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Question for OT?

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
OT, it's obvious that you have a problem with Oil companies receiving tax credits and having the opportunity to make a profit.

My questions?

Why do you not have a problem bailing out the industries that rely on those energy resources to make a profit, at taxpayer expense?

Does not the expense and obligation to the taxpayer increase, if the tax burden is placed closer to the end user?

What effect do expenses have on profit, compared to market value of a finished product?

Furthermore, why have you not spoken up about the opportunity that these big bad oil companies will have to profit off carbon credits, under any type of cap and trade system?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I'm ready for Cap and Trade- if they allow it to go full force as I have boukou acres of land that will qualify for payments off cap and trade....

Bring it on...My neighbors have been involved and profitting for years- the problem is there wasn't enough bidders....

But I agree- it may not benifit those that have lived for years off the lease government land that they have tried to use/buy/sell it as their own private property just because they have a lease.... To me that is tough Sh*t......It wasn't meant to be owned by anyone- or the government would have given/sold it to them years ago....

As my NRCS person told me years ago- its the way of the future- and if you're not ready for it- and living back in the 20th Century- you're going to be left behind...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Sounds like you're okay with it as long as you and other corporations can profit off the deal.

What's it going to do to the economy? How is the income you gain from your production going to be affected?
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
I'm ready for Cap and Trade- if they allow it to go full force as I have boukou acres of land that will qualify for payments off cap and trade....

Bring it on...My neighbors have been involved and profitting for years- the problem is there wasn't enough bidders....

But I agree- it may not benifit those that have lived for years off the lease government land that they have tried to use/buy/sell it as their own private property just because they have a lease.... To me that is tough Sh*t......It wasn't meant to be owned by anyone- or the government would have given/sold it to them years ago....

As my NRCS person told me years ago- its the way of the future- and if you're not ready for it- and living back in the 20th Century- you're going to be left behind...

Dang, you are a true liberal - screw the country as long as I get mine..... I thought better of you.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
I'm ready for Cap and Trade- if they allow it to go full force as I have boukou acres of land that will qualify for payments off cap and trade....

Bring it on...My neighbors have been involved and profitting for years- the problem is there wasn't enough bidders....

But I agree- it may not benifit those that have lived for years off the lease government land that they have tried to use/buy/sell it as their own private property just because they have a lease.... To me that is tough Sh*t......It wasn't meant to be owned by anyone- or the government would have given/sold it to them years ago....

As my NRCS person told me years ago- its the way of the future- and if you're not ready for it- and living back in the 20th Century- you're going to be left behind...

Dang, you are a true liberal - screw the country as long as I get mine..... I thought better of you.

Not screw the country- evolve with the changing business world of the 21st Century....

If you want to go back to Mikes and the "Bubbas" world of the 1860's- slaves- white supremacy- barefoot and pregnant wives that stay in the kitchen or bedroom-government land because your grandfather was there ---you're going to have to go somewhere else....
The handwriting has been on the wall for years....
 

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Quite possibly the carbon credits will go to the manager of the land as it has to be managed properly to sequester carbon. Therefore the lessee should get the payment as the manager.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
I'm ready for Cap and Trade- if they allow it to go full force as I have boukou acres of land that will qualify for payments off cap and trade....

Bring it on...My neighbors have been involved and profitting for years- the problem is there wasn't enough bidders....

But I agree- it may not benifit those that have lived for years off the lease government land that they have tried to use/buy/sell it as their own private property just because they have a lease.... To me that is tough Sh*t......It wasn't meant to be owned by anyone- or the government would have given/sold it to them years ago....

As my NRCS person told me years ago- its the way of the future- and if you're not ready for it- and living back in the 20th Century- you're going to be left behind...

Dang, you are a true liberal - screw the country as long as I get mine..... I thought better of you.

Not screw the country- evolve with the changing business world of the 21st Century....

If you want to go back to Mikes and the "Bubbas" world of the 1860's- slaves- white supremacy- barefoot and pregnant wives that stay in the kitchen or bedroom-government land because your grandfather was there ---you're going to have to go somewhere else....
The handwriting has been on the wall for years....

OT breaks free of the tried and true methods of business and natural law.

Welcome to the 21st Century OT.

46.jpg
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Big Muddy rancher said:
Quite possibly the carbon credits will go to the manager of the land as it has to be managed properly to sequester carbon. Therefore the lessee should get the payment as the manager.

I doubt it- I'm sure the feds or the state will take it...Montana has thousands of acres of public land- state, federal, and tribal interspersed with private- and never divided off....And they tried to tax that for public use- even tho the public owns it...
Like two county attorneys have told me when they asked for tickets to be dismissed because they knew they could never get a conviction- that they knew they could never get a jury to convict anyone for trespassing on land they own as much as everyone else... :???:

Its the coming future- like it or not......Theres a whole lot more hikers, skiers, sightseers, and day horseback riders, etc. etc. than there are Ag producers (and all Ag producers do is fight amongst themselves and different levels and have never been organized)- and the only way the state kept this income alive is when they incoporated it into the Conservation license for hunters- as few/none were paying it before- and its a wonder (only because its so cheap) someone hasn't challenged it already.....

A State Land Recreation Use Permit is required for anyone conducting a non-commercial activity on State Trust Lands not related to hunting and fishing. Applicable non-commercial activities include, but are not limited to, hiking, skiing, sightseeing, and day horseback use.

The State Land Recreation Use Permit is not required when using State Trust Lands for hunting or fishing, because a $2.00 fee is included in the Montana Conservation License for use of these lands.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
I'm ready for Cap and Trade- if they allow it to go full force as I have boukou acres of land that will qualify for payments off cap and trade....

Bring it on...My neighbors have been involved and profitting for years- the problem is there wasn't enough bidders....

But I agree- it may not benifit those that have lived for years off the lease government land that they have tried to use/buy/sell it as their own private property just because they have a lease.... To me that is tough Sh*t......It wasn't meant to be owned by anyone- or the government would have given/sold it to them years ago....

As my NRCS person told me years ago- its the way of the future- and if you're not ready for it- and living back in the 20th Century- you're going to be left behind...

Dang, you are a true liberal - screw the country as long as I get mine..... I thought better of you.

Not screw the country- evolve with the changing business world of the 21st Century....

If you want to go back to Mikes and the "Bubbas" world of the 1860's- slaves- white supremacy- barefoot and pregnant wives that stay in the kitchen or bedroom-government land because your grandfather was there ---you're going to have to go somewhere else....
The handwriting has been on the wall for years....

Did you notice what happened to the economy (and ranch profitiabilty) last year with high energy prices? You're not going to make enough from your carbon check to offset the losses you'll take in cattle, wheat, corn, whatever you raise. An economy on life support will nosedive. And for what? Some BS notion that has just as many scientists laughing at it as support it?

Some day, we'll all look back on this like we look back on blood-letting, the Salem witch trials, flat earth, etc... and wonder just what the hell were we thinking. For the good of all of us, we had better hope that day comes soon.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
Dang, you are a true liberal - screw the country as long as I get mine..... I thought better of you.

Not screw the country- evolve with the changing business world of the 21st Century....

If you want to go back to Mikes and the "Bubbas" world of the 1860's- slaves- white supremacy- barefoot and pregnant wives that stay in the kitchen or bedroom-government land because your grandfather was there ---you're going to have to go somewhere else....
The handwriting has been on the wall for years....

Did you notice what happened to the economy (and ranch profitiabilty) last year with high energy prices? You're not going to make enough from your carbon check to offset the losses you'll take in cattle, wheat, corn, whatever you raise. An economy on life support will nosedive. And for what? Some BS notion that has just as many scientists laughing at it as support it?

Some day, we'll all look back on this like we look back on blood-letting, the Salem witch trials, flat earth, etc... and wonder just what the hell were we thinking. For the good of all of us, we had better hope that day comes soon.

Or the "Asleep at the Wheel" Bush Bust :???: :wink:

The Halliburton/Bush/Cheney/Oil Cartel buddies energy policy helped economically to stick us where we are :( :( -its a time for "change"...

I'd rather pay extra costs for energy to get us off foreign oil dependence, than pay to kiss Chavez and the Arab Princes arses- and fight foreign wars for them....

image3699739g-1.jpg


BCFiraqoil.jpg
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
And just what is the plan, PLAN not FANTASY, of Obama's that will get us off foreign oil? When is the anticipated freedom date? How is he going to replace that energy? How many wind turbines will it take to replace what we get from coal?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
And just what is the plan, PLAN not FANTASY, of Obama's that will get us off foreign oil? When is the anticipated freedom date? How is he going to replace that energy? How many wind turbines will it take to replace what we get from coal?

Its going to take years- but we have to start somewhere and sometime... Just like Jimmy Carter said in testifying to Congress the other day ( and history has made him look a lot smarter now than he did 30 years ago)- if we had started 30 years ago when these foreign governments started holding us hostage- and dictating our foreign policy with oil- we may not have had to relive it several times over- and might be to the place we could tell them where to stick it....

And the Repub Champions only alternative was----100 years of war and Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran :roll: :( :(

Time to try alternatives....
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
And just what is the plan, PLAN not FANTASY, of Obama's that will get us off foreign oil? When is the anticipated freedom date? How is he going to replace that energy? How many wind turbines will it take to replace what we get from coal?

Its going to take years- but we have to start somewhere and sometime... Just like Jimmy Carter said in testifying to Congress the other day ( and history has made him look a lot smarter now than he did 30 years ago)- if we had started 30 years ago when these foreign governments started holding us hostage- and dictating our foreign policy with oil- we may not have had to relive it several times over- and might be to the place we could tell them where to stick it....

And the Repub Champions only alternative was----100 years of war and Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran :roll: :( :(

Time to try alternatives....

So then there is no plan...... brilliant. We bankrupt the county for a poke and a hope............. absolutely brilliant. Superb leadership. Our alterntives and "change" is to dive headfirst where we know absolutly nothing about where we're diving. What a great idea. We can all sleep soundly now. Brilliant. What a great man this Obama is.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
And just what is the plan, PLAN not FANTASY, of Obama's that will get us off foreign oil? When is the anticipated freedom date? How is he going to replace that energy? How many wind turbines will it take to replace what we get from coal?

Its going to take years- but we have to start somewhere and sometime... Just like Jimmy Carter said in testifying to Congress the other day ( and history has made him look a lot smarter now than he did 30 years ago)- if we had started 30 years ago when these foreign governments started holding us hostage- and dictating our foreign policy with oil- we may not have had to relive it several times over- and might be to the place we could tell them where to stick it....

And the Repub Champions only alternative was----100 years of war and Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran :roll: :( :(

Time to try alternatives....

So then there is no plan...... brilliant. We bankrupt the county for a poke and a hope............. absolutely brilliant. Superb leadership. Our alterntives and "change" is to dive headfirst where we know absolutly nothing about where we're diving. What a great idea. We can all sleep soundly now. Brilliant. What a great man this Obama is.

Oh there is a plan- its a plan of diversification- the same as in agriculture- and not sticking all your eggs in one basket...
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
In 2006 subsidies for ethanol ranged from $1.05/gallon to $1.38/gallon.

Based on a gasoline equivalent basis that equaled between $1.42 to $1.87 per gallon.

http://www.globalsubsidies.org/en

Biofuel subsidies are on average $7.3 Billion per year.

Bush set a target for biofuel subsidies that will require an additional $118 billion by the year 2017.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
Its going to take years- but we have to start somewhere and sometime... Just like Jimmy Carter said in testifying to Congress the other day ( and history has made him look a lot smarter now than he did 30 years ago)- if we had started 30 years ago when these foreign governments started holding us hostage- and dictating our foreign policy with oil- we may not have had to relive it several times over- and might be to the place we could tell them where to stick it....

And the Repub Champions only alternative was----100 years of war and Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran :roll: :( :(

Time to try alternatives....

So then there is no plan...... brilliant. We bankrupt the county for a poke and a hope............. absolutely brilliant. Superb leadership. Our alterntives and "change" is to dive headfirst where we know absolutly nothing about where we're diving. What a great idea. We can all sleep soundly now. Brilliant. What a great man this Obama is.

Oh there is a plan- its a plan of diversification- the same as in agriculture- and not sticking all your eggs in one basket...

OK then, what is the diversification plan? We know how much energy we get from coal and foreign oil, so we know what has to be replaced. What are we going to diversify into and how much energy are we going to get from each category and when?
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Sandhusker, before OT answers the question on coal, maybe he should know that coal imports doubled between 2001 and 2006, to 36.2 million tons.

By 2015, the US will become a net importer of coal.

Coal that is imported from Columbia, Venezuela, Indonesia and Russia and China is of lower sulfur content, than most coal in the US.

These imports of lower sulfur content coal allow for the plants to meet sulfur dioxide emission regulations.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Sandhusker, before OT answers the question on coal, maybe he should know that coal imports doubled between 2001 and 2006, to 36.2 million tons.

By 2015, the US will become a net importer of coal.

Coal that is imported from Columbia, Venezuela, Indonesia and Russia and China is of lower sulfur content, than most coal in the US.

These imports of lower sulfur content coal allow for the plants to meet sulfur dioxide emission regulations.

We've got clean coal, but our last great Democrat president made it inaccessable. Seems he had a buddy in another country that was in the coal business.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
So then there is no plan...... brilliant. We bankrupt the county for a poke and a hope............. absolutely brilliant. Superb leadership. Our alterntives and "change" is to dive headfirst where we know absolutly nothing about where we're diving. What a great idea. We can all sleep soundly now. Brilliant. What a great man this Obama is.

Oh there is a plan- its a plan of diversification- the same as in agriculture- and not sticking all your eggs in one basket...

OK then, what is the diversification plan? We know how much energy we get from coal and foreign oil, so we know what has to be replaced. What are we going to diversify into and how much energy are we going to get from each category and when?

I don't think the bill is out of Congress yet-- as proposed- not exactly all that I would like to see- or what Obama originally proposed- or what old Jimmy would like (he wants to see more nuclear added in)-- but its something....

The alternative was nothing.....

I personally would like to see more emphasis on clean coal and LPG- as well as nuclear, solar, wind, biofuels, ethanol, etc. etc... As old Boone says- "we're not going to drill our way out of this problem, this time"- and thats all the Repubs have been able to say "Drill, Drill, Drill...I agree with Boone and many of the energy experts around the world- much of it is depending on the battery technology that can be developed in the next 10-15 years....And thats where much of the money should be stuck....

All GW did was let his Oil buddies and his french kissing Arab Princes rob us blind- while he and Cheney even refused to tell who they talked to when they came up with their socalled "energy policy".......
Like Carter said- even the CAFE standards that were developed during his administration- were later thrown out the window giving the oil companies free run to rape and pillage...
 
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