court de jure, banking, and credit.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Over the years we had to deal with these folks often - as they were the ones losing their places for failure to pay taxes- or pay back FSA loans- or just because of bad farm/business economics- or in several instances, like Bundy, squatting on government owned land... During which besides being condemned to Hell many times over I had to listen to how it was all the Jews, or the Blacks , or Governments fault... So when the KKK backers on this site call me names- they are amateurs compared to what I have dealt with in the past

Ah okay. So it's Posse Comitatus = Aryan Nation = Soverigns = rightwing extremists = KKK = Christians = tea party members = conservatives = Rush Limbaugh.

Now I can see why you converted to Islam.
 

Mike

Well-known member
If you worked so closely with these organizations, and know/knew them so well, why do you have to quote Wikipedia for an explanation of them and their history?

Shouldn't you have retained some personal knowledge or know of better sources for their activities or is it because Wikipedia is the first references that come up when you google them?

Sorry to be so personal, but any credibility you might think you have was zeroed out years ago here on Ranchers.

You must understand that most folks here read your diatribe, then sit and giggle about how motherfricken stupid you sound with your obvious lies.

Have you no pride in yourself or are you retarded? There is help available but you must take the first step.
 

Steve

Well-known member
All this text discloses is that McVeigh distanced himself from Catholicism, not Christianity. It also reveals that he did not want to discuss his faith further because he knew most people would find it repulsive. What was repulsive about his faith? Was he an atheist? No. Was he a secular humanist? No.

all the article shows and proves is well nothing really...

he could have converted to the god of islam for all we know..

At ADX Florence, McVeigh and Nichols were housed in "Bomber's Row", the same cell block as Ted Kaczynski, Luis Felipe and Ramzi Yousef. Ramzi made frequent, unsuccessful attempts to convert McVeigh to Islam.[66]

McVeigh said:

I am sorry these people had to lose their lives. But that's the nature of the beast. It's understood going in what the human toll will be.[67]

He said that if there turned out to be an afterlife, he would "improvise, adapt and overcome",[67] noting that:

If there is a hell, then I'll be in good company with a lot of fighter pilots who also had to bomb innocents to win the war.

if anyone read abit on him, they could see,.. that from gambling to meth.. mcveigh was just another disillusioned drifter who was willing to kill to try to ease his anger.. but as fro faith.. he said he didn't know if there was a heaven or a hell.. (that's agnostic isn't it? )

nothing Christian about that.. and I doubt anyone will ever figure out what was going through his sick head..
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike said:
If you worked so closely with these organizations, and know/knew them so well, why do you have to quote Wikipedia for an explanation of them and their history?

Shouldn't you have retained some personal knowledge or know of better sources for their activities or is it because Wikipedia is the first references that come up when you google them?

Sorry to be so personal, but any credibility you might think you have was zeroed out years ago here on Ranchers.

You must understand that most folks here read your diatribe, then sit and giggle about how motherfricken stupid you sound with your obvious lies.

Have you no pride in yourself or are you retarded? There is help available but you must take the first step.

Spoken like one of those that used to pee their pants when the Deer Lodge doors slammed :wink: :D

Actually I don't know why I even answered it- as you and the character that lives in the commie country say you don't believe anything I say anyway-- But for the others I posted the Wikpedia info so they knew of who I was talking and that there were other sources that backed it up...
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Actually I don't know why I even answered it-

I know why you answered it. You answered it because when given a chance to talk about yourself, you're as dependable as the sun rising in the east.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Actually I don't know why I even answered it-

I know why you answered it. You answered it because when given a chance to talk about yourself, you're as dependable as the sun rising in the east.

Allah likes it when he faces east to pray. Except the fat sumbeech prolly can't get up off his knees without 10 others to lift him.
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Mike said:
If you worked so closely with these organizations, and know/knew them so well, why do you have to quote Wikipedia for an explanation of them and their history?

Shouldn't you have retained some personal knowledge or know of better sources for their activities or is it because Wikipedia is the first references that come up when you google them?

Sorry to be so personal, but any credibility you might think you have was zeroed out years ago here on Ranchers.

You must understand that most folks here read your diatribe, then sit and giggle about how motherfricken stupid you sound with your obvious lies.

Have you no pride in yourself or are you retarded? There is help available but you must take the first step.

Spoken like one of those that used to pee their pants when the Deer Lodge doors slammed :wink: :D

Actually I don't know why I even answered it- as you and the character that lives in the commie country say you don't believe anything I say anyway-- But for the others I posted the Wikpedia info so they knew of who I was talking and that there were other sources that backed it up...

You've made the statement more than once about making people piss their pants. You seem to have enjoyed trying to intimidate people and jubilant when you succeeded.

I would think jailing someone would be a very sobering event for them and you. One that should be taken seriously and professionally as you are taking away their freedom before they've even been tried. Not a time to mock someone or laugh at them.

Your finding enjoyment doesn't bode well for your character as a civic official.
 

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