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R-Calf Puts Everyone On Tightrope

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OldDog/NewTricks

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R-CALF Puts Everyone On Tightrope Again
No New Science, More Scare Tactics, More Distortions, More Risk for the Beef Industry
Colorado Springs, CO July12, 2005

This edition refers to a court paper filed with the Eighth District Court in Billings regarding R-CALF's lawsuit against USDA.
Because the person filing the declaration is a Nobel Prize winner, Dr. Stanley Prusiner's filing with the District Court in Billings in support of R-CALF is getting some attention. But a reading of his declaration leads one to wonder if a noted laboratory researcher is the right person to be advising public policy makers on animal health regulations, public health policy and trade policy.

And right or wrong, his call for 100 percent testing is cast in a bad light, given his mention of his testing company twice and the detailed explanation of his company's test methods, results and that his tests are "available commercially." Interestingly, a check of the list of APHIS-approved tests shows Prusiner's test has not been licensed by APHIS (PR1).

It is also interesting to notice the pattern of the "name" personalities the Liberal Activist Groups (LAG) have used to bolster their positions. Laurence Tribe, a well-known constitutional lawyer, was chosen to represent the LMA-WORC in the suit against the checkoff. Most likely with either the explicit permission of his clients or their agreement to look the other way, he used the opportunity to espouse his animal "rights" cause and anti- vivisectionist views on the steps of the Supreme Court. Prusiner gets to use his time in the spotlight to do an informational plug for his company and its tests.

All of Prusiner's professional work has been in the lab or as a professor of human neurology and virology. Both positions emphasize the importance of proving hypotheses using scientific data. Yet he appears to make assumptions without providing data to justify them, does not spell out his assumptions or makes assumptions about animal diseases and human diseases that do not jibe with real experiences.

For example, Prusiner said "...there is no reason to believe that BSE prions in cattle behave differently from those in other mammals..." Yet real-world experience has shown all the TSE's behave somewhat differently in different species. In addition, Prusiner himself points out that many researchers believe there is a "species barrier," meaning humans are less susceptible to the BSE prions than cattle. Yet he goes on to say that there is not enough information to say one way or another.

He cites findings of prions in various body locations in lab animals like mice and hamsters, but no incidents of finding prions in the location most germane to this whole case - beef muscle tissue. He completely ignores that subject, suggesting that he cannot contradict existing research -- which has never found BSE prions in beef muscle tissue.
He also attributes some TSE cases to "genetic mutation," without clarifying whether he means genetic DNA mutation between animal generations or whether he means mutations in protein cell replication. No underlying research is cited.

Most ironic is that the discoverer of the organism -- prions -- and someone familiar with the mechanism involved in causing the disease, assigns the blame for "many cases in cattle" to "spontaneous (or sporadic) refolding of a host protein" with no particular trigger, sounding a lot like what non- scientists categorize as, "stuff happens."
Regarding the dosage required to cause infection, Prusiner confusingly refers to the amount as, "very small," "only an approximation" and "unknown." If he claims the amount is unknown, how does he know it is very small? What research does he have to contradict the study published in the British medical journal The Lancet that indicates a lot -- over 3 lbs.-- of infected brain neural tissue, not just tissue with some infectious prions, is required to produce infection (Deslys YES, January, 2005)?

In fact, it would seem that 20 years of experience indicates that either a large dosage and/or certain susceptibilities in animals or humans is necessary for infection to occur at all. The facts that normally only one animal in a whole herd getting the same feed contracts the disease and that only an infinitesimal percentage of the total herd in most countries has been infected would support that view. As for the countries most affected - the UK - a whole combination of events appeared to be required, including human cultural eating habits regarding brains, different slaughter procedures and the heavy use of meat-and-bone meal to substitute for soybean meal, to see higher infection levels.

The bottom line is that science still indicates blanket testing is not necessary and that SRM removal takes away the risk in food safety issues. And it is still critical to understand that they are two different and separate issues. Testing to monitor an animal disease is one issue. The safe processing and consumption of a food product, wherever it was raised or harvested, is another.
But R-CALF continues to prove itself willing to risk consumer confidence in beef, haul in "expert" witnesses to raise questions about beef safety and use whatever scare tactics it can think of to threaten the beef industry's livelihood. They have created a risky and potentially explosive public situation, just to keep out a few percentage points of live and boxed beef supply. Significant damage to regional packers, feeders and ranchers is already permanent. But the more public risk in Billings and Seattle courtrooms is just beginning another dangerous round.

The Agribusiness Freedom Foundation promotes free market principles throughout the agricultural food chain. The AFF believes it is possible to value the traditions and heritage of the past while embracing the future and the changes it brings. The AFF is a communications and educational initiative striving to preserve the freedom of the agricultural food chain to operate and innovate in order to continue the success of American agriculture.
The AFF - freedom watchdog for American agriculture.
Agribusiness Freedom Foundation
AFF: Promoting free market principles throughout the agricultural food chain.
Website: http://www.agribusinessfreedom.org
Readers are encouraged to use this information with credit to AFF. See links below to Forward to a friend or e-mail the author.
 

Sandhusker

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Another release from the one-man show masquerading as a "foundation"? :lol: :lol: When will the "staff" actually "promote free market principles throughout the agricultural food chain"? :shock: When will we see a story on corn, wheat, beans, rice, sugar, hogs, poultry, etc.....? :? Aren't those commodities part of the agricultural food chain? How about a "release" on processers or retailers? :???: Why is every "release" from the "staff" of the "foundation" a rant against R-CALF? :? Could it be the mission statement of the "foundation" is BS? What else is BS? :wink: Are we not supposed to notice the red flag after red flag concerning the actual mission of this "foundation"? :roll:

I think I'll start a foundation and mold it after the AFF. I'll get a big name, impressive mission statement, website, favored tax status so that I can accept "donations" etc... I'll ignore the mission state and "release" what my "donors" send me. I wonder how well this pays? :wink:
 

Bill

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Sandhusker said:
Another release from the one-man show masquerading as a "foundation"? :lol: :lol: When will the "staff" actually "promote free market principles throughout the agricultural food chain"? :shock: When will we see a story on corn, wheat, beans, rice, sugar, hogs, poultry, etc.....? :? Aren't those commodities part of the agricultural food chain? How about a "release" on processers or retailers? :???: Why is every "release" from the "staff" of the "foundation" a rant against R-CALF? :? Could it be the mission statement of the "foundation" is BS? What else is BS? :wink: Are we not supposed to notice the red flag after red flag concerning the actual mission of this "foundation"? :roll:

I think I'll start a foundation and mold it after the AFF. I'll get a big name, impressive mission statement, website, favored tax status so that I can accept "donations" etc... I'll ignore the mission state and "release" what my "donors" send me. I wonder how well this pays? :wink:
Or could it be that Dittmer speaks the truth and you simply can't handle that? :roll: As has been asked over and over and over and over again. Where is he wrong Sandhusker?
 

Sandhusker

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Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
Another release from the one-man show masquerading as a "foundation"? :lol: :lol: When will the "staff" actually "promote free market principles throughout the agricultural food chain"? :shock: When will we see a story on corn, wheat, beans, rice, sugar, hogs, poultry, etc.....? :? Aren't those commodities part of the agricultural food chain? How about a "release" on processers or retailers? :???: Why is every "release" from the "staff" of the "foundation" a rant against R-CALF? :? Could it be the mission statement of the "foundation" is BS? What else is BS? :wink: Are we not supposed to notice the red flag after red flag concerning the actual mission of this "foundation"? :roll:

I think I'll start a foundation and mold it after the AFF. I'll get a big name, impressive mission statement, website, favored tax status so that I can accept "donations" etc... I'll ignore the mission state and "release" what my "donors" send me. I wonder how well this pays? :wink:
Or could it be that Dittmer speaks the truth and you simply can't handle that? :roll: As has been asked over and over and over and over again. Where is he wrong Sandhusker?

Bill, THREE times I've pointed out what a farce this "foundation" is. Each time those who will latch onto him regardless of credibility (or lack thereof) have asked me to post inaccuracies and I subsequently posted some of the more rediculous statements he as made. And now, here we go again......... :roll: How many times do I have to do it?
 

Sandhusker

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Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusher DIVERTS again :roll:

Again...... :roll:

"It has to be obvious to many cattlemen by now that there are people out there who don't want cattlemen to have these options. Nor do they want packers and retailers to have some of their options. Rather than a free American agricultural system, they want a new system with their rules and restrictions. They want people to stay in their pigeonholes and not get involved in other sectors. They and the government would decide things like:

Who would be allowed to own cattle and when

How many packers we need in this country

How big is too big for a packer

How big is too big for a feedyard

How big is too big for a retail chain, or should chains be allowed at all

How much to restrict beef imports to protect the domestic market price

How much export volume and which markets to give up, since restricting imports would cut the number of export trading partners we would have.
Banned would be:


Alliances of ranchers, feeders, breed associations, packers and retailers

Branded beef

Packer/feeder contracts and grids

A group in the drastic minority like R-CALF that wants to see the above kinds of things come to pass has to find some way to get leverage. "

Now, are you going to tell me the proceeding is the gospel truth? This is the guy that you want to quote? :roll:
 

Bill

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Sandhusker said:
Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
Another release from the one-man show masquerading as a "foundation"? :lol: :lol: When will the "staff" actually "promote free market principles throughout the agricultural food chain"? :shock: When will we see a story on corn, wheat, beans, rice, sugar, hogs, poultry, etc.....? :? Aren't those commodities part of the agricultural food chain? How about a "release" on processers or retailers? :???: Why is every "release" from the "staff" of the "foundation" a rant against R-CALF? :? Could it be the mission statement of the "foundation" is BS? What else is BS? :wink: Are we not supposed to notice the red flag after red flag concerning the actual mission of this "foundation"? :roll:

I think I'll start a foundation and mold it after the AFF. I'll get a big name, impressive mission statement, website, favored tax status so that I can accept "donations" etc... I'll ignore the mission state and "release" what my "donors" send me. I wonder how well this pays? :wink:
Or could it be that Dittmer speaks the truth and you simply can't handle that? :roll: As has been asked over and over and over and over again. Where is he wrong Sandhusker?

Bill, THREE times I've pointed out what a farce this "foundation" is. Each time those who will latch onto him regardless of credibility (or lack thereof) have asked me to post inaccuracies and I subsequently posted some of the more rediculous statements he as made. And now, here we go again......... :roll: How many times do I have to do it?
Dittmer has continually pointed out R-Calf's lies and misinformation regarding Canada and the border closure. Not once have you proven him wrong in his statements.
 

cowsense

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Sandhusker......Try and discredit anything that Dittmer has wrote: you can't do it! DIVERSION doesn't stand up against the truth!
 

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cowsense said:
Sandhusker......Try and discredit anything that Dittmer has wrote: you can't do it! DIVERSION doesn't stand up against the truth!


I actually have to discredit his statement that R-CALF is against branded products? NOBODY is against branded products! :lol: You guys have lost all sense of reason.
 

Tam

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Sandhusker said:
cowsense said:
Sandhusker......Try and discredit anything that Dittmer has wrote: you can't do it! DIVERSION doesn't stand up against the truth!


I actually have to discredit his statement that R-CALF is against branded products? NOBODY is against branded products! :lol: You guys have lost all sense of reason.

WOW one for Sandhusker all other story lines go to Dittmer. Would you like to discredit anything the man has written in the past say three months. The only thing you have ever got for a defence of your claims is the same old story about branded products how about proving him wrong about what was posted here in the article that started this thread. Or any of the other threads that you claimed he was lieing in and you brought up that same old story. We are waiting Sandhusker :roll:
 
A

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Sandman: "I actually have to discredit his statement that R-CALF is against branded products? NOBODY is against branded products!"

Most branded beef programs require certain carcass specifications. Those carcass specifications are rewarded through grid pricing. If grid pricing goes down with the communist packer ban due to the need for a negotiated base price (R-CULT knowing how to market your cattle better than you do), so does branded beef carcass specification pricing

Without branded beef carcass specification pricing, there is no branded beef products.

R-CALF doesn't have to take a position against branded beef to negatively impact branded beef programs thought their misguided efforts to regulate this industry into yesterday.

If history is any indication, R-CALF says a lot of things today that they contradict tommorrow.

I don't think anyone knows for sure what R-CALF stands for, they just stand and bitch.




~SH~
 

Bill

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Sandhusker said:
cowsense said:
Sandhusker......Try and discredit anything that Dittmer has wrote: you can't do it! DIVERSION doesn't stand up against the truth!


I actually have to discredit his statement that R-CALF is against branded products? NOBODY is against branded products! :lol: You guys have lost all sense of reason.
Dittmer has continually pointed out R-Calf's lies and misinformation regarding Canada and the border closure. Not once have you proven him wrong in his statements.
Why don't you answer my post Sandy? Give us examples of where Dittmer has been wrong in what he has written about R-Calf and their approach to keeping the border closed because of BSE.

Here it is again: Give us examples of where Dittmer has been wrong in what he has written about R-Calf and their approach to keeping the border closed because of BSE.Not talking about branded products or who funds him or whether the sun actually comes up in the east on a cloudy day.u]Give us examples of where Dittmer has been wrong in what he has written about R-Calf and their approach to keeping the border closed because of BSE.[/u]
 

Sandhusker

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Tam said:
Sandhusker said:
cowsense said:
Sandhusker......Try and discredit anything that Dittmer has wrote: you can't do it! DIVERSION doesn't stand up against the truth!


I actually have to discredit his statement that R-CALF is against branded products? NOBODY is against branded products! :lol: You guys have lost all sense of reason.

WOW one for Sandhusker all other story lines go to Dittmer. Would you like to discredit anything the man has written in the past say three months. The only thing you have ever got for a defence of your claims is the same old story about branded products how about proving him wrong about what was posted here in the article that started this thread. Or any of the other threads that you claimed he was lieing in and you brought up that same old story. We are waiting Sandhusker :roll:

I just picked one out of that story. I posted the whole thing because the whole thing is nonsense.
 

Sandhusker

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SH, "I don't think anyone knows for sure what R-CALF stands for, they just stand and bitch. "

How ironic. Many of us think the same of you! :wink:
 
A

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Of course you R-CULT clones think the same of me. You think that of anyone who doesn't drink your R-CULT Kool aid.

When it comes to backing your position, that's where you fall short.

Speaking of which, quit diverting and prove Dittmer wrong.

You've already got one stike on you.

Nobody is buying your discrediting divertionary tactics but you.



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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~SH~ said:
Of course you R-CULT clones think the same of me. You think that of anyone who doesn't drink your R-CULT Kool aid.

When it comes to backing your position, that's where you fall short.

Speaking of which, quit diverting and prove Dittmer wrong.

You've already got one stike on you.

Nobody is buying your discrediting divertionary tactics but you.



~SH~

I posted what was wrong. What the heck else do I have to do?
 
A

Anonymous

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You posted what you "BELIEVED" was wrong.

YOU PROVED NOTHING WAS WRONG!

Biased blaming opinions are not facts.



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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~SH~ said:
You posted what you "BELIEVED" was wrong.

YOU PROVED NOTHING WAS WRONG!

Biased blaming opinions are not facts.



~SH~

We've been thru this before........ how the heck can I prove that somebody didn't say something? :roll:
 

Bill

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Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
cowsense said:
Sandhusker......Try and discredit anything that Dittmer has wrote: you can't do it! DIVERSION doesn't stand up against the truth!


I actually have to discredit his statement that R-CALF is against branded products? NOBODY is against branded products! :lol: You guys have lost all sense of reason.
Dittmer has continually pointed out R-Calf's lies and misinformation regarding Canada and the border closure. Not once have you proven him wrong in his statements.
Why don't you answer my post Sandy? Give us examples of where Dittmer has been wrong in what he has written about R-Calf and their approach to keeping the border closed because of BSE.

Here it is again: Give us examples of where Dittmer has been wrong in what he has written about R-Calf and their approach to keeping the border closed because of BSE.Not talking about branded products or who funds him or whether the sun actually comes up in the east on a cloudy day.u]Give us examples of where Dittmer has been wrong in what he has written about R-Calf and their approach to keeping the border closed because of BSE.[/u]
Can't find those example huh Sandhusker? :roll: We have been waiting for months for you to come up with them. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Sandhusker

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Bill said:
Bill said:
Sandhusker said:
I actually have to discredit his statement that R-CALF is against branded products? NOBODY is against branded products! :lol: You guys have lost all sense of reason.
Dittmer has continually pointed out R-Calf's lies and misinformation regarding Canada and the border closure. Not once have you proven him wrong in his statements.
Why don't you answer my post Sandy? Give us examples of where Dittmer has been wrong in what he has written about R-Calf and their approach to keeping the border closed because of BSE.

Here it is again: Give us examples of where Dittmer has been wrong in what he has written about R-Calf and their approach to keeping the border closed because of BSE.Not talking about branded products or who funds him or whether the sun actually comes up in the east on a cloudy day.u]Give us examples of where Dittmer has been wrong in what he has written about R-Calf and their approach to keeping the border closed because of BSE.[/u]
Can't find those example huh Sandhusker? :roll: We have been waiting for months for you to come up with them. :lol: :lol: :lol:[/quote

You post whatever you want to from him and we'll chew the fat.
 

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