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Questions about feeder cattle

leanin' H

Well-known member
I and my lovely wife attended the sale yesterday in Salina, Utah. We took 3 head of odds and ends that we didnt feel like feeding all winter. One good angus steer with no problems weighed 689 pounds and brought $1.06, a heifer just like him weighed 605 and brought $1.04 while a light angus steer weighed 480 and brought $1.10. We unloaded at a little after 10, the sale started at 11 and we watched our calves sell at 6:30 pm. I felt like we lost about 10 to 15 cents from the prices earlier in the sale. Such is life.

Now here is what I need you all with bigger brains to explain to me...... Great looking, preconditioned, angus and angus cross calves weighing from 600 to 750 brought anywhere from $1.05 to $1.19 over the sale. And there were good numbers, not just a few calves. Some were in lots of 25-30. But what I can't believe was 350 pound steer calves going for $1.40 to $1.66 a pound! :shock: Some 300 weights almost topped $600 while great 700 weights brought $700. With corn higher I am baffled why those light calves were so high. In my mind, a calf closer to finish weight should be worth more than one that will take longer to finish. So could ya'll tell me why we all shouldnt be aiming for lighter weaning weights and more 350 pound calves? :???: After the prices i saw yesterday I plan to rustle a bunch of 4 month old calves next spring and retire to a warm island.
 

BRG

Well-known member
Those light weight calves will most likely go to wheat fields in OK or grass somewhere and be grown out before heading back into the feedlot at 800lbs or higher. That is a bit extreme for those $1.66 calves those. But you look out in those far out months, the live cattle market is pushing $1.10 which is higher than the close up months.

On another note, I have a couple bull customers who buy alot of bulls every year whose address is Salina, UT. One of there wives is the postmaster at Gunnison. You should stop in and say hi and have a look at our bulls for me.
 

per

Well-known member
Might have something to do with numbers and timing of finished product.

More On Cattle Numbers, Beef Production & The Future Of The Beef Industry
11/29/2010 11:28AM

A couple of weeks ago I wrote an article talking about the ability of the beef industry to continue current levels of beef production without rebuilding the herd. There are, of course, many factors that affect the situation and this article provides a bit more discussion of some of the many factors involved. It has been appropriately and correctly noted that some of the superlatives used by myself and other, such as the fact that the current beef cow herd is the smallest since 1963 are relevant only in a broad historical context.

Many things have changed and the industry including the fact that the industry is much more efficient and cattle are bigger now, resulting in significantly more pounds of beef produced per cow. Thus, it is certainly the case that we do not need to return to any particular herd inventory level compared to history. However, the fact is that we cannot continue to increase or even maintain beef production if the cow herd continues to shrink. I suspect that carcass weights will show little or no upward trend in the next decade compared to the last twenty years. Thus much of the compensation for a declining inventory that was offset by increasing carcass weights in the past will not be available going forward.

A more relevant time period is the last twenty years. The beef cow herd in 2010 was about one million head smaller at 31.4 million head than it was in 1990 (32.5 million head). In the intervening years the herd increased to a cyclical peak of 35.2 million head in 1996 to an apparent cyclical low of 32.9 million head in 2004 before the market shocks since 2007 pushed the herd down to current levels. Beef production in 2010 is projected at 26.03 billion pounds, 15 percent higher than in 1990 (which had a larger beef cow herd), about equal to the level in 1996 at the recent cyclical peak in cattle numbers and within 3 percent of the all time annual beef production record of 26.8 billion pounds in 2000.

Beef and cattle trade plays a role in this as well. However, the relative importance of beef and cattle trade, in terms of overall production levels, has not changed much in the past twenty years. Net beef imports have accounted for roughly 4 percent of total beef production since 1990 and have, in fact, been smaller at roughly two percent of total annual production in the last three years. Net live cattle imports have averaged less than six percent of total slaughter since 1990 and will be slightly higher than that in 2010. While beef and cattle continue to grow in importance in terms of industry value, it does not explain our ability to maintain beef production in the face of declining U.S. cattle inventories.

The fact is that we have culled an average of over 11 percent of the beef cow herd each of the past three years. Beef cow slaughter as a percent of the beef cow inventory has averaged 9.3 percent since 1990 and has only been higher than 11 percent once before since 1990, in 1996. Measured another way, beef cow slaughter has represented more than 10 percent of total cattle slaughter each of the past three years. Again, in the past twenty years, beef cow slaughter has averaged 9.2 percent of total slaughter and the only other time that beef cow slaughter was more than 10 percent of total cattle slaughter was in 1996. Another rough measure of slaughter intensity of the beef industry is that total slaughter will represent over 94 percent of the 2010 calf crop. This value has averaged 88.3 percent since 1990 and the estimate for 2010 is the highest level over the twenty year period.

The bottom line is that it will not be possible to maintain beef production in coming years if we do not rebuild the cow herd and it is also true that we will not be able to rebuild the cow herd without reducing slaughter and beef production for at least a two to three year period. I believe that prices are approaching levels that will entice cow-calf producers into some level of herd expansion in the next couple of years. Smaller beef production will support higher beef and cattle prices. Consumers, who have for the most part not seen any impacts of this situation thus far, will experience higher beef prices in the coming years and this will provide a critical test of beef demand to see how consumers react to generally higher beef prices.

Source: Derrell S. Peel, Oklahoma State University Extension Livestock Marketing Specialist
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
BRG said:
Those light weight calves will most likely go to wheat fields in OK or grass somewhere and be grown out before heading back into the feedlot at 800lbs or higher. That is a bit extreme for those $1.66 calves those. But you look out in those far out months, the live cattle market is pushing $1.10 which is higher than the close up months.

On another note, I have a couple bull customers who buy alot of bulls every year whose address is Salina, UT. One of there wives is the postmaster at Gunnison. You should stop in and say hi and have a look at our bulls for me.

On Tuesday 427 lb calves brought $163.00 or just under $700 ($696)-- at Miles City-- as more and more folks look for grassers/stockers-- calves they can winter cheaply and run on grass and market as yearlings...
Seems to be more and more the trend locally with the "grassfed beef" "all natural" trend toward grass fattened beef- and the aging rancher/land owner that doesn't want to spend the time/energy involved with calving issues to fill the grass/land units they have....
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
Don't worry about the whys H, just get some grass tied up and buy cows. :wink:

An old mentor/cattle buyer friend I had (Slim Dorin passed on over 10 years back) told me once that if the market was high and you needed grass cattle, to buy light s/c and pay what you had to on the market. His theory was that they didn't cost a lot per head and would still be light yearlings that normally command a higher price when they are sold. They do take some health management at first but they don't eat much. I found when we used to background and summer grass bought calves that the light ones (250 to 300 lbs) where the only class of cattle that would nearly triple their weight in ten months.
Since the early eighties it has gotten difficult to find 2 or 300 calves of that weight in our area. The guys that were raising them either improved things at home or went broke.

Another thing we found was that the older calves did better than younger ones of the same weight as their systems were already accustomed to living on forage. Many times we bought a pair that were two months in age difference. The younger calf was nearly always 75 to 100 lbs lighter the next fall. If we weren't so far from the market I would still be bringing these little darlings home for Debbie to doctor. :D

Kato and her husband background a lot of these light calves and sound like they have done alright as they are still in the business. :wink:

In answer to your original question, the futures past June supposedly are a lot better than when these heavier calves would be ready to harvest.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
gcreekrch said:
In answer to your original question, the futures past June supposedly are a lot better than when these heavier calves would be ready to harvest.

I'm not a futures/fake prices board follower- probably know more about roulette/craps (almost same game as commodity trading :wink: ) - and that is what all the buyers tell me-- they are paying the prices based on the "come"....
 

Kato

Well-known member
We've backgrounded light calves for years, that's true. It's not for the faint of heart though. They are very unforgiving if management isn't up to snuff. For instance, you can't look at one and think "He's looking a little poorly, maybe tomorrow we should think about treating him." By tomorrow, it's probably too late. You've got to be on your toes.

However, a 350 pound calf will usually go for about the same price per pound as a 400 to 425 pound calf. The cost of putting that extra 75 pounds on the little calf is far less than the cost of buying it. We find these little guys do just fine as long as they're living with others of their own size.

And a 4 1/2 cc shot of Draxxin costs a lot less than a 10cc shot does. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Angus 62

Well-known member
As to H's original question the light calves can put on 400 plus pounds of forage gain in the 40-50 cent per pound of gain range. The heavier calves will likely spend the rest of their life in a lot where cost of gain can run 80 cents a pound and more.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
Well now my question is why? Why not put the 700 pound calves on grass at 40 cents per pound of gain until they approach 1100 or so? Then yard them for 45 days on corn for marbling and process them. If a 350 pound calf can gain on winter wheat or grass, a 700 pound calf should too. Or a 900 pound calf.
 

BRG

Well-known member
They do if they buy them in the spring. But if they buy them in the fall, they are ussually a bit fleshy and will loose weight on grass for the first 30 days. Also if you have a 700 lbs calf in the fall, it will weigh quite a bit more than that come grass time.

When they take them off grass, to hit the best market, they should weigh under 900 lbs. The guy who buys them and puts them in the lot needs to time and room to make a $ as well.

Another reason is they can run quite a few more light calves on wheat fields, and when it is time for them to go to market, those light calves will be hitting a better market than the 700 calves of today.
 

Angus 62

Well-known member
H, it is a long time till grass. Part of a stocker program is wintering these calves cheaply at say a pound or so of gain a day. That is tough to do with a heavier calf as he might actually go backwards weight wise as that weight of calf this time of year is probably carrying some extra flesh. Plus the economics of wintering one 700 pound calf compared to say two 350 pounders.

Having said that there does seem to be heavier calves then in the past going to grass if they are thin fleshed enough. A lot of times they will pull them earlier in the summer.

For the cow-calf guy he sold 300 pounds of calf for $100 compared to the lighter calves. If the light calf and the 7 weight were the same age and result of the same management level then the 7 weight was obviously better. But if the lighter calves came from a herd that calved latter with a minimum of inputs then the heavier calf had to have the extra weight put on for 33 cents a pound. It doesn't take much extra hay and trips thru a calving barn to eat up that extra $100. That is the reason there are so many ranchers moving calving dates back and pasture calving.
 

Frank in West Dakota

Well-known member
leanin' H said:
Well now my question is why? Why not put the 700 pound calves on grass at 40 cents per pound of gain until they approach 1100 or so? Then yard them for 45 days on corn for marbling and process them. If a 350 pound calf can gain on winter wheat or grass, a 700 pound calf should too. Or a 900 pound calf.

BRG you did a great job of explainin' things, but I think the best education for H would be: Do It! Go buy some 7 weights and grass 'em. And then finish 'em on corn!
 

katrina

Well-known member
Good question and I'm glad to see that we all gave some good advice and not one hateful post....... My two cents is that 700 pound calves are ready to feed and to run them over doesn't make cents. Them fly weights will gain a bunch( as long as they arn't striped) Long story..... :wink: The bottom line is how you can make the most money in less time and less money. And we all have our own ways to do it.. :D
 

cutterone

Well-known member
Question
I heard that winter grasing on wheat can reduce the crop yield by as much as 20% and at current prices is that justified?
It's also my understanding that marbling starts at puberty (around weaning age) and that finishing out with corn for 30-45 days would only put on surface fat moreso than marble.
 

nortexsook

Well-known member
No definate answer on reducing yields. Most cattle around here must be off by March 1 at latest if owner is planning on harvesting wheat. Harvest starts May 20ish here.

Lots of wheat growers around here not allowing grazing for the reason you cited. At $8 wheat any reduction hurts.

I can only imagine where the prices on calves/yearlings would be if Wheat and Corn were at historic levels. They would probably be around $2!
 

okfarmer

Well-known member
I think a lot of farmers around here use stocker calves as a hedge on wheat. No one can predict if the price will actually be there when you have the grain in the truck, or wether you will or won't get the right weather at the right time- too little rain, too much rain, hail, wind and maybe just enough to produce poorly but not enough to collect insurance. If the price bottoms out for what ever reason commodities are manipulated for at any given time or if nature doesn't cooperate, they haven't lost everything. So, I don't see stockers stoping completely.

We stopped farming wheat for almost a decade because we could be so much more successful grazing out rye (due to our soil type/pH and more fall forage). This year, we are about 40% wheat due to hopes that the price will hold. But we are still grazing it.
 

Doug Thorson

Well-known member
An oldtimer from around here had a wheat farm in Texas and he always said if you broke even on wheat the calves would be the profit. Maybe the tide has turned and you break even on the calves and the wheat is the profit, even on 20% less yields.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
Thanks to all of ya for the knowledge that comes from experience. We have always been a cow/calf outfit until my cousin bought the ranch. He backgrounds his calves until late January/ early Feb and then sells them. I keep all my weaned calves. They come home for the winter where they just get oat hay and alfalfa. Come spring they all go out on a meadow. They stay there till they approach finish weight. I bring them home and they get grain/hay for 45 days prior to processing. Marbling comes out perfect on angus cross calves with very little or no waste. But back to the questions..... I see going with lighter calves if they spend the winter on grass or crops. I still can't see buying them over heavier calves if they will be yarded. But that's just me. Thanks again! You are never too old to learn, right? :D This country I live in isnt too condusive for raising crops and therefore all of the feedyards are closer to the production areas. The majority of Utah's calves head back toward ya'll to be fed. And having never witnessed it firsthand, I don't know much. But that is true with lots of things in my world.
 

Doug Thorson

Well-known member
The weight has to fit their outcome, 700 now would be 850 in the spring where 400 now becomes 700 in the spring.

They get 300# insted of 150# and sell for top $ instead of what everyone has, the easiest thing to have is 550 in the fall and 850 in the spring.
 
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