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Question for Hereford Breeders

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PPRM

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So, as an organization, where do you see the Hereford Breed going. From the other thread the two big plusses I see with Herefords are disposition and they are 1/2 of the equation in making Black Baldies....

If I look at Angus, I know I will tend to get cattle that are easy calving, good mothers and grade well. If I look at Simmental, I get size and good Maternal instincts. If I look at Charlais, I get muscle and a good growthy calf in a terminal cross. Within breeds, there's some people doing different things. But I guess I really don't know what I am doing for my cowherd if I start introducing Herefords........


So here's your chance, as a breeder, what are Herefords going to do for me? I am not being a smart-aleck, it is just in the other thread, I got to thinking, what are the traits that Herefords provide that I want in my herd? I am not anti Hereford, but when it comes to breeding, I choose bulls based on where I want to go with my herd, so where will the Herefords take me?

Hope this is taken as a sincere question as that is how I am asking it,

PPRM
 

jigs

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I run horned Herefords, and one of the cows got stuck by an Angus bull. well, I see that cross calf growing much faster that my other calves. I has me thinking I should double the cows, and put a black bull on half.

If you go Hereford, do not go polled. I have had a couple polled bulls and the calves were terrible. I think the polled end of the Herefords is a genetic joke.
 

Shelly

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And WE run polled! We asked a horned hereford guy why horned was supposed to be better than polled. He couldn't come up with one logical answer. In my opinion, they calve alot easier because of the polled head. They don't have that triangular look to their head. They grow just as well as any other calf, it's all in the way they are managed.

PPRM, if you're looking for a reason.......DOCILITY!!!! Hereford will take the wild out of just about anything. We cross Red and Black Angus, Simmental, and Pinzgauer, and those calves are just a whole lot easier to work with, and the heifers we retain turn into nice, manageable cows. Most will eventually let you lay your hand on them somewhere without bolting.
 

Northern Rancher

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Our black baldie cows are alot more fertile than our straightbred black cows-not very often you see the crayon come out when the vet is arming a baldie. So far we haven't been beat up too bad on the grid with our Hereford X finished cattle. As for polled-there are some good ones out there but when I was buying cattle I had alot of feedlots warn us not to send them any. I think the Hereford breed as a whole has got to get a handle on their birthweights-find out which lines got a little help from Simmental-don't kid yourself there are several-I was beyond P.O.'ed when I a.i'ed to Titan 7777 and all my black cows had smokes. There are actually quite a few of my A'I customers going to breed Hereford this year instead of Angus.
 

PPRM

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I actually do some SimmintalxAngus crossing. I think Black Baldy calves are a ton more vigorous than Simmental x Angus, but I havcen't been losing any, so not a reason to switch......I look at the cross I use as helping me more with Carcass wts and grid performance, maybe just a perception issue...And I have had No calving problems....

So far Docility seems to be the common thread.....Anything else?

PPRM
 

SDSteve

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If you breed your straight Angus cows Hereford instead of Angus I can guarantee you an extra fifty pounds at weaning if you use similar bulls for quality. Between certified Hereford beef and Ridgefield Farms premium Hereford beef demand for Hereford cattle is growing every year. As far as the difference between horned and polled goes alot of polled cattle have horned breeding behind them and alot of horned cattle have some polled blood. It ain't like if was forty years ago. Kind of like when all the breeds rushed for blacks and they were far inferior to the reds in the same breed. Today the blacks are just as good as the reds in most breeds. As far as birth weight goes I breed all of my solid black heifers Hereford and I have less calving problems with them then my Baldy and red heifers bred to high dollar Angus "heifer" bulls.
 

Denny

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Shelly said:
And WE run polled! We asked a horned hereford guy why horned was supposed to be better than polled. He couldn't come up with one logical answer. In my opinion, they calve alot easier because of the polled head. They don't have that triangular look to their head. They grow just as well as any other calf, it's all in the way they are managed.

PPRM, if you're looking for a reason.......DOCILITY!!!! Hereford will take the wild out of just about anything. We cross Red and Black Angus, Simmental, and Pinzgauer, and those calves are just a whole lot easier to work with, and the heifers we retain turn into nice, manageable cows. Most will eventually let you lay your hand on them somewhere without bolting.

Alot of polled bulls should have been cut only reason they stayed bulls was due to being polled so thats one reason they are a hard sell.
 

Juan

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Don't know how your range conditions compare with ours but here survivability is where the Hereford outshines all the others.I'm not bs-ing you when I tell you that we have had storms where hundreds of blacks a few miles away died and we lost not one.We don't feed supplements and ---minerals only certain times of the year.
Our percentage of calves weaned to cows exposed has never been below 95%.
 

Shelly

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Denny said:
Shelly said:
And WE run polled! We asked a horned hereford guy why horned was supposed to be better than polled. He couldn't come up with one logical answer. In my opinion, they calve alot easier because of the polled head. They don't have that triangular look to their head. They grow just as well as any other calf, it's all in the way they are managed.

PPRM, if you're looking for a reason.......DOCILITY!!!! Hereford will take the wild out of just about anything. We cross Red and Black Angus, Simmental, and Pinzgauer, and those calves are just a whole lot easier to work with, and the heifers we retain turn into nice, manageable cows. Most will eventually let you lay your hand on them somewhere without bolting.

Alot of polled bulls should have been cut only reason they stayed bulls was due to being polled so thats one reason they are a hard sell.



There's alot of horned that should've been cut, too. Hell, there's lots in any breed that should've been cut!
 

cert

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I prefer the horned herefords. They are rugged, big framed, wide hipped, natrually thicker and excellent mammas. I also run some polls. Matter of fact, the base of my herd is polled and came from the Rice Dispersal.
Horned and polled is a regional thing to an extent. I have problems selling horned cattle to Ohio breeders. But they love the horned steers. I know of ranchers in North Dakota that have trouble selling polled cattle there.
I grew up on a dairy farm. The holsteins were horned. Dehorning is not a big deal to me. Burn them off when they are little and there will be no discount at the sale barn.
Most people around here like the deep, dark red of the polled cattle. The horned tend to be more of an orange color. I have noticed that with the exception of the Feltons line the polled cattle have a generally lower milk EPD.
My horned cattle are wide hipped...almost never a calving problem with them.
I used a polled bull for clean up forever. Saw Mrnak's cattle in Denver a few years back and fell in love with their cattle. We have a horned bull that I am very proud of. First full calf crop will be here starting in 30 days. I'm chomping at the bit.

I do have some issues with the Hereford association and am no longer registering cattle. More folding money in my pocket at the end of the year.


The black baldies I run are from a black simmy sire. I can't say enough good about them.
 

PPRM

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Absolutely right there Shelly, but that could end up in a 5 page thread, LOL...


SD Steve, you are absolutely right, heterosis is the only free thing in this game.......That is why I like crossbreds...If I had less forage resources, well, I might like a Black Baldie a lot better than my SImmentalxAngus


Jason, as I think about it, Isee Herefords in Arizona and Clear up to some very cold areas...and they do look a lot different....

So, so far I am getting docility, heterosis in a cross breeding program and survivability in some extreme climates and some potential marketing/branded beef opportunituntities.....I wouldn't argue these at all. Anything else?

What would breeding to Herefords do to my Carcass traits??? Like I said, my questions are sincere. I am asking out loud, many folks ask themselves the same question silently when evaluating a breeding program....


PPRM
 

jigs

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my main problem with polled Herefords is with the bull. My in laws ran one for two seasons. Never again. they had more trouble with the calves than normal, switched back to horned bulls and the problems disappeared.

my big problem is the manlyness of the bull. a polled bull just looks like a one titted cow. no matter how big, how thick, he still looks too girly for me.
nothing sets off a Hereford bull like those horns.....

I will buy a bull based on looks before I ever bought a bunch of numbers that are too easily fudged.
EPD are a waste of time to me.
 

Northern Rancher

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n old Hereford breeder told me once-'nothing starves better ' lol.The premium replacement for alot of guys up here is a Hfd/Simm F1. I've seen guys buy purebred horned hereford heifers(good ones) for less money than their Herf/Simm heifer calves bring-crazy huh.
 
A

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Northern Rancher said:
Our black baldie cows are alot more fertile than our straightbred black cows-not very often you see the crayon come out when the vet is arming a baldie. So far we haven't been beat up too bad on the grid with our Hereford X finished cattle. As for polled-there are some good ones out there but when I was buying cattle I had alot of feedlots warn us not to send them any. I think the Hereford breed as a whole has got to get a handle on their birthweights-find out which lines got a little help from Simmental-don't kid yourself there are several-I was beyond P.O.'ed when I a.i'ed to Titan 7777 and all my black cows had smokes. There are actually quite a few of my A'I customers going to breed Hereford this year instead of Angus.

That brings up something I saw yesterday- Watched part of the Courtney Hereford sale on Superior--They announced that 4 or 5 of the bulls had tested positive for carrying the dilutor gene and could throw a grey calf when bred to black cows- does this mean they have Simmi in them somewhere?....I haven't had a Hereford bull for 25 years- do have a few Hereford cows left I picked up as heifers and save some of the baldy heifers out of them for replacements- but I have never had any smokes, greys, or rattails from any Hereford I've had.....
 

cowsense

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PPRM- an interesting thread here! I feel that Herefords do an excellent job of providing the basic traits to any crossbreeding program. They can add hardiness, rustling ability, improve temperment and feed conversions when bred to any breed. One of the MOST important traits in crosses is that the white/brockle face readily identifies them as being at least part British compared to the multitudes of breeds chasing the "black or red" color!!
Herefords (like the other British cattle) will give up some carcass yield to the continentals but cross them once and they'll yield with them, improve carcass grade and will usually show improved feed efficiency with a lower cost of gain!
You should try AI'ing a few cows hereford- your cowherd should give you some superbaldies to work with!
 

Denny

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Shelly said:
Denny said:
Shelly said:
And WE run polled! We asked a horned hereford guy why horned was supposed to be better than polled. He couldn't come up with one logical answer. In my opinion, they calve alot easier because of the polled head. They don't have that triangular look to their head. They grow just as well as any other calf, it's all in the way they are managed.

PPRM, if you're looking for a reason.......DOCILITY!!!! Hereford will take the wild out of just about anything. We cross Red and Black Angus, Simmental, and Pinzgauer, and those calves are just a whole lot easier to work with, and the heifers we retain turn into nice, manageable cows. Most will eventually let you lay your hand on them somewhere without bolting.

Alot of polled bulls should have been cut only reason they stayed bulls was due to being polled so thats one reason they are a hard sell.



There's alot of horned that should've been cut, too. Hell, there's lots in any breed that should've been cut!

In the quest for polled the breeders looked past alot of important traits to get the polled this happened in more than just the Hereford breed though.But for me If I ever use anything other than black angus it would be Horned Hereford,but to each is own.
 

Faster horses

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My husband thinks there is nothing better than an Angus cow, and nothing better than a Horned Hereford bull.

But we still run Angus cows and Angus bulls, mainly because we don't have a big enough bunch to keep replacement heifers AND breed for black baldie calves.

While the BB cow is superior in many ways, it is downhill from there. The F1 is almost impossible to duplicate. And while they can be great cows, they also can carry with them some of the problems that made hereford cows less desirable.
 

Northern Rancher

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Do tell-and what might those problems be-real fan of baldies after working those @#$%^&^&$%% EXT's today-I think I'll get some sows they herd up better.
 

PPRM

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Cowsense,


I'd probably be more likely to pick up some bred cows here and there, that seems to work for me.....On the improvedd carcass grade, are we talking Yield, Quality or both?


PPRM
 

Murgen

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I agree with cowsense,
in saying that, use an F1, with horned hereford in the mix, and breed the black baldie back to a terminal cross to get the muscle and growth.

I like a 3 way cross as a feeder. Mix the best. But don't go over a three way cross. 23% is where it it is at!
 

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