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Pvt. Eddie Slovik

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Edward Donald Slovik (February 18, 1920 – January 31, 1945) was a private in the United States Army during World War II and the only American soldier to be court-martialled and executed for desertion since the American Civil War.[1][2]


While en route to his assigned unit, Slovik and a friend he met during basic training, Private John Tankey, took cover during an artillery attack and became separated from their replacement detachment. This was the point at which Slovik later stated he found he "wasn't cut out for combat." The next morning, they found a Canadian military police unit and remained with them for the next six weeks. Tankey wrote to their regiment to explain their absence before he and Slovik reported to their unit for duty on October 7, 1944. The US Army's rapid advance through France had caused many replacement soldiers to have trouble finding their assigned units, and so no charges were filed against Slovik or Tankey.

The following day on October 8, Slovik informed his company commander, Captain Ralph Grotte, that he was "too scared" to serve in a front-line rifle company and asked to be reassigned to a rear area unit. He told Grotte that he would run away if he were assigned to a rifle unit, and asked his captain if that would constitute desertion. Grotte confirmed that it would. He refused Slovik's request for reassignment and sent him to a rifle platoon.[8]

The next day, October 9, Slovik deserted from his infantry unit. His friend, John Tankey, caught up with him and attempted to persuade him to stay, but Slovik's only comment was that his "mind was made up". Slovik walked several miles to the rear and approached an enlisted cook at a headquarters detachment, presenting him with a note which stated:

I, Pvt. Eddie D. Slovik, 36896415, confess to the desertion of the United States Army. At the time of my desertion we were in Albuff [Elbeuf] in France. I came to Albuff as a replacement. They were shelling the town and we were told to dig in for the night. The following morning they were shelling us again. I was so scared, nerves and trembling, that at the time the other replacements moved out, I couldn’t move. I stayed there in my fox hole till it was quiet and I was able to move. I then walked into town. Not seeing any of our troops, so I stayed over night at a French hospital. The next morning I turned myself over to the Canadian Provost Corp. After being with them six weeks I was turned over to American M.R. They turned me loose. I told my commanding officer my story. I said that if I had to go out there again I'd run away. He said there was nothing he could do for me so I ran away again AND I'LL RUN AWAY AGAIN IF I HAVE TO GO OUT THERE.
—Signed Pvt. Eddie D. Slovik A.S.N. 36896415[4]

The cook summoned his company commander and an MP, who read the note and urged Slovik to destroy it before he was taken into custody, which Slovik refused. He was brought before Lieutenant Colonel Ross Henbest, who again offered him the opportunity to tear up the note, return to his unit, and face no further charges. After Slovik again refused, Henbest ordered Slovik to write another note on the back of the first one stating that he fully understood the legal consequences of deliberately incriminating himself with the note and that it would be used as evidence against him in a court martial.

Slovik was taken into custody and confined to the division stockade. The divisional judge advocate, Lieutenant Colonel Henry Sommer, again offered Slovik an opportunity to rejoin his unit and have the charges against him suspended. He offered to transfer Slovik to a different infantry regiment where no one would know of his past and he could start with a "clean slate". Slovik, convinced that he would face only jail time, which he had experienced and found preferable to combat, declined these offers, saying, "I've made up my mind. I'll take my court martial."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Did John McCain and Viet Nam era POW's collaborate with the enemy?

McCain was a prisoner of war for over 5 years and during that time he was subjected to successive rounds of just about every kind of torture imaginable, made worse by the injuries he sustained when he crashed his plane, and which never properly healed. The North Vietnamese violated every rule of the Geneva Convention in their treatment of prisoners and put a very high emphasis on getting what they could out of prisoners for propaganda purposes, such as confessions of war crimes or statements opposing the war. McCain was a particular target for these efforts because he father was commanding Admiral of the Pacific Fleet at the time. Under those conditions many prisoners cooperated to some extent with their captors. Some engaged in propaganda, most notably the eight prisoners famous for their meetings with US war protestors at the Hanoi Hilton. Others were less cooperative, and were punished for it. Some tried to escape and in many cases were killed for it as object lessons to the other prisoners.


Under the military Code of Conduct established after World War II, prisoners were only supposed to provide their name, rank and service number. Almost no prisoners in Vietnam observed that requirement to the letter. Yet after the war, the military ended up making the decision not to prosecute any of the Vietnam era prisoners of war, even those who had collaborated extensively or who had informed on other prisoners, on the basis that the level and duration of the torture to which they had been exposed rendered the code of conduct impractical to enforce. The code of conduct was effectively suspended retroactively for Vietnam POWs. - See more at: http://www.fontcraft.com/rod/?p=390#sthash.Z226Md6G.dpuf

Since Pvt. Slovik's time- many more medical studies and knowledge have been obtained on the effects of warfare, capture, and Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome... Much more knowledge is available on what will make a person snap- and the differing levels of how each individual reacts to stressors.. What Patton slapped up a kid for and called cowardice is now recognized as a major psychological disorder- and is treated as such, not penalizing the person for it...
 

Steve

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Did John McCain and Viet Nam era POW's collaborate with the enemy?

McCain was a prisoner of war for over 5 years and during that time he was subjected to successive rounds of just about every kind of torture imaginable, made worse by the injuries he sustained when he crashed his plane, and which never properly healed. The North Vietnamese violated every rule of the Geneva Convention in their treatment of prisoners and put a very high emphasis on getting what they could out of prisoners for propaganda purposes, such as confessions of war crimes or statements opposing the war. McCain was a particular target for these efforts because he father was commanding Admiral of the Pacific Fleet at the time. Under those conditions many prisoners cooperated to some extent with their captors. Some engaged in propaganda, most notably the eight prisoners famous for their meetings with US war protestors at the Hanoi Hilton. Others were less cooperative, and were punished for it. Some tried to escape and in many cases were killed for it as object lessons to the other prisoners.


Under the military Code of Conduct established after World War II, prisoners were only supposed to provide their name, rank and service number. Almost no prisoners in Vietnam observed that requirement to the letter. Yet after the war, the military ended up making the decision not to prosecute any of the Vietnam era prisoners of war, even those who had collaborated extensively or who had informed on other prisoners, on the basis that the level and duration of the torture to which they had been exposed rendered the code of conduct impractical to enforce. The code of conduct was effectively suspended retroactively for Vietnam POWs. - See more at: http://www.fontcraft.com/rod/?p=390#sthash.Z226Md6G.dpuf

Since Pvt. Slovik's time- many more medical studies and knowledge have been obtained on the effects of warfare, capture, and Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome... Much more knowledge is available on what will make a person snap- and the differing levels of how each individual reacts to stressors.. What Patton slapped up a kid for and called cowardice is now recognized as a major psychological disorder- and is treated as such, not penalizing the person for it...

when looking at your points,.. one can clearly see that you do not understand military justice.

The Code of Conduct was drafted in order to benefit soldiers.

President Eisenhower directed the creation of the Code of Conduct, as it is commonly referred to, in response to the experience of American POWís during the Korean War. The Code of Conduct dictates that members of the armed forces will receive training to help them counter and withstand all enemy efforts to force them to collaborate or divulge information and instruction as to the behavior and obligations expected of them during combat or captivity. American soldiers have tested the Code of Conduct in many conflicts since its implementation, with differing degrees of success. Although the Code of Conduct is not perfect, it provides American POW ís a touchstone by which they can live.

However, American soldiers continued to become POWís with little preparation for the ordeal they were to face. This was due, in large part, to the fact that most nations of the world viewed POWís as non-combatants whose participation in the conflict was terminated.

They would remain in captivity until the end of hostilities and then be
repatriated to their homeland. The Chinese use of American POWís as propaganda objects during the Korean War changed this attitude forever.

The Code of the U.S. Fighting Force is a code of conduct that is an "ethical guide" and a United States Department of Defense directive consisting of six articles to members of the United States Armed Forces, addressing how American military personnel in combat should act when they must "evade capture, resist while a prisoner or escape from the enemy." It is considered an important part of U.S. military doctrine but is not formal military law

understanding the Code of conduct one clearly sees that you can't retroactively suspend it..

"The code of conduct was effectively suspended retroactively for Vietnam POWs "

wrong,.. wrong,.. wrong.. you can't suspend an idea,.. a code.. a guide..

It is for the POW,.. it is a code they can use to guide themselves ethically when in custody of the enemy..

before you talk about the code of conduct your should read it first...

I doubt anyone would fully understand it unless they themselves were a prisoner..




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_United_States_Fighting_Force
[/quote]
 

Steve

Well-known member
While on the subject of the code of conduct...

did anyone notice how few men and woman became POW's in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars..

even Benghazi is a fine example of the code working..



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Iraq_War_prisoners_of_war





0fd3c08ce.png


According to the Pentagon's Defense Prisoner of War/Missing Personnel Office, there are currently 83,204 unaccounted for U.S. personnel, including 73,547 from World War II, 7,883 from the Korean War, 126 from the Cold War, 1,642 from the Vietnam War, and six from Iraq and other recent conflicts, including three Defense Department contractors who went missing during the most recent conflict in Iraq.

the low number just shows me the code has worked as it was intended.

even in vietnam
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Steve said:
Oldtimer said:
Did John McCain and Viet Nam era POW's collaborate with the enemy?

McCain was a prisoner of war for over 5 years and during that time he was subjected to successive rounds of just about every kind of torture imaginable, made worse by the injuries he sustained when he crashed his plane, and which never properly healed. The North Vietnamese violated every rule of the Geneva Convention in their treatment of prisoners and put a very high emphasis on getting what they could out of prisoners for propaganda purposes, such as confessions of war crimes or statements opposing the war. McCain was a particular target for these efforts because he father was commanding Admiral of the Pacific Fleet at the time. Under those conditions many prisoners cooperated to some extent with their captors. Some engaged in propaganda, most notably the eight prisoners famous for their meetings with US war protestors at the Hanoi Hilton. Others were less cooperative, and were punished for it. Some tried to escape and in many cases were killed for it as object lessons to the other prisoners.


Under the military Code of Conduct established after World War II, prisoners were only supposed to provide their name, rank and service number. Almost no prisoners in Vietnam observed that requirement to the letter. Yet after the war, the military ended up making the decision not to prosecute any of the Vietnam era prisoners of war, even those who had collaborated extensively or who had informed on other prisoners, on the basis that the level and duration of the torture to which they had been exposed rendered the code of conduct impractical to enforce. The code of conduct was effectively suspended retroactively for Vietnam POWs. - See more at: http://www.fontcraft.com/rod/?p=390#sthash.Z226Md6G.dpuf

Since Pvt. Slovik's time- many more medical studies and knowledge have been obtained on the effects of warfare, capture, and Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome... Much more knowledge is available on what will make a person snap- and the differing levels of how each individual reacts to stressors.. What Patton slapped up a kid for and called cowardice is now recognized as a major psychological disorder- and is treated as such, not penalizing the person for it...

when looking at your points,.. one can clearly see that you do not understand military justice.

The Code of Conduct was drafted in order to benefit soldiers.

President Eisenhower directed the creation of the Code of Conduct, as it is commonly referred to, in response to the experience of American POWís during the Korean War. The Code of Conduct dictates that members of the armed forces will receive training to help them counter and withstand all enemy efforts to force them to collaborate or divulge information and instruction as to the behavior and obligations expected of them during combat or captivity. American soldiers have tested the Code of Conduct in many conflicts since its implementation, with differing degrees of success. Although the Code of Conduct is not perfect, it provides American POW ís a touchstone by which they can live.

However, American soldiers continued to become POWís with little preparation for the ordeal they were to face. This was due, in large part, to the fact that most nations of the world viewed POWís as non-combatants whose participation in the conflict was terminated.

They would remain in captivity until the end of hostilities and then be
repatriated to their homeland. The Chinese use of American POWís as propaganda objects during the Korean War changed this attitude forever.

The Code of the U.S. Fighting Force is a code of conduct that is an "ethical guide" and a United States Department of Defense directive consisting of six articles to members of the United States Armed Forces, addressing how American military personnel in combat should act when they must "evade capture, resist while a prisoner or escape from the enemy." It is considered an important part of U.S. military doctrine but is not formal military law

understanding the Code of conduct one clearly sees that you can't retroactively suspend it..

"The code of conduct was effectively suspended retroactively for Vietnam POWs "

wrong,.. wrong,.. wrong.. you can't suspend an idea,.. a code.. a guide..

It is for the POW,.. it is a code they can use to guide themselves ethically when in custody of the enemy..

before you talk about the code of conduct your should read it first...

I doubt anyone would fully understand it unless they themselves were a prisoner..




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_United_States_Fighting_Force
[/quote]

Do you believe Pvt. Slovik would have been shot today?

I don't... I worked with a PTSD team- and am aware that everyone has a different breaking point- and break in different ways...
And the ones we watched the most - both military and emergency services- were those that exhibited what we called the "John Wayne syndrome"... Those that had to act the toughest, who could not exhibit any emotion such as fear or sorrow (tears were a no-no)- and would hold all their emotion inside them... Until that emotion built so big- and often did them (and sometimes others) the most harm when they broke...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Do you believe Pvt. Slovik would have been shot today?

I don't... I worked with a PTSD team- and am aware that everyone has a

I don't either...volunteer now. Bergahl volunteered, correct? Knew what he was in for, correct?

Did Slovik?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
Do you believe Pvt. Slovik would have been shot today?

I don't... I worked with a PTSD team- and am aware that everyone has a

I don't either...volunteer now. Bergahl volunteered, correct? Knew what he was in for, correct?

Did Slovik?

Do you ever know what you were in for/volunteering for before you have been to war... Body parts- dead babies- bullets flying by your head- friends injured or killed in front of you.. :???: Can all the finest training in the world really prepare anyone for the reality of this?

Volunteers have breaking points too... And some of those that talk the talk the loudest about being the toughest and what they would/are going to do- hit bottom the hardest when they do break...

I watched some TV interviews last night- the talking heads were ex-military commanders and they said that if all these alleged reports of Berghals statements and actions in Afghanistan are true then they saw a break down in command... They said his commanders should have taken steps to get him "off the line" and reassigned or into treatment...
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
shoulda, woulda, coulda.
What really SHOULDA happened is 5 terrorists should not have been set free. And today Obama "makes no apologies."

Do you see the writing on the wall, OT? Obama is going to do exactly
what he wants. And why not? He gets away with it. Both parties
are to blame for that. There is no longer any truth or consequences.

Like Whitewing has said, "America, as we knew it, is toast."
 

Steve

Well-known member
as you should know working with a PTSD team... PTSD is often silent.. and happens in all walks of life..

those in his command already said he was a bit odd, and that they should have noticed or caught him stepping over the edge..

BUT,.. there is no excuse for helping the enemy..

and that is what seems to bother most of those who served with him..

I am trying really hard not to judge him,..

but given his actions and those lost trying to get him back.. I am not ready to throw a parade for him..
 

hopalong

Well-known member
How many firefights have you been in oldtimer??? you are trying to come across as have been in bunches of them. bet you have never really been shot at or even drawn your gun except for practice... A county of less than 6500 must have had hundreds of incidents for you to pull your gun!!!! Except to show it to the ladies at the bar who you had surround you for protection..... :wink: :wink: :wink: [/list]
 

Steve

Well-known member
Silver said:
Didn't Israel exchange 1000 for 1?

Israel has created an incentive to take hostages.. something few other countries have done,


Israel announced a deal this week to bring home soldier Gilad Shalit, taken hostage by Hamas militants in 2006. In exchange, the country will free 1,027 Palestinian prisoners. On a per-Israeli basis, that’s more than double what was paid in a famous 1985 swap, when Israel traded 1,150 security prisoners for three soldiers captured in the first Lebanon War.

Israel has released an estimated 7,000 Palestinians and other Arab prisoners over the past three decades in exchange for the freedom of 16 Israelis.



there are reasons to negotiate with hostage takers..

police and the FBI do it all the time... a crime goes wrong.. and the criminals take hostages..

terrorism is a crime... but often the goal is to use the prisoner/hostage as propaganda ..

if the goal is to save lives, free the hostage and bring the criminals to justice.. then talk away..

but if the goal is to bribe the terrorists and free other terrorists..

then is the life saved worth more then the lives that will be lost?
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Steve said:
Silver said:
Didn't Israel exchange 1000 for 1?

Israel has created an incentive to take hostages.. something few other countries have done,


Israel announced a deal this week to bring home soldier Gilad Shalit, taken hostage by Hamas militants in 2006. In exchange, the country will free 1,027 Palestinian prisoners. On a per-Israeli basis, that’s more than double what was paid in a famous 1985 swap, when Israel traded 1,150 security prisoners for three soldiers captured in the first Lebanon War.

Israel has released an estimated 7,000 Palestinians and other Arab prisoners over the past three decades in exchange for the freedom of 16 Israelis.





then is the life saved worth more then the lives that will be lost?

Apparently Obama thought so.
 
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