Questions from a rank beginner!!!

[Blkbuckaroo]

Was reading a couple back issues of Nevada Rancher Magazine,on Alternative feed sources in years of low feed,drought and fire.Wondered if anyone here had any experience feeding out Rice straw,Corn stalks,Almond hulls,or Distillers grains?And if they had any success or problems with them.Seems to be an issue of putting up while it's still green and baled correctly.It went on to say that the protein in Rice straw was in direct relation to how much fertilizer the farmer applied.Protein levels where anywhere from 2-8 percent,with a mature dry cow needing 7-8 percent protein,high quality rice straw might be alright ,but anything less is just supplementation,nothing beats good grass hay or Alfalfa of course!Corn Stalks??Almond hulls?
We have lots of almond farmers in the Sacramento valley so that's another option,but price of gas would make that prohibitive,$4.25 cents per gallon for Diesel around here!!!!!Ouch!!Distilers grain from ethanol or breweries,but also have to go get and haul.Probably a good scenario for winter supplementation or those who still have no grass and are looking at feeding roughage for extended time???Maybe! Last question,is there anyway to find EPDS on animals without having the info on sire or dam???Have a little bull calf i wondered if i might use him as a heifer bull?Obviously have the dam,but no Epds on either parent.She's a really nice Cow, good udder,nice frame,easy keeper and to get along with,calves easy,always seems healthy,he seem like he'll be a medium size bull good natured,was about 65-70 pds at birth,hard to predict now of course.Or should i band him,he's about three weeks old now???Thanks for any input on this.Just learning and trying to avoid a cattle catastrophe.More of a Horsemen, learning to be a Cattlemen.Thanks in Advance!!!blkbuckaroo. : :???: :cboy:

 

[jigs]

buy a Callicrate bander, then you can decide how that bull calf looks when he is weaned....if you don't like how he developed, band him then.

plus you get all the advantages of mother natures growth hormones by leaving him intact.

as for your feeding......we send hay all over the nation....... would be glad to take your money too! I woiuld even bale up the corn stalks if that is what you were after, but you will need to come wash out the baler after that!!

 

[Blkbuckaroo]

buy a Callicrate bander, then you can decide how that bull calf looks when he is weaned....if you don't like how he developed, band him then.

plus you get all the advantages of mother natures growth hormones by leaving him intact.

as for your feeding......we send hay all over the nation....... would be glad to take your money too! I woiuld even bale up the corn stalks if that is what you were after, but you will need to come wash out the baler after that!!

That's funny!!Well i thought it was interesting,so i figured i'd ask.got my own hay equipment though so i can bale all the corn stalks i need!!!LOL!!Mabye a mix,you know corn stalks,almond husks,rice straw,and distillers grain.LOL!I'll let you know what kind of gain i get!LOL!By the way i meant graze on stalks,says people in the mid west been grazing dry cows on stalks for years,I'm not gonna myself,got plenty of water this year!!Yeah!

 

[Red Robin]

Dried distillers grain is a very good feed. It's about all I use any more if I am developing heifers or bulls. 2 or 3 lbs of DDG and some decent roughage is satisfactory. It's also a very good supplement to cows grazing in a drought where the grass is tough and low protein.

 

[Blkbuckaroo]

Dried distillers grain is a very good feed. It's about all I use any more if I am developing heifers or bulls. 2 or 3 lbs of DDG and some decent roughage is satisfactory. It's also a very good supplement to cows grazing in a drought where the grass is tough and low protein.

Thanks,a friend of my in oregon,gets distilers grain from a brewery in Corvallis,and he's real happy with the stuff.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Best thing to do is get a feed test and build a balanced ration. Those alternative feeds might do just fine but the cost of putting up 2% protien rice straw would be more then it's worth.

EPD's are calculated from the numbers sent in by the breeders of those cattle . EPD's don't mix across breeds.

 

[Blkbuckaroo]

Best thing to do is get a feed test and build a balanced ration. Those alternative feeds might do just fine but the cost of putting up 2% protien rice straw would be more then it's worth.

EPD's are calculated from the numbers sent in by the breeders of those cattle . EPD's don't mix across breeds.

BMR Thanks,i was more thinking on the lines of buying the rice straw,if i ever went down that road.$1.00 a bale in the valley.Also how do breeders derive at those those numbers they send in on EPDs???I mean if you wean a calf,half the weight of its dam is that 50 or +50 i'm confused :???:,i mean is the weaning weight the size of the calf at weaning compared to the weight of the dam at that same time,someone please explain. What about milk caculations?And so forth.Once again i'm just learning and never really understood EPDs to well!

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Best thing to do is get a feed test and build a balanced ration. Those alternative feeds might do just fine but the cost of putting up 2% protien rice straw would be more then it's worth.

EPD's are calculated from the numbers sent in by the breeders of those cattle . EPD's don't mix across breeds.

BMR Thanks,i was more thinking on the lines of buying the rice straw,if i ever went down that road.$1.00 a bale in the valley.Also how do breeders derive at those those numbers they send in on EPDs???I mean if you wean a calf,half the weight of its dam is that 50 or +50 i'm confused :???:,i mean is the weaning weight the size of the calf at weaning compared to the weight of the dam at that same time,someone please explain. What about milk caculations?And so forth.Once again i'm just learning and never really understood EPDs to well!

If you don't under stand EPD's well then WELCOME TO TH CLUB. :lol:

The numbers are generated through fomulas using Birth weight, Weaning weight but it also uses historical data from the previous generations as well as information from other herds that are using the same bull AI.
I am sure there are others on here that could explain it better then myself.

 

[jigs]

epd data is a look at the genetic history and a crystal ball to the future, but is by no means always factual. a low birth weight bull with a great grandfather who threw big calves can occasionally throw a big one himself.

I look at epds when buying a heifer bull, but any other time, it is the "look" of the bull I go by. I like to walk among the bulls and get a feel for how they will be sorting and moving , also, his balls gotta be bigger than mine! :wink:

 

[Red Robin]

Best thing to do is get a feed test and build a balanced ration. Those alternative feeds might do just fine but the cost of putting up 2% protien rice straw would be more then it's worth.

EPD's are calculated from the numbers sent in by the breeders of those cattle . EPD's don't mix across breeds.

BMR Thanks,i was more thinking on the lines of buying the rice straw,if i ever went down that road.$1.00 a bale in the valley.Also how do breeders derive at those those numbers they send in on EPDs???I mean if you wean a calf,half the weight of its dam is that 50 or +50 i'm confused :???:,i mean is the weaning weight the size of the calf at weaning compared to the weight of the dam at that same time,someone please explain. What about milk caculations?And so forth.Once again i'm just learning and never really understood EPDs to well!

Using a birth weight epd for an example, EPDs are the Expected Progeny Differences between any bull and the rest of the bulls in the breed. For the sake of discussion, lets say my bull has a bw epd of +4 and Big Muddy has a bull with a bw EPD of 0, his bull has an expected progeny difference for birthweight of 4lbs less than my bull. An epd won't tell you any actual weights. Those will vary from herd to herd and environment to environment but on average big muddy's bull will theoretically average 4lbs less birth weight than my bull. Initially the epd's of an animal are derived mostly from averaging the parents epd's and also taking into account an animals actual performance.

 

[Blkbuckaroo]

epd data is a look at the genetic history and a crystal ball to the future, but is by no means always factual. a low birth weight bull with a great grandfather who threw big calves can occasionally throw a big one himself.

I look at epds when buying a heifer bull, but any other time, it is the "look" of the bull I go by. I like to walk among the bulls and get a feel for how they will be sorting and moving , also, his balls gotta be bigger than mine! :wink:

Exactly!!LOL!Well i like the look of this little guy,and i can find out about his sire next time i'm in town,so i'll start there.Just have to wait and see what he becomes i guess.Thanks guys!!!

 

[Red Robin]

Here's a good link for some epd explanations.
http://redangus.org/genetics/epd-faq/

 

[Blkbuckaroo]

Best thing to do is get a feed test and build a balanced ration. Those alternative feeds might do just fine but the cost of putting up 2% protien rice straw would be more then it's worth.

EPD's are calculated from the numbers sent in by the breeders of those cattle . EPD's don't mix across breeds.

BMR Thanks,i was more thinking on the lines of buying the rice straw,if i ever went down that road.$1.00 a bale in the valley.Also how do breeders derive at those those numbers they send in on EPDs???I mean if you wean a calf,half the weight of its dam is that 50 or +50 i'm confused :???:,i mean is the weaning weight the size of the calf at weaning compared to the weight of the dam at that same time,someone please explain. What about milk caculations?And so forth.Once again i'm just learning and never really understood EPDs to well!

Using a birth weight epd for an example, EPDs are the Expected Progeny Differences between any bull and the rest of the bulls in the breed. For the sake of discussion, lets say my bull has a bw epd of +4 and Big Muddy has a bull with a bw EPD of 0, his bull has an expected progeny difference for birthweight of 4lbs less than my bull. An epd won't tell you any actual weights. Those will vary from herd to herd and environment to environment but on average big muddy's bull will theoretically average 4lbs less birth weight than my bull. Initially the epd's of an animal are derived mostly from averaging the parents epd's and also taking into account an animals actual performance.

Thanks RR,That was put in good terms i can understand,looking at a sale catalog can sometimes be a little intimidating to the novice,appreciate your reply!So basically the comparison of two individuals of same age,size,and same breed???or does that matter??

 

[Red Robin]

BMR Thanks,i was more thinking on the lines of buying the rice straw,if i ever went down that road.$1.00 a bale in the valley.Also how do breeders derive at those those numbers they send in on EPDs???I mean if you wean a calf,half the weight of its dam is that 50 or +50 i'm confused :???:,i mean is the weaning weight the size of the calf at weaning compared to the weight of the dam at that same time,someone please explain. What about milk caculations?And so forth.Once again i'm just learning and never really understood EPDs to well!

Using a birth weight epd for an example, EPDs are the Expected Progeny Differences between any bull and the rest of the bulls in the breed. For the sake of discussion, lets say my bull has a bw epd of +4 and Big Muddy has a bull with a bw EPD of 0, his bull has an expected progeny difference for birthweight of 4lbs less than my bull. An epd won't tell you any actual weights. Those will vary from herd to herd and environment to environment but on average big muddy's bull will theoretically average 4lbs less birth weight than my bull. Initially the epd's of an animal are derived mostly from averaging the parents epd's and also taking into account an animals actual performance.

Thanks RR,That was put in good terms i can understand,looking at a sale catalog can sometimes be a little intimidating to the novice,appreciate your reply!So basically the comparison of two individuals of same age,size,and same breed???or does that matter??

It is a comparison of two individuals within any breed. Each breed association has a different set of epd's. Age and size on any two animals within any breed has no bearing on the epd's. If big muddy's bull was 10 years older than my bull, the epd's still apply. You'll notice though that the more a bull is used , the higher his accuracy gets so his epd "should" be more reliable to determine how his calves will average compared to a different bull.

 

[Blkbuckaroo]

Makes perfect sense now,i think i'm starting to get a grasp on the concept now,still like visual though.Thanks everyone for weighing in on the subject!!!