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R-Calf Convention

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Bill

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I have looked and tried to find even the samllest news item on the recent R-Calf Klan meeting and have come up with nothing. For being such a "major" player and being the "fastest growing" group representing cow-calf producers not to have even one reporter interested has me confused.

Was it a non-event in the eyes of the US beef industry?
 

ocm

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nenmrancher said:
Know someone who went and said it was the most unorganized meeting they had ever attended.

I was there. That is not an accurate description. There was some missing of schedules that affected the second day significantly. "Disorganized" overstates the case.

Did your friend mention that Max Thornsberry, who was supposed to chair the convention was badly injured and could not attend. Events like that affect what happens.

Could things have run more smoothly, yes! This is part of what happens when you grow so rapidly and have a paid staff of only eight people--total. Just watch. Things will improve. I have attended many much more unorganized meetings.
 

ocm

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One event that happened that I think was quite significant (from my point of view). A resolution was passed (it still has to pass membership voting but I don't have much doubt about it) that would create a standing committee on private property rights.

One of the panels featured a speaker from the Paragon Foundation. He didn't speak long but he received a standing ovation after speaking.

The crowd seemed very enthusiastic about such things as property rights, patriotism, etc. At the banquet all veterans were recognized.
 

Bill

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ocm said:
One event that happened that I think was quite significant (from my point of view). A resolution was passed (it still has to pass membership voting but I don't have much doubt about it) that would create a standing committee on private property rights.

One of the panels featured a speaker from the Paragon Foundation. He didn't speak long but he received a standing ovation after speaking.

The crowd seemed very enthusiastic about such things as property rights, patriotism, etc. At the banquet all veterans were recognized.
A resolution was passed to actually create a committee???????WOW! Some business was done then. :lol: :lol:

Sounds like quite the organization and convention. Tell me OCM, when you take out R-Calf and hotel staff and spouses, how large of a "crowd" was there doing business?

Real nice that the vets were recognized but expected. R-Calf likes to play on the patriotism thing as they want to make you believe that if you don't support them you can't really be American.
 

nenmrancher

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Wasn't there OCM but I was told the paragon fellow was supposed to be talking about the up coming farm bill and basicly told the crowd that he didnt know anything about the farm bill and went into a property rights speach instead. Is this right or did the fellow telling me about it get the purpose of the panel wrong?
 

mrj

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Bill said:
ocm said:
One event that happened that I think was quite significant (from my point of view). A resolution was passed (it still has to pass membership voting but I don't have much doubt about it) that would create a standing committee on private property rights.

One of the panels featured a speaker from the Paragon Foundation. He didn't speak long but he received a standing ovation after speaking.

The crowd seemed very enthusiastic about such things as property rights, patriotism, etc. At the banquet all veterans were recognized.
A resolution was passed to actually create a committee???????WOW! Some business was done then. :lol: :lol:

Sounds like quite the organization and convention. Tell me OCM, when you take out R-Calf and hotel staff and spouses, how large of a "crowd" was there doing business?

Real nice that the vets were recognized but expected. R-Calf likes to play on the patriotism thing as they want to make you believe that if you don't support them you can't really be American.


Wonder if OT will revolt? He puts down NCBA because we have committees and sub-committees.

With sympathies for Mr. Thornsberry and his speedy recovery, I do have to say that there is nothing at NCBA that is such a one man show that things would not run very smoothly if the someone were suddenly unable to attend.

I've heard "Mr. Paragon" (sorry, I can't recall his name) speak several times on the Derry Brownfield show and he does not impress me. He spiels a little property rights info and a LOT of conspiracy theory mis-information, IMO. Both he and Brownfield lay EVERY possible problem on big business and big government.

It seems to me that the Mountain States Legal Foundation is head and shoulders above the Paragon Foundation in effectively educating about and dealing with private property rights.

nenmrancher, isn't the Paragon Foundation hq in NM, and doesn't the family of the patriarch of that foundation own a huge ranch there? I think he said something about having hundreds of thousands of acres? Suppose it takes quite a few acres to run a cow there in the White Sands are of NM, doesn't it?


ocm, what other things were discussed and/or voted on at the convention? How do the grass-roots members feel about any other issues affecting cattle production?

MRJ

MRJ
 

ocm

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nenmrancher said:
Wasn't there OCM but I was told the paragon fellow was supposed to be talking about the up coming farm bill and basicly told the crowd that he didnt know anything about the farm bill and went into a property rights speach instead. Is this right or did the fellow telling me about it get the purpose of the panel wrong?

He was on the Farm Bill panel, but was not expected to talk about the Farm Bill. He was invited to talk about property rights. His presentation was last of the four on the Farm Bill discussion.

I think that while the crowd paid attention to the other three speakers on the Farm bill, they very much appreciated some discussion on property rights.

The so-called Farm Bill panel was really a catch-all panel for whatever didn't fit in other panels.
 

ocm

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MRJ said:
Bill said:
ocm said:
One event that happened that I think was quite significant (from my point of view). A resolution was passed (it still has to pass membership voting but I don't have much doubt about it) that would create a standing committee on private property rights.

One of the panels featured a speaker from the Paragon Foundation. He didn't speak long but he received a standing ovation after speaking.

The crowd seemed very enthusiastic about such things as property rights, patriotism, etc. At the banquet all veterans were recognized.
A resolution was passed to actually create a committee???????WOW! Some business was done then. :lol: :lol:

Sounds like quite the organization and convention. Tell me OCM, when you take out R-Calf and hotel staff and spouses, how large of a "crowd" was there doing business?

Real nice that the vets were recognized but expected. R-Calf likes to play on the patriotism thing as they want to make you believe that if you don't support them you can't really be American.


Wonder if OT will revolt? He puts down NCBA because we have committees and sub-committees.

With sympathies for Mr. Thornsberry and his speedy recovery, I do have to say that there is nothing at NCBA that is such a one man show that things would not run very smoothly if the someone were suddenly unable to attend.

I've heard "Mr. Paragon" (sorry, I can't recall his name) speak several times on the Derry Brownfield show and he does not impress me. He spiels a little property rights info and a LOT of conspiracy theory mis-information, IMO. Both he and Brownfield lay EVERY possible problem on big business and big government.

It seems to me that the Mountain States Legal Foundation is head and shoulders above the Paragon Foundation in effectively educating about and dealing with private property rights.

nenmrancher, isn't the Paragon Foundation hq in NM, and doesn't the family of the patriarch of that foundation own a huge ranch there? I think he said something about having hundreds of thousands of acres? Suppose it takes quite a few acres to run a cow there in the White Sands are of NM, doesn't it?


ocm, what other things were discussed and/or voted on at the convention? How do the grass-roots members feel about any other issues affecting cattle production?

MRJ

MRJ

People in the Mountain States Legal Foundation have ties to people in R-CALF as well. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of some relationship in the future.

A member of Mountain States Legal Foundation spoke at the OCM annual meeting last August.

I say some of these things to show that R-CALF is becoming more than just trade focused. This has been a deliberate process. They want to maintain focus, but very gradually expand to issues that impact the membership's profitability and it was considered that property rights issues were high on the list, thus the creation of the standing committee.
 

ocm

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Other issues discussed (in individual forums or policy development committees)

Animal ID- Panel members included:
an Australian who related the Australian disaster on ID. Cost(which the government will not report) and VERY inaccurate data caused by non-readings of RFID tags were high on the list. This man said the government came to him looking for some certain cattle that the database had as his, but he had sold. He read the tags accurately (double checked) but the packer did not. Therefore the database showed them as still his and the health inspectors (he referred to them as the tag police) were looking for them. He showed them the check he got when he sold them, but that wasn't good enough. He says animal health professionals working for the government no longer work on actual animal health issues, but have been reduced to tag police.

A Man from USDA (who works on NAIS). He basically told the audience that USDA has heard concerns and it was NOT going to grant the bovine database to a single consortium. And that in deference to certain states with certain laws there would be none of those states' data turned over to private databases.

North Dakota state vet

Some resolutions on animal ID were passed. (they still have to go to the membership for vote) Essentially the resolutions focused on state run programs co-ordinated with brand programs. Opposition to any national program, either government or private.


Checkoff.

Several resolutions for checkoff reform. Basically followed the pattern of MCA ideas. I didn't follow this as closely as the primary meeting conflicted with another I preferred to attend. A few people were entirely against the checkoff, but no major movement to do away with it altogether.


COOL-- of course.


Marketing--The disaster at GIPSA. GAO report on mandatory reporting.
A report from the sheep industry captive supply issues. The sheep industry gets much better and more accurate data from USDA than cattle. The USDA sheep data is currently being used in a study with Montana State University (contracted by GIPSA) to see if captive supply affects price. The presenter showed how USDA's own sheep price information demonstrated the effect of captive supply on the cash sheep market. He has worked with MSU on regression analyses which can also be applied to cattle market data.

The sheep checkoff money is not paid in by importers, so their checkoff is not prevented from advertizing US lamb.



A BSE discussion committee. Went into detail on transmissiblility based on specific studies. Lots of research presented.


Congress people represented.

John Salazar--spoke at a luncheon on Thursday I think it was. Said all the right things, maybe a little too much the right things as some thought he was pandering.

Mike Enzi--Not personally present, but sent a staff member to read a rather lengthy letter.

Barbara Cubin--Not personally present , but sent a staff member who read a letter and also participated in two panels.
 

ocm

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Bill said:
ocm said:
One event that happened that I think was quite significant (from my point of view). A resolution was passed (it still has to pass membership voting but I don't have much doubt about it) that would create a standing committee on private property rights.

One of the panels featured a speaker from the Paragon Foundation. He didn't speak long but he received a standing ovation after speaking.

The crowd seemed very enthusiastic about such things as property rights, patriotism, etc. At the banquet all veterans were recognized.
A resolution was passed to actually create a committee???????WOW! Some business was done then. :lol: :lol:

Sounds like quite the organization and convention. Tell me OCM, when you take out R-Calf and hotel staff and spouses, how large of a "crowd" was there doing business?

Real nice that the vets were recognized but expected. R-Calf likes to play on the patriotism thing as they want to make you believe that if you don't support them you can't really be American.


It is real easy to tell "phony" patriotism from the real thing. This was real.


I'm not going to guess on the size of the crowd. I'm not very good at that. I know that when I tried to get a ticket for a Friday breakfast meeting on two days ahead, they were already booked.

By Saturday afternoon when the last items of business were being conducted the crowd had thinned considerably. This was when Steve Dittmer poked his head in, so I expect he will report that it was poorly attended. For many sessions there were very few empty seats.


So, do you argue that R-CALF is a nothing organization or do you argue that it is powerful enough to close the Canadian border?

FYI- membership (paid up and up to date) as of 12/31 was 17985. If I remember correctly this is only voting members. Does not count non-voting members or members of affiliates.
 

Bill

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ocm said:
Bill said:
ocm said:
One event that happened that I think was quite significant (from my point of view). A resolution was passed (it still has to pass membership voting but I don't have much doubt about it) that would create a standing committee on private property rights.

One of the panels featured a speaker from the Paragon Foundation. He didn't speak long but he received a standing ovation after speaking.

The crowd seemed very enthusiastic about such things as property rights, patriotism, etc. At the banquet all veterans were recognized.
A resolution was passed to actually create a committee???????WOW! Some business was done then. :lol: :lol:

Sounds like quite the organization and convention. Tell me OCM, when you take out R-Calf and hotel staff and spouses, how large of a "crowd" was there doing business?

Real nice that the vets were recognized but expected. R-Calf likes to play on the patriotism thing as they want to make you believe that if you don't support them you can't really be American.


It is real easy to tell "phony" patriotism from the real thing. This was real.

I didn't say their patriotism wasn't real I said they played on it.

I'm not going to guess on the size of the crowd. I'm not very good at that. I know that when I tried to get a ticket for a Friday breakfast meeting on two days ahead, they were already booked.

By Saturday afternoon when the last items of business were being conducted the crowd had thinned considerably. This was when Steve Dittmer poked his head in, so I expect he will report that it was poorly attended. For many sessions there were very few empty seats.


So, do you argue that R-CALF is a nothing organization or do you argue that it is powerful enough to close the Canadian border?

FYI- membership (paid up and up to date) as of 12/31 was 17985. If I remember correctly this is only voting members. Does not count non-voting members or members of affiliates.

I realize you don't have a clue as to how many of their members are voting and how many are associates but they must have lost quite a few before year end then. This from the R-Calf website.

How many members to does R-CALF USA have?

R-CALF USA, as of June 2005, has over 18,000 members in 47 states, as well as 60 state and local producer affiliates.

Who are R-CALF USA members?

R-CALF USA voting members are cow/calf producers and independent stockers and feeders from across the U.S. who own and market cattle and who are serious about ensuring the continued profitability of their industry. R-CALF USA associate members are retired ranchers, concerned citizens, main street businesses – anyone who wishes to support R-CALF USA’s efforts, but does not own cattle.

What’s the difference between voting members and associate members?

Voting members must own cattle and are entitled to voting rights each spring on ballot issues. Voting members don’t have to attend the annual convention to cast their vote. All voting members receive a mail-in ballot for director elections and policy votes.
 

nenmrancher

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Yes MRJ Paragon is based here in NM, the fellow you are thinking of is GB Oliver III. As far as I can tell Paragon and its board of directors is as extreme as anyone you will ever find. The country around Alamagordo where paragon is based is right next to white sands and is pretty much desert.

Thanks for the information OCM I did not know that the panel was a catch all of topics.
 

agman

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ocm said:
One event that happened that I think was quite significant (from my point of view). A resolution was passed (it still has to pass membership voting but I don't have much doubt about it) that would create a standing committee on private property rights.

One of the panels featured a speaker from the Paragon Foundation. He didn't speak long but he received a standing ovation after speaking.

The crowd seemed very enthusiastic about such things as property rights, patriotism, etc. At the banquet all veterans were recognized.

Great idea. I just read in the past week that one of the larger banks will refuse to loan money on any project granted property rights under the recent Eminent Domain ruling.
 

Big Muddy rancher

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R-CALF ever the negative. Instead of bringing in someone to talk about a successful ID Program like Canadas they bring in a Australian to tell how bad their program is. I wonder if theirs is bad or they just hauled someone in that doesn't like it and he told his piont of veiw.. Kinda like Haymaker explaining captive supply.
 

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Big Muddy rancher said:
R-CALF ever the negative. Instead of bringing in someone to talk about a successful ID Program like Canadas they bring in a Australian to tell how bad their program is. I wonder if theirs is bad or they just hauled someone in that doesn't like it and he told his piont of veiw.. Kinda like Haymaker explaining captive supply.

It looks to me like you are the negative one. I pointed out before that there was a guy from USDA there as well. Yet you are the one who focused on the negative. Also on the panel was Neil Hammerschmidt USDA-APHIS Veterinary Services NAIS Coordinator.

As for Canada's ID program, does it require all movements of cattle to be recorded in a database like Australia's and the US proposed system, or is it just a permanent tag?
 

Big Muddy rancher

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ocm said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
R-CALF ever the negative. Instead of bringing in someone to talk about a successful ID Program like Canadas they bring in a Australian to tell how bad their program is. I wonder if theirs is bad or they just hauled someone in that doesn't like it and he told his piont of veiw.. Kinda like Haymaker explaining captive supply.

It looks to me like you are the negative one. I pointed out before that there was a guy from USDA there as well. Yet you are the one who focused on the negative. Also on the panel was Neil Hammerschmidt USDA-APHIS Veterinary Services NAIS Coordinator.

As for Canada's ID program, does it require all movements of cattle to be recorded in a database like Australia's and the US proposed system, or is it just a permanent tag?

See if you had of had a Canadian Rep there you would have known. It makes sense to coordinate our ID systems seeing we do so much trade and since Canada has moved ahead the US should be looking hard at ours. We have a tag but are evolving to RFID and tracking as we work the bugs out. But remember the industry took the Bull by the Horns and started this and run this program.
 

Bill

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ocm said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
R-CALF ever the negative. Instead of bringing in someone to talk about a successful ID Program like Canadas they bring in a Australian to tell how bad their program is. I wonder if theirs is bad or they just hauled someone in that doesn't like it and he told his piont of veiw.. Kinda like Haymaker explaining captive supply.

It looks to me like you are the negative one. I pointed out before that there was a guy from USDA there as well. Yet you are the one who focused on the negative. Also on the panel was Neil Hammerschmidt USDA-APHIS Veterinary Services NAIS Coordinator.

As for Canada's ID program, does it require all movements of cattle to be recorded in a database like Australia's and the US proposed system, or is it just a permanent tag?
What is the US proposed system and why does R-Calf oppose any Natioanl program?
 

Sandhusker

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Bill said:
ocm said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
R-CALF ever the negative. Instead of bringing in someone to talk about a successful ID Program like Canadas they bring in a Australian to tell how bad their program is. I wonder if theirs is bad or they just hauled someone in that doesn't like it and he told his piont of veiw.. Kinda like Haymaker explaining captive supply.

It looks to me like you are the negative one. I pointed out before that there was a guy from USDA there as well. Yet you are the one who focused on the negative. Also on the panel was Neil Hammerschmidt USDA-APHIS Veterinary Services NAIS Coordinator.

As for Canada's ID program, does it require all movements of cattle to be recorded in a database like Australia's and the US proposed system, or is it just a permanent tag?
What is the US proposed system and why does R-Calf oppose any Natioanl program?

R-CALF is not opposed to any national program. I would say they are highly skeptical, however. R-CALF's position is they can't sign on to the proposed program because there are so many unanswered questions that need to be addressed. Nobody knows how much it will cost, who will run it, or why we even need it. There's just too much up in the air yet to even know what it is to be for or against.
 

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