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Quiet, gentle cattle are worth more $

Faster horses

Well-known member
This was in the Tri-State Livestock News, for those of you who don't subscribe:

Headlines August 12, 2006

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By Steve Paisley
University of Wyoming, State Beef Cattle Extension

With the current climatic trend in west leaning towards continued dry, most producers have had to cull herds considerably deeper than they would like. Traditional culling procedures have always included the 3 0's: Open, Old and Ornery. In fact, when I was a UW student, we had a "culling list" taped inside the office during calving season. Cows that seemed to develop a taste for Carhartt® automatically made the list, along with colorful comments describing her particular disposition. But like all operations, actually having a live, healthy calf on the ground tended to soften your heart a little. We have all succumbed to the old phrase "Well, she DID raise a good calf" at least once.

Temperament: A convenience trait? There are several economic and management factors, combined with new research, that has at least moved cattle temperament, or disposition, up on the list of important traits. Ranching trends, such as the increasing size of ranches, fewer ranch employees, the increased use of 4-wheelers and other ATV's, and even rising health care costs have all made temperament an important issue. As the industry moves more towards individually tagging cattle, and marketing fed cattle individually through grid pricing, it's becoming easier to identify individual cattle and bloodlines, and how temperament can potentially impact calf health, performance and carcass merit.

Temperament impacts calf health. We've always suspected that temperament, defined as "mothering ability" is essential for colostrum intake, and adequate transfer of passive immunity to the calf. Several studies show a direct link between colostrum intake of the calf and overall health, both prior to weaning as well as in the feedlot. More recent research from Texas A&M has shown that calm cattle respond better to weaning and feedlot vaccinations, resulting in a better immune response to the vaccine and better overall immune protection.

Temperament and feedlot performance. Studies from Colorado State University, as well as a recent summary of 3 years data from an Iowa Tri-County Futurity feedlot test suggest that steer temperament affects feedlot gain. In the recent Iowa report estimates that "docile" and "restless" cattle had increased feedlot gains valued at $37 and $29 over aggressive cattle. More controlled studies reported by Missouri, Texas A&M and Mississippi State looking at specific groups of cattle are not as clear. Often, the sire effect is larger than the impact of temperament. The difficulty with these studies is that removing the sire effect from a group of cattle (and differences in temperament between sires) also impacts the overall interpretation of temperament results. Temperament appears to be an moderately heritable trait, and it is difficult to separate out the performance and temperament differences between sires.

Temperament and Carcass Quality. There is more conclusive data reported by several universities that suggests that highly excitable cattle tend to have reduced marbling (lower USDA quality grade). Recent studies from Mississippi State and Texas A&M report that cattle with high temperament scores (1=calm, 5=extremely wild/aggressive) have an increased incidence of tough steaks. Although tenderness isn't a current criteria in determining fed cattle prices, it's still an important issue for the industry to address. The 2005 National Fed Beef Quality Audit identified the lack of uniformity in marbling and tenderness as the number one challenge for the industry. Identifying factors that affect tenderness is an important first step.

Measuring temperament. Current systems used to measure temperament include Pen Score, a subjective measurement based on observing cattle in the pen, Chute Score, and estimate of temperament based on observing cattle while restrained in the chute, and Exit Velocity, how fast an animal leaves the chute after being processed. Many of us have less formal criteria, such as the number of fence boards you have to climb to get out of danger, response to aluminum bat treatment, the cow's ability to climb in back of the pickup with you, and how aggressively she chases the dog.

So how important is temperament? It's difficult to put a dollar value on cattle disposition. If you retain ownership through the feedlot, the Iowa report suggests that calm cattle are worth $50 - $60/head premium based on higher feedlot gain and improved carcass quality. Additional considerations that are more vague include the dam's mothering ability and associated calf health and performance as well as convenience and safety issues. I'm not aware of any studies comparing heifer temperament and overall A.I. conception rates. While temperament may not be at the top of the culling criteria list, recent data suggests it may be a more important trait than once thought. Certainly the industry has identified uniformity, marbling and tenderness as important industry issues, and temperament is most likely a contributing factor in all three
 

Turkey Track Bar

Well-known member
Good stuff FH, thanks for posting. Steve Paisley is first class, and in my book Wyoming is darn lucky to have him!!!

Thanks again...

Cheers---

TTB :wink:

PS Hope everything works here to be in Baker for Josh Turner (he's on TV right now, man his voice and singing is truly something, something good that is!) and visiting (not necessarily in that order!) a week from now!
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
I see a massive EXT cull coming up lol. if on a quiet scale if 1 is calm and 5 is wild most ranches work best with cows that are probably 1-3. When following our cattle through it's interesting that when you get the oidd dark cutter it's not always the nut case. But generally I agree that a bit on the quiet is best- I have the sin pasture that the others go into. As far as selecting for cattle that I can handle on a quad-not in my lifetime lol.
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Gentle ain't all bad, but I still want one who can whip a coyote or two! :lol:

And I've helped work some of them "gentle" cattle. They ain't gentle, just obstinate and a pain in the butt! They need to have at least a couple three feet for a flight zone.
 

cowsense

Well-known member
Temperment is a trait that is far too often ignored or placed too low on the selection list trait.........Quiet cattle that are easy to hold, move, haul and feed make life a lot simpler and and should be more profitable in the end result!
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
OK, Jinglebob, just for you:

Gentle cattle with RESPECT! :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That reminds me of when I was first running yearlings. We had a couple of good border collie dogs. Whenever we were around these cattle, whether doctoring, feeding or whatever, the dogs were there also. Whenever a yearling tried to run away from the bunch, the dogs took to him/her until they came back to the bunch. They soon learned that the safest place to be was in the bunch. We would be roping and doctoring them that summer and you'd be running to catch one as he ran thru' the bunch and the rest would just stand and watch. We had several t bone wrecks that way! :lol:

When we shipped them that fall, they were fat and the day was cool, but they walked to the pens and onto the trucks. Several neighbors who helped, commented on how gentle the cattle were.

Good dogs can make some nice handling cattle, when used properly and those who don't like dogs, have just never been around any good ones! :wink:
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
Case in point-that witch we a'i'ed on the end of a rope would be classified as quiet-she reallky didn't have a flight zone so to speak. Just would stand and push back on the horse-like I said cattle need a bit of life to be any good-we rope most of the calves we tag and the cows hardly lift they're heads. Some of the worst maulings I've taken A'I'ing were from quiet barnyard cattle.
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
I think there is a happy medium with cattle if they are too quiet its hard to work with them at times when you are trying to get them down a chute. Prod does help. But I think everyone should have the odd wild cow as it keeps you on your toes when you are working with the rest. People seem to forget that even the quiet ones loose their minds sometimes.... :roll: As I always say with our wild ones it keeps me young when wanna play...... :wink: :lol:
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
I for one agree, that a good dog is an equalizer. Our cattle are quiet, but not dull. We don't want any wild ones for any reason. I'm talking jumping fences wild, that kind of thing. Our cattle respect a dog and a horse. Any that don't we can't use on this ma and pa outfit.

Wild cattle are for young, ambitious people who don't mind repairing fences and corrals. :wink:
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
I for one agree, that a good dog is an equalizer. Our cattle are quiet, but not dull. We don't want any wild ones for any reason. I'm talking jumping fences wild, that kind of thing. Our cattle respect a dog and a horse. Any that don't we can't use on this ma and pa outfit.

Wild cattle are for young, ambitious people who don't mind repairing fences and corrals. :wink:

I should post my story titled, "Poor fences make good cowboys"! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
Prods are 'au verbotten' around my A'I' projects-if I see any I just put the batteries in backwards so they don't work lol. Also 'good' cattle dogs get tied up while I'm arming cows.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Once again, moderation in all things. Cattle should be gentle, but not pets. I don't like "welfare cases", in other words cattle that want cake or corn fed to them by hand. Cattle should be docile, but still respect "my" personal area. Bulls that are "scratchable" are too gentle. You just never know when their attitude might change, and their cute little playfulness becomes dangerous. Dogs just as well stay out of my corral, because when they are in it, I'm mad. :mad: As long as I'm writing the checks on this outfit, this is the way it will be. :wink: Would-be job seekers with cow dogs need not apply. :!: :)

There is nothing wrong about roping to doctor cattle in a pasture, but certain rules apply on this outfit. Of course, a sneak shot by easing a horse through the herd is the most approved method. Usually it becomes necessary to run a critter and that is fine. What is not fine, though, is to run the sought after critter through the herd making all the rest of the cattle wild. If a critter needs to be chased, it needs to be sorted away from the rest of the cattle and run out in open country where the commotion will not at all influence the rest of the herd. That way, a sneak shot can still be executed on another needful bovine. Gentle cattle mean more pounds and more profit. The only way to move cattle fast is to move them slow.
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Soapweed said:
There is nothing wrong about roping to doctor cattle in a pasture, but certain rules apply on this outfit. Of course, a sneak shot by easing a horse through the herd is the most approved method. Usually it becomes necessary to run a critter and that is fine. What is not fine, though, is to run the sought after critter through the herd making all the rest of the cattle wild. If a critter needs to be chased, it needs to be sorted away from the rest of the cattle and run out in open country where the commotion will not at all influence the rest of the herd. That way, a sneak shot can still be executed on another needful bovine. Gentle cattle mean more pounds and more profit. The only way to move cattle fast is to move them slow.

I'd have to agree with you on this Soapweed. But once in awhile, in smaller pastures with creeks and draws, the only way to catch one quick, is in the herd. Then, it is acceptable to me, to rope them in the bunch, at a run, if necessary.

And if you'd just get your cattle more used to you, why hell, they will just stand there and watch you rope the other ones! :wink:

I almost cut a thumb off one time, trying for a sneak shot on sick calves. My fault, not the claves, but I will now run one rather than taking a chance on losing body parts. I got more calves to spare than body parts! :lol:

Besides, if you get them running, when you give them the shot, why the blood is flowing better and then you know the medicine is getting to the problem faster! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ask Tumbleweed how far you should chase a cow, before you rope her and doctor her, by yourself! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I really like to run them until they lay down. Then it's easier to put the rope on and take it off. Of course, they take a little longer to get over being sick, but what the heck, they was sick so they needed culled anyways! :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll have to tell a story on myself. I had a pretty big bull that was limpin' this summer. A guy I know is a good hand was tellin' me how handy these medidart crossbows are. So I got one to doctor this ol' bull, who might just get on the fight. I didn't have no corral or chute close and handy, so this looked like a good way to do it and it just might be fun! :lol:

Got the crossbow and doctored the bull. I was tellin' a younger feller, that I tease and he teases me back about every thing, about getting this crossbow and how well it worked. He told me he thought I was turnin' into a farmer! 'Course he was just jokin'.

About a week later, I got a call from a feller who said he was from the Medidart company and had learned that I had gotten a crossbow of thiers. I told him I had, so he told me that I would get a free pair of bib coveralls because of the purchase and wondered what size I might want. As he said this, I detected a chuckle, so I just started cussing him up one side and down the other! When he got a chance, he explained that my buddy had put him up to it, seein's as how I was turnin' farmer, by buying a crossbow! It was good for a laugh, but now I got to figure out a good way to get back at him. By the way, this feller is the one who got the saddle that I posted last winter, as I was building it. Sure wish I had installed a remote ejection seat! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
Now I remember where I saw u before Jinglebob you were the guy in the DeKalb ball cap selling corn at the farmer's market in sturgis I'de never seen jinglebob spurs and bib overalls worn together before lol. :D
 

Brad S

Well-known member
Jinglebob, I use border collies, but I have a friend that uses currs outta east Texas. I wouldn't use currs on manerly cattle, but if cattle want trouble, currs or cow hounds are cool. My friend took in 10 loads of saler/brangus cows from Texas drought country. They took off and no fence would stop them or even slow them down much. Ernie gave me a horse to just follow and keep them in sight while he gethered fresh horses and his currs. They caught up with me about 10 miles up a creek and the cows were pretty much run out if there is such a thing with stupid cattle. We tried to herd the cows outta the creeks and brush to help the dogs but they'd have none of it so Ernie dumped 5 dogs on them in the creek. Those dogs went to biteing any nose or ear that wasn't in the herd. It was common to see a cow fling a dog 10 feet in the air to get him off her nose. After 15 minutes of helter skelter the cows began behaving like a herd that none wanted to lead anywhere. Ernie thought the'd need more schooling so he cooled off a couple dogs at a time. After an hour, those wild cattle were tame. It took forever to trail them back to where they came from.


So I have some steers in the flinthills that are basically swampers. about 30 of 1000 brushed up in a wet canyon that is so full of brush you can't ride a horse or even walk through it. My grass man is all calm saying "we'll catch them when snow flies," but I want them on feed 60 days by then. I want to retain the opportunity to deliver against the feb board because swampers ain't usually real fancy cattle. Well if you pack out of town cowboys in, you don't make friends with the local cowboys, they are offended. So I had a quandry, I wanted my calves caught without rankeling the locals. So Ernie loaded his dogs and just he and I slipped in and gathered that canyon. Those steers were almost begging for a chane to herd up with the big pen. Outlaw to pet in a couple hours. It will be interesting to how they retain their schooling come fall gather. The dogs split their ears pretty well so we'd have a good mark on them.
 

andybob

Well-known member
As my disabled son is helping with the herd, docility is essential, although he will not be working the bulls. When I raised Tuli cattle in Rhodesia, although docile, they were very protective with their calves, as we had leopards, African lynx and jackals on the farm, any cow not raising a calf went to the abattoir in its place. I have always put a premium on handlability.
 

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Brad S said:
Jinglebob, I use border collies, but I have a friend that uses currs outta east Texas. I wouldn't use currs on manerly cattle, but if cattle want trouble, currs or cow hounds are cool. My friend took in 10 loads of saler/brangus cows from Texas drought country. They took off and no fence would stop them or even slow them down much. Ernie gave me a horse to just follow and keep them in sight while he gethered fresh horses and his currs. They caught up with me about 10 miles up a creek and the cows were pretty much run out if there is such a thing with stupid cattle. We tried to herd the cows outta the creeks and brush to help the dogs but they'd have none of it so Ernie dumped 5 dogs on them in the creek. Those dogs went to biteing any nose or ear that wasn't in the herd. It was common to see a cow fling a dog 10 feet in the air to get him off her nose. After 15 minutes of helter skelter the cows began behaving like a herd that none wanted to lead anywhere. Ernie thought the'd need more schooling so he cooled off a couple dogs at a time. After an hour, those wild cattle were tame. It took forever to trail them back to where they came from.


So I have some steers in the flinthills that are basically swampers. about 30 of 1000 brushed up in a wet canyon that is so full of brush you can't ride a horse or even walk through it. My grass man is all calm saying "we'll catch them when snow flies," but I want them on feed 60 days by then. I want to retain the opportunity to deliver against the feb board because swampers ain't usually real fancy cattle. Well if you pack out of town cowboys in, you don't make friends with the local cowboys, they are offended. So I had a quandry, I wanted my calves caught without rankeling the locals. So Ernie loaded his dogs and just he and I slipped in and gathered that canyon. Those steers were almost begging for a chane to herd up with the big pen. Outlaw to pet in a couple hours. It will be interesting to how they retain their schooling come fall gather. The dogs split their ears pretty well so we'd have a good mark on them.

Wish I'd a been there! :D

You'd a knowed me by my spurs with jinglebobs and my bib overhauls! :lol: :lol:

I've always wanted a "ketch" dog. Dad always had a few breechy cows that I thought it would be fun to catch when they were out and educate them a little. :lol:

Good, I said GOOD, dogs, can be very helpful. Kind of like good help. :lol:
 

CattleRMe

Well-known member
Temeperment is definatly a trait that determines who gets a ride to town around this outfit. A cow that will hurt one of us is a liability to the operation and can raise expenses with just one attempt at a person.

Good post!
 

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