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Question for the Canucks

A

Anonymous

Guest
For all the Canuck Tams and Bills that seem to think they know more about whats happening in the US than anyone else-- you seem to have "~SH~ proof" that the Alabama cow was under 10 years old, that zillions of US cows were mistested-- so you should know all the answers on whats happening at home- eh...

What is coming out to explain all the Canadian POST feedban positives? Is the government saying anything? Where has the tainted feed been coming from?
Any scuttlebutt on who has been cheating- you don't leave that much feed lying around for 4 or 5 years...

Has anyone even asked? Do you even care :???:

Or is this just going to be shut up and shirttail :???:
 

Bill

Well-known member
While Canadians were telling Americans from May 2003 to the end of December that if Canada had BSE so did the US what were you doing Oldtimer?

Saying nope it couldn't happen in the US. Guess what it did.

Then you spent about a year deflecting that by saying Canada was the only one that had NATIVE BSE cases and guess what? We found that from July '04 USDA had been covering one up.

Now you and your R-Calf buddies are on a rant that Canada has all these post-feed ban cases and guess what.................? If anything we KNOW your feed-ban has been less effective because you were or are still feeding chickenshit.

Is it because we think we know
more about what's going on in the US than anyone else
? No, there are some very knowledgable producers in the US that aren't afraid to admit what has been going on all along. Too many R-Calf supporters have fallen for what they WANT to believe and have closed their eyes.

It's sad that USDA has dropped the ball so many times over this but Canadians kept telling you they were and in fact a CBC TV crew went down and did a documentary about all the screwups Venneman and Co. were covering up but American producers laughed that one off too. Saying "more hearsay", show us the proof. Well finally Phyllis Fong did.

Do you think the simple answer to your question could just be that no feed ban is perfect and that until non-BSE tested rendered ruminants are totally removed from the feed system in BOTH countries there should be concern. If that was proposed testing for BSE would begin.
 

TimH

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
For all the Canuck Tams and Bills that seem to think they know more about whats happening in the US than anyone else-- you seem to have "~SH~ proof" that the Alabama cow was under 10 years old, that zillions of US cows were mistested-- so you should know all the answers on whats happening at home- eh...

What is coming out to explain all the Canadian POST feedban positives? Is the government saying anything? Where has the tainted feed been coming from?
Any scuttlebutt on who has been cheating- you don't leave that much feed lying around for 4 or 5 years...

Has anyone even asked? Do you even care :???:

Or is this just going to be shut up and shirttail :???:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey, Oldtimer......We are shipping untested beef to Japan........you are not. Would you consider that "shirtailing"???? :lol: :lol:

LONG LIVE R-CALF!!!!!!!!!

"you don't leave that much feed lying around for 4 or 5 years..."

"that much feed"????? But......but.... but....it takes less than 1 gram to "infect" a cow. Just ask flounder. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

:lol:
 

Silver

Well-known member
OT, you are living proof that the old addage is all too true: "sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt".
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
So far- no one has answered my question...Just try to turn it all back on or blame the US or R-CALF again...

You don't know? Don't you want to know? Do you care? Does anyone up there breath fresh air :???:

If I was a Canadian producer and had 3 POST feedbans showing up, I'd be be spitting nails until the government, the feed companies, and the scientists gave me some answers....I'd want to know if someone was cutting corners- or cheating- or where the holes were... You're now talking about cattle in the 2nd or 3rd generation from the initial 1991 cow being infected- But I haven't even seen a Canadian producer question it.....

USDA is sending a fact finding team- so they can help you sweep it all under the rug again and pooh pooh it away.....Good old boy best science Tyson/Cargil etal can buy.......
 

Bill

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
So far- no one has answered my question...Just try to turn it all back on or blame the US or R-CALF again...

You don't know? Don't you want to know? Do you care? Does anyone up there breath fresh air :???:

If I was a Canadian producer and had 3 POST feedbans showing up, I'd be be spitting nails until the government, the feed companies, and the scientists gave me some answers....I'd want to know if someone was cutting corners- or cheating- or where the holes were... You're now talking about cattle in the 2nd or 3rd generation from the initial 1991 cow being infected- But I haven't even seen a Canadian producer question it.....

USDA is sending a fact finding team- so they can help you sweep it all under the rug again and pooh pooh it away.....Good old boy best science Tyson/Cargil etal can buy.......

Can you read?

Do you think the simple answer to your question could just be that no feed ban is perfect and that until non-BSE tested rendered ruminants are totally removed from the feed system in BOTH countries there should be concern. If that was proposed testing for BSE would begin.

Sorry stupid question as you don't really want the answer just to pull the old R-Calf stunt of twisting what we say. How does anyone trace whether someone knowingly or not fed chicken or pig feeed to calves or whether somone pulled the wrong slide in a feed mill and let a 5 gal. pail of product in the wrong mix?

Read what I wrote one more time and this time think about it. Until ALL rendered ruminants are removed from the livestock feed supply there is a risk in both countries. I fail to see where anyone is blaming the US and you're the one who started the finger pointing in this thread.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Do you think the simple answer to your question could just be that no feed ban is perfect

could be :???: Haven't they or can't they find out? Another scientific investigation and policy based on could be's, maybe's, hopefully's :???:

Bill- Wouldn't you like to know? Or are you like the rest of Canada that seems to be like a bunch of alcoholics- all about in the denial stage.....As long as we keep getting pulled up by our bootstraps and handed a quarter for another drink we don't want to admit we have a problem - we don't want to do anything different :roll: ......
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Well, Bill, if you're saying that there is no such thing as a perfect feed ban, you're making a statement calling for closed borders or 100% testing since feed bans are the cornerstones of combating BSE.
 

TimH

Well-known member
Oldtimer,
The results of every investigation are posted on CFIA's website.
I've read most ,if not all, of them. They always cite "contaminated feed" as "the most likely" source. :roll:
The UK expierienced some post feed ban cases(they call them barbs), Canada is finding some post feed ban cases. I would suspect that the US will find some as well.
If the source is,as some claim, "contaminated feed", whether it be leftovers in bins, mis-labled product, or people using the wrong feed, why are we still finding that no herdmates are infected?? Especially when,according to some, it takes such a small amount to transmit the disease.
If some scientist would come out and say that BSE is "definitely caused by contaminated feed each and every time", it would me mere childs play for me and most other BEEF producers on both sides of the border to certify that our herds are BSE free. So far, no scientist that I'm aware of, has had the "parts" to say such a thing. Why not??? Most people already believe it.
Even the DON of the BSE Mafia,Prusiner,(among others) admits that BSE can and does occur spontaneously. What kind of a feed ban or import/export rules can prevent that?

R-Calf really should stop $hitting in their own nest. :)
 

Mike

Well-known member
If some scientist would come out and say that BSE is "definitely caused by contaminated feed each and every time", it would me mere childs play for me and most other BEEF producers on both sides of the border to certify that our herds are BSE free. So far, no scientist that I'm aware of, has had the "parts" to say such a thing.

Tim you will never see a scientist say:"100%", or "Without a Doubt", or "Definitely". They just don't do it.

Heck, google the "theory of gravity". We know it's there, and we know it happens, but scientists are still arguing over it.

Where's your buddy, "Red River" been?
 

Econ101

Well-known member
TimH said:
Oldtimer,
The results of every investigation are posted on CFIA's website.
I've read most ,if not all, of them. They always cite "contaminated feed" as "the most likely" source. :roll:
The UK expierienced some post feed ban cases(they call them barbs), Canada is finding some post feed ban cases. I would suspect that the US will find some as well.
If the source is,as some claim, "contaminated feed", whether it be leftovers in bins, mis-labled product, or people using the wrong feed, why are we still finding that no herdmates are infected?? Especially when,according to some, it takes such a small amount to transmit the disease.
If some scientist would come out and say that BSE is "definitely caused by contaminated feed each and every time", it would me mere childs play for me and most other BEEF producers on both sides of the border to certify that our herds are BSE free. So far, no scientist that I'm aware of, has had the "parts" to say such a thing. Why not??? Most people already believe it.
Even the DON of the BSE Mafia,Prusiner,(among others) admits that BSE can and does occur spontaneously. What kind of a feed ban or import/export rules can prevent that?

R-Calf really should stop $hitting in their own nest. :)


TimH, by continually denigrating rcalf and not taking up their producer concerns, what do you think you are doing for Canadians wanting to market in the U.S.? What do you think the whole blue tounge thing did?
Where do you think the anti-canadian platform came from? Do you think the packer concentration has anything to do with it?

What do you think happened to Canadian producer's credibility when U.S. producers saw the Canadian govt. give a huge subsidy to the companies participating in market frauds in the U.S. only to hide behind our international border? I know that most Canadian producers are in the same boat as U.S. producers when it comes to these political plays but if Canadians want to spend their time denigrating an organization in a foriegn country trying to fight these market abuses, don't you think you are ________ in your own nest?

Do you deny that bse policy has played right in the hands of the packers playing the concentration game? It isn't rcalf that is making these decisions. It is the USDA and Canadian govt.
 

TimH

Well-known member
Mike said:
If some scientist would come out and say that BSE is "definitely caused by contaminated feed each and every time", it would me mere childs play for me and most other BEEF producers on both sides of the border to certify that our herds are BSE free. So far, no scientist that I'm aware of, has had the "parts" to say such a thing.

Tim you will never see a scientist say:"100%", or "Without a Doubt", or "Definitely". They just don't do it.

Heck, google the "theory of gravity". We know it's there, and we know it happens, but scientists are still arguing over it.

Where's your buddy, "Red River" been?

Mike, I realize that no scientist will ever say that. But lets not forget that they ARE saying that BSE can and does occur spontaneously. Does this explain the post feed ban cases??? Good question! It could.It might. :???:
If BSE can be spontaneous, what about vCJD, since it has never been scientificly linked to beef consumption?????

MY BUDDY :???: :???: :???: I thought he was yours!!! :wink:

The Red River flooded a little this spring so maybe he's still waterlogged. :)
 

Econ101

Well-known member
TimH said:
Mike said:
If some scientist would come out and say that BSE is "definitely caused by contaminated feed each and every time", it would me mere childs play for me and most other BEEF producers on both sides of the border to certify that our herds are BSE free. So far, no scientist that I'm aware of, has had the "parts" to say such a thing.

Tim you will never see a scientist say:"100%", or "Without a Doubt", or "Definitely". They just don't do it.

Heck, google the "theory of gravity". We know it's there, and we know it happens, but scientists are still arguing over it.

Where's your buddy, "Red River" been?

Mike, I realize that no scientist will ever say that. But lets not forget that they ARE saying that BSE can and does occur spontaneously. Does this explain the post feed ban cases??? Good question! It could.It might. :???:
If BSE can be spontaneous, what about vCJD, since it has never been scientificly linked to beef consumption?????

MY BUDDY :???: :???: :???: I thought he was yours!!! :wink:

The Red River flooded a little this spring so maybe he's still waterlogged. :)

The Alabama cow that was post feed ban was not post poultry feed loophole. It is still there.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
TimH said:
Oldtimer,
The results of every investigation are posted on CFIA's website.
I've read most ,if not all, of them. They always cite "contaminated feed" as "the most likely" source. :roll:
The UK expierienced some post feed ban cases(they call them barbs), Canada is finding some post feed ban cases. I would suspect that the US will find some as well.
If the source is,as some claim, "contaminated feed", whether it be leftovers in bins, mis-labled product, or people using the wrong feed, why are we still finding that no herdmates are infected?? Especially when,according to some, it takes such a small amount to transmit the disease.
If some scientist would come out and say that BSE is "definitely caused by contaminated feed each and every time", it would me mere childs play for me and most other BEEF producers on both sides of the border to certify that our herds are BSE free. So far, no scientist that I'm aware of, has had the "parts" to say such a thing. Why not??? Most people already believe it.
Even the DON of the BSE Mafia,Prusiner,(among others) admits that BSE can and does occur spontaneously. What kind of a feed ban or import/export rules can prevent that?

R-Calf really should stop $hitting in their own nest. :)

TimH- Yep its all R-CALF's fault again- everything that happens in Canada is because of R-CALF...Canucks are more paranoid than a bunch of stoners- Look out there's an R-CALF Narc behind that next tree :wink: :lol: :lol:

This left over contaminated feed brings up another question-- If you have that much left over feed lying around in bins thruout the country 3 or 4 years after the feedban, How much tainted feed did you have and feed before the feedban :???: How extensive was the spread of this feed thru the country? Has any agency looked into this really, without just a economic science influenced SWAG estimate?
 

TimH

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
TimH said:
Oldtimer,
The results of every investigation are posted on CFIA's website.
I've read most ,if not all, of them. They always cite "contaminated feed" as "the most likely" source. :roll:
The UK expierienced some post feed ban cases(they call them barbs), Canada is finding some post feed ban cases. I would suspect that the US will find some as well.
If the source is,as some claim, "contaminated feed", whether it be leftovers in bins, mis-labled product, or people using the wrong feed, why are we still finding that no herdmates are infected?? Especially when,according to some, it takes such a small amount to transmit the disease.
If some scientist would come out and say that BSE is "definitely caused by contaminated feed each and every time", it would me mere childs play for me and most other BEEF producers on both sides of the border to certify that our herds are BSE free. So far, no scientist that I'm aware of, has had the "parts" to say such a thing. Why not??? Most people already believe it.
Even the DON of the BSE Mafia,Prusiner,(among others) admits that BSE can and does occur spontaneously. What kind of a feed ban or import/export rules can prevent that?

R-Calf really should stop $hitting in their own nest. :)

TimH- Yep its all R-CALF's fault again- everything that happens in Canada is because of R-CALF...Canucks are more paranoid than a bunch of stoners- Look out there's an R-CALF Narc behind that next tree :wink: :lol: :lol:

This left over contaminated feed brings up another question-- If you have that much left over feed lying around in bins thruout the country 3 or 4 years after the feedban, How much tainted feed did you have and feed before the feedban :???: How extensive was the spread of this feed thru the country? Has any agency looked into this really, without just a economic science influenced SWAG estimate?

I never said it was all R-calf's fault, OT. But their incessant mewing about Canada's post feed ban cases will come back to haunt them if and when the USA finds a post feed ban case or two. Think about it.It already happened with the pre-ban cases.
As far as the "leftover contaminated feed" goes, you tell me how much there is in the US and I'll tell you how much there is here. :roll: I do know that we aren't feeding chicken litter though. :wink:

Oh ya. And just in case you forgot, a group of CDN cattle producers are sueing the Federal Govt. , Feed-Rite and Ridley Inc. over BSE/contaminated feed etc. I wish them luck. So much for your "nobody even cares" observation. :wink:
 

S.S.A.P.

Well-known member
Well, I guess we Canadians should have incinerated every cow, feed mill, freight box, feed bin, trough, shovel, bunk, bucket and pail ... everything that was ever in contact with prepared feed prior to 1997. That minute amount that MAY be the source may even be on (y)our feed grounds. Heck - OT could have been spreading it going from one place to another brand inspecting.

OT, for as parnoid as you are, I don't understand how you can even still be raising cattle (producing beef).

Serious question: Who/What agency(ies) would you like to look after the investigations - either side of the 49th?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
S.S.A.P. said:
Well, I guess we Canadians should have incinerated every cow, feed mill, freight box, feed bin, trough, shovel, bunk, bucket and pail ... everything that was ever in contact with prepared feed prior to 1997. That minute amount that MAY be the source may even be on (y)our feed grounds. Heck - OT could have been spreading it going from one place to another brand inspecting.

Look out S.S.A.P I might be hiding behind that tree :lol: :lol: Sheeesh- even Freud would be scared to go north of the border :roll: ...

OT, for as parnoid as you are, I don't understand how you can even still be raising cattle (producing beef).


Serious question: Who/What agency(ies) would you like to look after the investigations - either side of the 49th?

How about the seven independent scientists that during their studies with MacDonalds came out and said there are huge holes in the feedban and they need to be closed- they don't seem to have yet been bought out by Tyson/Cargil....Or Phyllis Fong and some of her OIG people- she ends up uprooting, overturning, or cleaning up every mess the USDA makes down here...And if there is ANY hint toward a purposely or knowingly violating the ban- the FBI and/or the Mounties should be brought in...

The sad part is that many of these holes and problems could have been aired long ago if US ranchers and producers would have been allowed to challenge the USDA authority and examine the evidence...
 

Tam

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Do you think the simple answer to your question could just be that no feed ban is perfect

could be :???: Haven't they or can't they find out? Another scientific investigation and policy based on could be's, maybe's, hopefully's :???:

Bill- Wouldn't you like to know? Or are you like the rest of Canada that seems to be like a bunch of alcoholics- all about in the denial stage.....As long as we keep getting pulled up by our bootstraps and handed a quarter for another drink we don't want to admit we have a problem - we don't want to do anything different :roll: ......

Oldtimer why are you so worried about our system? why don't you worry about the unanswered questions about the TEXAS and ALABAMA COWS? :roll: We know more about our cases than you will EVER KNOW about yours. This is just another case of pointing fingers at Canada so nobody notices you are letting the US government call off ANOTHER investigation without definitive answers to the important questions that R-CALF demanded BSE affect countries have before being allowed to EXPORT again. When you can answer these same question about the US cases then come back and demand answer but until then WORRY ABOUT YOUR SYSTEM AS YOU ARE EXPORTING CATTLE AND BEEF TO CANADA AS WE SPEAK.
 

HAY MAKER

Well-known member
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
Do you think the simple answer to your question could just be that no feed ban is perfect

could be :???: Haven't they or can't they find out? Another scientific investigation and policy based on could be's, maybe's, hopefully's :???:

Bill- Wouldn't you like to know? Or are you like the rest of Canada that seems to be like a bunch of alcoholics- all about in the denial stage.....As long as we keep getting pulled up by our bootstraps and handed a quarter for another drink we don't want to admit we have a problem - we don't want to do anything different :roll: ......

Oldtimer why are you so worried about our system? why don't you worry about the unanswered questions about the TEXAS and ALABAMA COWS? :roll: We know more about our cases than you will EVER KNOW about yours. This is just another case of pointing fingers at Canada so nobody notices you are letting the US government call off ANOTHER investigation without definitive answers to the important questions that R-CALF demanded BSE affect countries have before being allowed to EXPORT again. When you can answer these same question about the US cases then come back and demand answer but until then WORRY ABOUT YOUR SYSTEM AS
YOU ARE EXPORTING CATTLE AND BEEF TO CANADA AS WE SPEAK.

Im curious Miss Tam,this beef we are exporting to Canada,how is it being labeled,since canada has a M COOL law.............good luck
PS You aint sticking that maple leaf label on it are you :D
 
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