R-CALF and M-ID

[Border rancher]

Fair enough, thanks for the answer. If R-Calf's fight is not against the Canadian producer, maybe they should share that fact with all their members. I was in a MT. town a few days ago and saw 2 pick-ups boasting a bumper sticker showing a guy urinating on a Canadian T Bone. Words were "P... on Canadian Beef" They also had a n R_Calf sticker proudly placed on the truck side windows.


So, if these people are not agaisnt US, as you say, what do thse bumper stickers mean?

 

[Sandhusker]

Fair enough, thanks for the answer. If R-Calf's fight is not against the Canadian producer, maybe they should share that fact with all their members. I was in a MT. town a few days ago and saw 2 pick-ups boasting a bumper sticker showing a guy urinating on a Canadian T Bone. Words were "P... on Canadian Beef" They also had a n R_Calf sticker proudly placed on the truck side windows.


So, if these people are not agaisnt US, as you say, what do thse bumper stickers mean?

I'd say those bumper stickers mean the displayers of them are suffering from a defficiency of class and tact. I'm sure some people do have it out for Canadians. Some have it out for Mexicans, Orientals, Jews, Catholics, Methodists, etc... Anti-Canadianism in not R-CALF company policy. If those two "gentlemen" would read everything that comes from R-CALF headquarters, they would realize that.

 

[Anonymous]

Fair enough, thanks for the answer. If R-Calf's fight is not against the Canadian producer, maybe they should share that fact with all their members. I was in a MT. town a few days ago and saw 2 pick-ups boasting a bumper sticker showing a guy urinating on a Canadian T Bone. Words were "P... on Canadian Beef" They also had a n R_Calf sticker proudly placed on the truck side windows.


So, if these people are not agaisnt US, as you say, what do thse bumper stickers mean?

Border Rancher- I have never saw those stickers in my area- altho out here in the Podunk corner of the state we are the last to see anything...But that said- there is about 10 years resentment about Canadian ranchers that continued to call neighboring Montana cattle (and all others from south of the 49th) diseased- and restricted their movement north- while Canada shipped semi after semi of live cattle and swinging beef south...A restriction that was shown to be just a trade barrier when Canada finally dropped it after the border closure in hopes of sucking up and getting the border opened...............................ITS A MIRACLE- NO MORE BLUE TONGUE OR ANAPLAS :???: :roll:

 

[Silver]

But why would you want to send cattle north anyway? Kinda goes against the whole protectionist theme doesn't it?
At any rate, your cattle still came north, all that was asked was a test during the warmer months to prove they weren't diseased. It was a herd health issue, and a real one at one time. Many of us up here have held for a long time that it wasn't fair. I allways figured that if we didn't want US beef coming up for financial reasons, we should have had the guts to stand up and say that that's why we were doing it. Much like you guys need to get up the nerve to stand up and say "we don't want your live cows because we feel it will be money out of our pockets." Not try to pass this whole thing off as a health issue while the rest of the world laughs at the transparency of the situation.

 

[Tam]

I have heard R-CALF say this is not about Canadian ranchers but why are they telling anyone and everyone that if Canadian cattle are allowed to enter the US human lives will be at risk of contractijg vCJD when they know that is not true if the SRM rule is followed. Science also says that meat from cattle under 30 months is safe when the SRMs are removed which they are in both the US and Canada but that has not stopped R-CALF telling people they are at risk. If this is not about Canadian rancher and their product then maybe they should tone down the comments about the safety of our beef.

 

[PORKER]

Science also says that meat from cattle under 30 months is safe when the SRMs are removed .********SCIENCE by NAME and Lie's by a science is the crutch everyone uses,Just look at ALL of the versions of the same SCIENCE. Those VERSIONS are made to fit each thought.Some FOR and SOME AGANIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tam]

Science also says that meat from cattle under 30 months is safe when the SRMs are removed .********SCIENCE by NAME and Lie's by a science is the crutch everyone uses,Just look at ALL of the versions of the same SCIENCE. Those VERSIONS are made to fit each thought.Some FOR and SOME AGANIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The versions of the science are made to fit alright. Like the version when Leo said the science Canada uses is inadaquate to protect and BSE is a BIG ISSUE in Canada and all beef coming for here is tainted and a genuine risk of death verses the version where the same but not as strict science that the US uses to protect will result in BSE being a non issue and everybody will just keep on eating US beef at no risk if BSE is found in the US herd, Which version fits your thoughts, is the beef safe or is it a genuine risk of death no matter where it comes from.

 

[PORKER]

Which version fits your thoughts, is the beef safe or is it a genuine risk of death no matter where it comes from.TAM***************The beef is SAFE when all the records are in front of me from Field to FORK and that includes how that animal was fed and the feed supplier data with the packer data of which SRMs were removed and the age of the animal.Of course you would need www.scoringag.com records in order to achieve any truth of what was done.
Another thought TAM,are you a risk taker like a person walking across a highway blindfolded with ear plugs?
Myself ,I lessen the risk by either taking off the blindfold or removing the earplugs or both.Life can be short.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Hi Sandhusker, I am so disappointed you have ignored all my posts, I've been waiting to hear from you. Nothing much from me here except your spelling mistake took all the clout out of the last post by you. BURDENSOME is the correct spelling.
You are right about one thing, this ID stuff is a burden, financial and work wise! We know in Canada, we have done it for several years. That is the LAW here. Everytime the "powers that be" decree an improvement in the system, it costs us more. Now they want Date of Birth recorded for every tag number. I hope they will have enough money allotted to our Health Care system to look after the ranchers who need it when they are run over by an old Mama cow with a brand new baby that has to be tagged immediately!

Border rancher you don't need to tag your calves at birth. To register your birth date on your calves you can register them all when the fist calf is born so they are all the age of the oldest if you wish. They can be tagged at any time before they leave the ranch so you could tag tag them in the fall before you sell and register the birth date for when your first calf was born.

 

[Border rancher]

Thanks, I do know how it works, but when you read in the media how it will be, it sounds like they want the consumer, or non cattleman to think we are all out there tagging as soon as the calf pops out. Most of these policies are formed by people who know nothing of the day to day happenings on any ranch.

 

[Tam]

I have heard R-CALF say this is not about Canadian ranchers but why are they telling anyone and everyone that if Canadian cattle are allowed to enter the US human lives will be at risk of contractijg vCJD when they know that is not true if the SRM rule is followed. Science also says that meat from cattle under 30 months is safe when the SRMs are removed which they are in both the US and Canada but that has not stopped R-CALF telling people they are at risk. If this is not about Canadian rancher and their product then maybe they should tone down the comments about the safety of our beef.

Tam - haven't you read anything I posted? In lab animals, the disease was transmitted via blood HALFWAY through the incubation period. There is not a magic moment at 29 months and 29 days. Science is about the probability of danger based on when SYMPTOMS occur and based on current knowledge. SRMs that are removed under 30 months do not include the CNS so I feel uncomfortable with your statement and so did the International Committee who Venneman brought in.

Do you mean all 690 of them no I haven't but can you tell me why if the OIE agreed to the SRM removal that is being done by the US and Canada I should take you word over theirs. They just happen to be backed up by a working group of internationally renowned scienist, most of who are experts within the network of OIE's 152 collaborating centers and reference laboratories. and sets the rules the rest of the world follows. According to R-CALF


Taken from the OIE report to the USDA

In the mean time, until the level of BSE risk has been established, the subcommittee concedes that exclution of CNS, skull and vertebral column from cattle over 30 months and the intestines from cattle of all ages for use in human food is a reasonable temporary compromise

notice 30 months not 29 months 29 days reader This is not the only time the OIE uses the cut off date of 30 months in their recommendations either it is used in the testing also. If the OIE conceded to the compromise they must have had a reason to believe that the health of the consumer wouldn't be put at risk Or maybe you are saying the OIE doesn't care about the health of the world beef consumers like R-CALF says the USDA and the packers don't care. :roll:

Tell me reader, I know are not an R-CALFer but you stuck your nose into the discussion so tell me if this is such a health risk why did R-CALF say this

A Prerequisite to restoring Canadian Imports Must be to Restore Export Markets for the United States's Beef and Cattle Industries

Is Canadian beef suddenly going to loose the genuine risk of death status it has now once Japan opens their borders and the US need the beef to supply their export markets as we all know the US doesn't have enough of their own to supply the US domestic market let alone an export market?

 

[Anonymous]

Reader: "In lab animals, the disease was transmitted via blood HALFWAY through the incubation period."

Lab mice are not cattle!


~SH~

 

[Tommy]

SH...Lab mice are not cattle!

No Scott they are not, but how do they test for different diseases, new drugs, and other things? They use lab mice, not humans or in this case cattle.

 

[Mike]

Reader: "In lab animals, the disease was transmitted via blood HALFWAY through the incubation period."

Lab mice are not cattle!
~SH~

That's obviously true SH but mice have payed an important role in the BSE science field since it first reared its ugly head. The very first tests for BSE was a procedure of injecting mice with prions.......then waiting to see if they multiplied in the mouse. A long but effective means that was/is highly accurate.
Use of mice by the numerous labs has given prion research more info than any other medium.
There is a facility not 10 miles from me that raises & ships lab mice all over the world for research. The owner told me he sends usually 1000 mice per week to BSE research facilities. In all, he ships about 100,000 per week. He is a cousin to the "Mayo's" of the Mayo Clinic fame.

 

[Anonymous]

It is my understanding that they have tried these same transusion tests on actual bovines and have not been able to obtain the same results.

I will put my faith in the collection of world scientists that have agreed that SRM removal, increased BSE surveilance in the highest risk categories, and the feed ban is the correct approach.

Not some researcher who is looking for his "claim to fame" by being contradictory or some trade isolationist BSE "fear mongerer" that is trying to set a BSE presidence for Canada that they are unwilling to live with themselves.

Just look at the statistical aspects of this whole thing.

If BSE was the potential problem that some would lead us to believe, WHERE IS THE PROOF???

It doesn't exist!

It's all conjecture and theory!

If we let "conjecture" and "theory" start regulating us to death based on "what ifs", where will it end????


Sandhusker: "Because he ruled in R-CALF's favor does not mean R-CALF bought him off - it only means they had the better arguements."

Wrong again Sandhusker!

It means the judge thought R-CALF's arguments WERE WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION. Who has the better arguments has yet to be decided.

Typical you!


Sandhusker: "Yes, R-CALF member do see this as a fight for survival. However, the fight is NOT against the Canadian producers, as many Canadians have willed themselves to believe."

Lip service!

I suppose that would explain Leo McDonnell stating that Canada was still processing downer cows???

Yup, you keep ignoring the knife that your organization has stuck in the back of our northern neighbors because they are too ignorant to understand the true impact of Canadian imports on the WORLD MARKET.

Give that R-CULT turbin another wrap!



~SH~

 

[Anonymous]

Any research is good if it is addressed as what it really is. In the case of BSE, most is CONJECTURE, THEORY, AND SPECULATION.

When there is $ at stake, CONJECTURE, THEORY, AND SPECULATION amazingly transforms into fact.

You need unbiased researchers, not those who are looking for their "claim to fame" in their quest for originality by questioning more commonly accepted research.


~SH~

 

[Mike]

You need unbiased researchers, not those who are looking for their "claim to fame" in their quest for originality by questioning more commonly accepted research.
~SH~

How in the heck do you think scientific "Theories" become the standard, or the "commonly accepted"?
By the questioning of them of course. There are probably no "unbiased" researchers on the planet. When they have an idea that could possibly prove a theory to be wrong they apply for a grant, and set out to disprove. If their peers say they succeed, they hit the headlines, if they don't, well, they go apply for another grant.

On the other hand, do you think a scientist could get a grant to prove Prusiner is correct about prions? I doubt it.

Conjecture and speculation seem to be awful strong words coming from someone who is not a scientist or probably doesn't even know a scientist.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes Mike, good research does start out as speculation, theory, and conjecture but that is exactly how it should be addressed.

Somehow specultation, conjecture, and theory becomes fact!

I have said before that I think Prusiner's "THEORIES" should be pursued but they shouldn't become "FACT" until they are proven to be "FACT".

Somehow Prusiner's "THEORIES" have become "FACT" by those who want to keep the Canadian border closed to live cattle. HOW IRONIC HUH?????


~SH~

 

[Mike]

Yes Mike, good research does start out as speculation, theory, and conjecture but that is exactly how it should be addressed.

Somehow specultation, conjecture, and theory becomes fact!

I have said before that I think Prusiner's "THEORIES" should be pursued but they shouldn't become "FACT" until they are proven to be "FACT".

Somehow Prusiner's "THEORIES" have become "FACT" by those who want to keep the Canadian border closed to live cattle. HOW IRONIC HUH?????
~SH~

Prusiner's "Theory" has not become fact by R-Calf. That's a ridiculous statement. It just hasn't been shot down by science. And you can bet there are those who wish to.