• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Question for Whitewing

A

Anonymous

Guest
The Brits have identified the fella that's been doing the head chopping- and he is a British citizen... If they can't get to him physically to capture him - should they give him a chance to surrender and if he doesn't- and keeps on chopping off heads- should Cameron after consulting with his advisors drone his arse with a missile if the opportunity arises?



How about then if the next throat cutter is identified as an American citizen- bred and born? And the US intelligence/defense dept make a positive ID of him but they can't physically capture him- and he refuses to surrender or turn himself in and keeps on chopping off American and Allies heads- should Obama after consulting with his advisors drone his arse with a missile if the opportunity arises ?
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
The Brits have identified the fella that's been doing the head chopping- and he is a British citizen... If they can't get to him physically to capture him - should they give him a chance to surrender and if he doesn't- and keeps on chopping off heads- should Cameron after consulting with his advisors drone his arse with a missile if the opportunity arises?



How about then if the next throat cutter is identified as an American citizen- bred and born? And the US intelligence/defense dept make a positive ID of him but they can't physically capture him- and he refuses to surrender or turn himself in and keeps on chopping off American and Allies heads- should Obama after consulting with his advisors drone his arse with a missile if the opportunity arises ?


Simple answers.

The Brits can do as they please. You may not be aware of this, but we fought a war (actually more than one) against the Brits to make our own rules. The list of those rules for Americans is contained in that precious Constitution you once admired. And no man, not even King Obama is above the law according to that list of rules. I know you know that because you probably said it about a hundred times yourself when discussing King George Bush.

If with the second case you're trying to draw parallels between the actual extra-judicial killing of an American citizen ordered by President Obama, a man who swore to uphold that list of rules for Americans known as the US Constitution, then you're making an apples and oranges comparison. I suggest you study the case to which I'm referring before trying to draw such sweeping parallels.

As for your hypothetical about the American citizen, I would have no problem with President Obama, a man who swore to uphold that list of rules for Americans known as the US Constitution, predator droning his ass with hell fire missles AFTER the US government presented its evidence to the proper courts in the US where said American citizen was afforded the same benefits every American citizen is obligated to be afforded by the US government regardless of where said US citizen is located according to that list of rules for Americans known as the US Constitution. If the proper US court charges the American citizen with murder and he cannot possibly be captured without risking the lives of other American citizens, or if he's an immediate threat to other Americans, then he can be dealt with as President Obama, a man who swore to uphold that list of rules for American citizens known as the US Consitution, sees fit.

Further to your general hypothetical, any American citizen actively engaged in combat against American forces can be killed without any of the preceeding steps. I do believe that's been long established.

And finally, your exercise is a complete failure in what you're trying to prove because, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Mike said:
To me, it depends on who they're getting rid of..........

If it was OT, I'd say fire away!!!!!!!

And THAT is exactly why no man should be above the US Constitution.

When any American citizen is granted the power to take the life of another American citizen without the protections afforded EVERY American citizen by the US Constitution, then we are no longer the country our founders founded.

It's a shame OT is too drunk or too stupid, or both, to realize that.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Interestingly today in the hearings and some of the questioning they brought up the same general principle I brought up before with law enforcement.... The ability to go across multi jurisdiction (which they said included countries) borders when in hot pursuit-- and the issue of the right to use deadly/whatever force to prevent the escape of a person who officers believe has committed a crime involving the use or threatened use of deadly force, is using a dangerous weapon in attempting to escape or (in the situation of our head whacker) otherwise indicates that the person is likely to endanger seriously human life or to inflict serious bodily injury unless apprehended without delay...

There was broad agreement by members from both parties that these old Common Law rules still existed and could/should be followed...
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Interestingly today in the hearings and some of the questioning they brought up the same general principle I brought up before with law enforcement.... The ability to go across multi jurisdiction (which they said included countries) borders when in hot pursuit-- and the issue of the right to use deadly/whatever force to prevent the escape of a person who officers believe has committed a crime involving the use or threatened use of deadly force, is using a dangerous weapon in attempting to escape or (in the situation of our head whacker) otherwise indicates that the person is likely to endanger seriously human life or to inflict serious bodily injury unless apprehended without delay...

There was broad agreement by members from both parties that these old Common Law rules still existed and could/should be followed...

That's all fine and dandy except that the circumstances you laid out originally had nothing to do with hot pursuit. You described a scenario where evidence (like a film) was being anayzed and a conclusion was being reached about someone's identity.

If there's time to do that, there's time to afford any and every American citizen their rights as laid out in the Constitution of the United States.

OT, how do you think the drone operator knew he was firing on Anwar al-Awlaki? I can tell you. He knew because we knew in advance via informants to the Yemeni government where he'd be. And the significance of that? The significance is that many believe there was no attempt at all made to capture him. He was simply deemed dangerous and executed.

I'm not defending him, what he stood for, or what he might have been planning. But according to laws of the United States, he was every bit as much an American as you or I.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Interestingly today in the hearings and some of the questioning they brought up the same general principle I brought up before with law enforcement.... The ability to go across multi jurisdiction (which they said included countries) borders when in hot pursuit-- and the issue of the right to use deadly/whatever force to prevent the escape of a person who officers believe has committed a crime involving the use or threatened use of deadly force, is using a dangerous weapon in attempting to escape or (in the situation of our head whacker) otherwise indicates that the person is likely to endanger seriously human life or to inflict serious bodily injury unless apprehended without delay...

There was broad agreement by members from both parties that these old Common Law rules still existed and could/should be followed...

That's all fine and dandy except that the circumstances you laid out originally had nothing to do with hot pursuit. You described a scenario where evidence (like a film) was being anayzed and a conclusion was being reached about someone's identity.

If there's time to do that, there's time to afford any and every American citizen their rights as laid out in the Constitution of the United States.

OT, how do you think the drone operator knew he was firing on Anwar al-Awlaki? I can tell you. He knew because we knew in advance via informants to the Yemeni government where he'd be. And the significance of that? The significance is that many believe there was no attempt at all made to capture him. He was simply deemed dangerous and executed.

I'm not defending him, what he stood for, or what he might have been planning. But according to laws of the United States, he was every bit as much an American as you or I.

Big talk for someone that is sitting on the sidelines... Next time You volunteer your butt to be one of the Agents that go into the middle of Libya, Syria, Iran or any of those other countries that hate us to arrest them...

If they don't surrender--why risk American Agents when we can take them out safely...
 

hopalong

Well-known member
When is the last time YOU offered your vast KNOWLEDGE of war time situations to dissolve any conflict??????
the last time you ever saw conflict is when Miss Patsy accused Otis the drunk of patting her behind, right after you DID :wink: :wink:
 

Mike

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Interestingly today in the hearings and some of the questioning they brought up the same general principle I brought up before with law enforcement.... The ability to go across multi jurisdiction (which they said included countries) borders when in hot pursuit-- and the issue of the right to use deadly/whatever force to prevent the escape of a person who officers believe has committed a crime involving the use or threatened use of deadly force, is using a dangerous weapon in attempting to escape or (in the situation of our head whacker) otherwise indicates that the person is likely to endanger seriously human life or to inflict serious bodily injury unless apprehended without delay...

There was broad agreement by members from both parties that these old Common Law rules still existed and could/should be followed...

That's all fine and dandy except that the circumstances you laid out originally had nothing to do with hot pursuit. You described a scenario where evidence (like a film) was being anayzed and a conclusion was being reached about someone's identity.

If there's time to do that, there's time to afford any and every American citizen their rights as laid out in the Constitution of the United States.

OT, how do you think the drone operator knew he was firing on Anwar al-Awlaki? I can tell you. He knew because we knew in advance via informants to the Yemeni government where he'd be. And the significance of that? The significance is that many believe there was no attempt at all made to capture him. He was simply deemed dangerous and executed.

I'm not defending him, what he stood for, or what he might have been planning. But according to laws of the United States, he was every bit as much an American as you or I.

Big talk for someone that is sitting on the sidelines... Next time You volunteer your butt to be one of the Agents that go into the middle of Libya, Syria, Iran or any of those other countries that hate us to arrest them...

If they don't surrender--why risk American Agents when we can take them out safely...

Is that the best comeback you have? :roll:

You should have learned by now that there is a time to keep your mouth shut. :roll:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Big talk for someone that is sitting on the sidelines... Next time You volunteer your butt to be one of the Agents that go into the middle of Libya, Syria, Iran or any of those other countries that hate us to arrest them...

If they don't surrender--why risk American Agents when we can take them out safely...

:lol: You really are stupid, aren't you.

OT, the drone operator was probably seated in front of a computer in Daytona, Florida and when I talked about having him arrested, I was talking about the Yemeni goverment NOT sending American forces into harm's way.

This may come as a shock to you, but virtually all the al Queda cockroaches who scattered and were later arrested in other countries throughout the muslim world, were apprehended by security forces of those same countries....NOT by Americans. We were called in to haul their sorry asses off to an aircraft carrier or other country to have hot pokers shoved up their asses.

Understand?
 

Mike

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Big talk for someone that is sitting on the sidelines... Next time You volunteer your butt to be one of the Agents that go into the middle of Libya, Syria, Iran or any of those other countries that hate us to arrest them...

If they don't surrender--why risk American Agents when we can take them out safely...

:lol: You really are stupid, aren't you.

OT, the drone operator was probably seated in front of a computer in Daytona, Florida and when I talked about having him arrested, I was talking about the Yemeni goverment NOT sending American forces into harm's way.

This may come as a shock to you, but virtually all the al Queda cockroaches who scattered and were later arrested in other countries throughout the muslim world, were apprehended by security forces of those same countries....NOT by Americans. We were called in to haul their sorry asses off to an aircraft carrier or other country to have hot pokers shoved up their asses.

Understand?

He clearly has no concept that, among other things, the drone operator doesn't know for sure who the target is. For all the operator knows, the target may be someone wearing look-a-like clothes that had been described to him. :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Big talk for someone that is sitting on the sidelines... Next time You volunteer your butt to be one of the Agents that go into the middle of Libya, Syria, Iran or any of those other countries that hate us to arrest them...

If they don't surrender--why risk American Agents when we can take them out safely...

:lol: You really are stupid, aren't you.

OT, the drone operator was probably seated in front of a computer in Daytona, Florida and when I talked about having him arrested, I was talking about the Yemeni goverment NOT sending American forces into harm's way.

This may come as a shock to you, but virtually all the al Queda cockroaches who scattered and were later arrested in other countries throughout the muslim world, were apprehended by security forces of those same countries....NOT by Americans. We were called in to haul their sorry asses off to an aircraft carrier or other country to have hot pokers shoved up their asses.

Understand?

Yeah- I get you... Just like the Pakistani's arrested Osama during all the time he was in Pakistan :shock: :roll: :wink:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Mike said:
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Big talk for someone that is sitting on the sidelines... Next time You volunteer your butt to be one of the Agents that go into the middle of Libya, Syria, Iran or any of those other countries that hate us to arrest them...

If they don't surrender--why risk American Agents when we can take them out safely...

:lol: You really are stupid, aren't you.

OT, the drone operator was probably seated in front of a computer in Daytona, Florida and when I talked about having him arrested, I was talking about the Yemeni goverment NOT sending American forces into harm's way.

This may come as a shock to you, but virtually all the al Queda cockroaches who scattered and were later arrested in other countries throughout the muslim world, were apprehended by security forces of those same countries....NOT by Americans. We were called in to haul their sorry asses off to an aircraft carrier or other country to have hot pokers shoved up their asses.

Understand?

He clearly has no concept that, among other things, the drone operator doesn't know for sure who the target is. For all the operator knows, the target may be someone wearing look-a-like clothes that had been described to him. :roll:

My dad used to say, you can't fix stupid.

I had no idea he knew OT.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
Oldtimer said:
Big talk for someone that is sitting on the sidelines... Next time You volunteer your butt to be one of the Agents that go into the middle of Libya, Syria, Iran or any of those other countries that hate us to arrest them...

If they don't surrender--why risk American Agents when we can take them out safely...

:lol: You really are stupid, aren't you.

OT, the drone operator was probably seated in front of a computer in Daytona, Florida and when I talked about having him arrested, I was talking about the Yemeni goverment NOT sending American forces into harm's way.

This may come as a shock to you, but virtually all the al Queda cockroaches who scattered and were later arrested in other countries throughout the muslim world, were apprehended by security forces of those same countries....NOT by Americans. We were called in to haul their sorry asses off to an aircraft carrier or other country to have hot pokers shoved up their asses.

Understand?

Yeah- I get you... Just like the Pakistani's arrested Osama during all the time he was in Pakistan :shock: :roll: :wink:

What part of virtually all don't you understand, numbnut? Have you seen any evidence that the Pakistanis were actually aware that bin Laden was living in that house? And just in case they did know, we wisely didn't tip them off about the raid for fear that someone in that goverment would rat us out....sort of like you ratting on Mike. But that's another story.

As I mentioned last night, the US found evidence that the family living in the floors below bin Laden didn't know who was living on the top floor. That's the kind of secrecy that surrounded him. Why? Because since shortly after 9-11 we had been hunting his sorry ass non-stop and never quit until we got him.

And if you think I was blowing hot air about the Pakistanis rounding up some of the highest of al Queda targets possible, then you're uniformed. They may not have liked helping us, but help us they did.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Ramzi Yousef; born May 20, 1967) was one of the main perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and a co-conspirator in the Bojinka plot. In 1995, he was arrested at a guest house in Islamabad, Pakistan, by the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and U.S. Diplomatic Security Service, then extradited to the United States.
150px-Ramzi_Yousef.gif


Khalid Sheikh Mohammed; In 2003 Mohammed was captured in hiding in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, by a combined force of members of the CIA and the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency of Pakistan, and transferred to U.S. CIA custody. In 2006 he was transferred to military custody and Guantanamo Bay detention camp.
230px-Sheikh_july2009.jpg



Ramzi bin al-Shibh; In the mid-1990s, bin al-Shibh moved as a student to Hamburg, Germany, where he allegedly became close friends with Mohamed Atta, Ziad Jarrah and Marwan al-Shehhi. Together, they are suspected of forming the Hamburg cell and becoming central perpetrators of the September 11 attacks. Bin al-Shibh was captured in Pakistan on September 11, 2002, after a gun battle in Karachi with the Pakistani ISI and the CIA's Special Activities Division. On September 14, 2002 he was transferred to the United States.
150px-Ramzibinalshibh.jpg



Walid Muhammad Salih bin Roshayed bin Attash; American prosecutors at the Guantanamo military commissions allege that he helped in the preparation of the 1998 East Africa Embassy bombings and the USS Cole bombing[8] and acted as a bodyguard to Osama bin Laden,[9] gaining himself the reputation of an "errand boy".[10] He is formally charged with selecting and helping to train several of the hijackers of the September 11 attacks. Bin Attash was captured by Pakistani authorities in Karachi on April 27, 2003

BinAttash.jpg


MOHAMMED AL-QAHTANI; is a Saudi citizen who has been detained as an enemy combatant since June 2002 in the United States's Guantanamo Bay detention camps in Cuba. Qahtani allegedly tried to enter the United States to take part in the September 11 attacks as the 20th hijacker. He was refused entry due to suspicions that he was trying to immigrate. Captured by Pakistani forces on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border in December 2001.
150px-Mohammed_al_Quahtani.jpg

I think you get the picture fatman. Americans don't just go walking around in these countries unnoticed. About the only way to develop reliable information on someone's whereabouts is through surveillence by the host country's secret services.

The drone operator ordered to fire the mssile that took out Anwar al-Awlaki didn't just get lucky. We knew who we were killing because we had reliable information on his whereabouts. Again, the government story that he somehow couldn't be captured is about as reliable as the government tale that David Koresh couldn't be arrested either. :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Since most of that country ISIS is operating in has no organized government to go ask the guy to put the cuffs on- and after we ask him to surrender and he doesn't --- how many should we let them cut the heads off of and video- before we look at droning :???: 2- 10 - dozens :???:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Since most of that country ISIS is operating in has no organized government to go ask the guy to put the cuffs on- and after we ask him to surrender and he doesn't --- how many should we let them cut the heads off of and video- before we look at droning :???: 2- 10 - dozens :???:

Not only have I already answered your question, you're arguing a point I didn't try to make. Are you usually this drunk this early?
 

Latest posts

Top