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radicalism in Europe (warning graphic pictures and content.

Is Steve a bigot

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Steve

Well-known member
hypo has made out that the Ukraines' right is an extreme far right party..

but without seeing the breakaways are and talking to their people you can get a VERY distorted opinion of them..

I see and talk with a Russian friend often. and between him and the many others that have settle locally.. and the people I know in Europe it is very complex and hard to adequately explain..

there is a side that is very radical.. and bordering that are old world hard heads..

they remind me of staunch union guys..

on the far extreme right.. you have neo-nazis. but they are also on the left and in the center.. they are just trouble.. thugs.. and they are ALL over Europe.. and I will show a bit more about them in this thread later..
these thugs would make you question humanity. but they do not have much of a party allegiance beyond wanting to show up for trouble..


then you have the hard heads.. knuckleheads. most of the people Hypo listed would fit into this category. they are a generation behind..
they can be crude.. we all knew someone growing up like this.. told the black jokes. the Jewish jokes.. made what we would call inappropriate comments..

for the most part we cringed when they made the comment but knew they were hardworking decent people otherwise..

well that is where these countries are now in their development..

it isn't right... the inappropriate comments are insulting..

I don't know the people Hypo and his "paper" painted as radicals..

in Europe and especially in the breakaways they are not radical..

hard heads.. thugs.. someone you would expect to see at a union rally yes..

but by the research and from talking to the people who live there.. they are not what they are being made out to be..

to say well over 40% of the Ukraine is far right radical neo nazis is insulting to them ..

the Ukrainians and Russians I know are a bit hard headed.. and can make me cringe.. but I also know they are trying to get caught up..

I showed actual proof that some of their actions would defy logic..

their actions .. banning nazi symbols for instance shows an effort to stamp out that element as they know it is wrong..

but they say some incredibly insensitive stuff..

but to equate them to factions that committed atrocities during WWII is just as insensitive and offensive..


for him to find around 12 knucklehead.. several of which said incredible stupid stuff. and say the right in the Ukraine is neo nazis is wrong

ask your self.. have you ever told an ethnic joke.. a Jewish. priest joke,.
or what about made an stupid racial comment without thinking..

I have..









another thing to consider before you judge the former soviet countries.

GOD kept Moses and his people in the desert for forty years..

when you look at how it took a generation for change to set in. you start to see the wisdom of our LORD

the Israelis had forgotten their GOD in Egypt. they had worshiped idols of all sorts.

they were slaves.. and acted like slaves even when free..

they had trouble with their freedom ..

had Moses been led to Israel in a few weeks and turned them loose..

many would have taken on their old lives.. either being a slave or a master and worshiping idols again.. it is not that they were bad people

they just didn't know any better.

when I see and talk to the Russians, people from Belarus . the Ukraine. ect..

around here we often just say from the breakaways..

they were stripped of their god.. enslaved in communism..

and like the Israelis longed for freedom but didn't understand the responsibility freedom requires..

these people have only been FREE for 21 years.. they are trying.. a few will never learn..

but for the most part they are good decent people..

given time.. they will catch up.. but it will take generation at least..

I know these people.. I talk to them.. it is like stepping into the past..
but in a nice way.. they aren't PC.. they laugh from the belly.
a hearty laugh.. something you just don't see enough of these days.
they work hard and smile.


They cherish what we have.. and want freedom for their children

to see this love for what we stand for would bring tears to a grown man.


One thing I know in my heart and sole as a GOD fearing Christian..
the people I know and have met over the years are NOT like Hypo described..
each and everyone could be "accused of the same crud language..
but so could most of US.. myself included.


it isn't right but WE are trying..

if you want to call the people of the breakaways bigots. . well I guess I am one as well..

well I said my piece.. let the blameless cast the first stone..


but




Don't confuse them with the radicals in Europe..
I will show you those thugs.. they have NO god, NO party.. NO allegiance and they make a skinhead look like a cuddly unkempt little guy..and are anti American anti establishment.. .
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
I'm not sure what the poll is all about, but Steve, if these folks were the Leaders of the Tea Party, would you remain associated with them?

http://www.academia.edu/2461970/_Defending_the_Interests_of_the_Ukrainians_The_Empowerment_of_the_Svoboda_Party


Maybe you guys/gals saw the video in 2012...the first day in parliament, these guys started a brawl with the another party.



Tiagnybok is the leader of the party and was supposed to have changed a new leaf, in 2004. It was all BS, to garner support and deflect attention...

In 2005, Tiagnybok signed a petition calling for a ban of all Jewish organizations in Ukraine, and on July 5 that year, the Kyiv newspaper
Delovaia Gazeta reported that Tiagnybok had urged the introduction of quotas for foreign-born Ukrainians in the parliament, according to their representation in the population. He also supported the addition of the nationality clause in passports, because “hidden Jews” rule the country and must be exposed. On November 6, 2005, during a meeting with electors in Busk (Lviv Oblast), Tiagnybok accused the regime of favoring Jews over Ukrainians, effectively allowing them to plunder Ukraine.

In May 2007, during an event held by a company selling kosher ice cream in Lviv, a group of youths headed by Tiagnybok smashed ice cream stands and shouted antisemitic insults. Several of them were detained by the police, but released shortly afterward.
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
I'm not sure what the poll is all about, but Steve, if these folks were on the Leaders of the Tea Party, would you remain associated with them?

http://www.academia.edu/2461970/_Defending_the_Interests_of_the_Ukrainians_The_Empowerment_of_the_Svoboda_Party




Tiagnybok is the leader of the party and was supposed to have changed a new leaf, in 2004. It was all BS, to garner support and deflect attention...

In 2005, Tiagnybok signed a petition calling for a ban of all Jewish organizationsin Ukraine, and on July 5 that year, the Kyiv newspaper
Delovaia Gazeta reported that Tiagnybok had urged the introduction of quotas for foreign-born Ukrainiansin the parliament, according to their representation in the population. He alsosupported the addition of the nationality clause in passports, because “hidden Jews” rule the country and must be exposed. On November 6, 2005, during ameeting with electors in Busk (Lviv Oblast), Tiagnybok accused the regime of favoring Jews over Ukrainians, effectively allowing them to plunder Ukraine.

In May 2007, during an event held by a company selling kosher ice cream in Lviv, a group of youths headed by Tiagnybok smashed ice cream stands and shoutedantisemitic insults. Several of them were detained by the police, but releasedshortly afterward.

NO I would run them out of town..
I would denounce them and make sure everyone knew it
because if they were TEA party they grew up here and know better


I have said some of these guys are scum this guy was not one I looked up or did any research on and you know that.

I have also shown that not everyone is what they are made out to be..

the three or four I checked have accusations and actions that defy logic..

one one hand they are neo nazi.. bigots

and one the other their actions do not show that same bigotry.. in fact it shows the opposite.





just answer one question.. where have you traveled to.

Africa?

Russia, the breakaways?

Asia?

middle east?

have you seen Cherry creek South Dakota?
every state in our union and yours?

have you seen the grime of these places.. ?

I have,.. but I have also seen the beauty.
and most of the beauty is in the faces of the good people
they ain't pretty.. but they for the most part are good people

from pulling a calf to watching a country struggle it is all good..





I have pandered and answered almost every question you asked.. but so far.. you haven't even answered a few..

where have your travels taken you?
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
I have said some of these guys are scum this guy was not one I looked up or did any research on and you know that.

edited to ask a question: Are you saying you never did any research on the guy in the last quote above?


Steve said:
There are NO members of the Svoboda

and have not been since 2004
February 2004 with the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader.[2] Tyahnybok made significant efforts to moderate the party's extremist image.[46] The party not only replaced its name, but also abandoned the "I + N" ("Idea Natsii" ukr. "idea of a nation") Wolfsangel logo (a symbol popular among neo-Nazi groups)

the correct party name is.

All-Ukrainian Union
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
I have said some of these guys are scum this guy was not one I looked up or did any research on and you know that.

edited to ask a question: Are you saying you never did any research on the guy in the last quote above?


Steve said:
There are NO members of the Svoboda

and have not been since 2004
February 2004 with the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader.[2] Tyahnybok made significant efforts to moderate the party's extremist image.[46] The party not only replaced its name, but also abandoned the "I + N" ("Idea Natsii" ukr. "idea of a nation") Wolfsangel logo (a symbol popular among neo-Nazi groups)

the correct party name is.

All-Ukrainian Union

if that quote is all you can find..

my comment was clearly directed towards the correct party name

but keep digging.. I am sure that isn't the only time he was mentioned.

I have a piece of paper on my desk with the names and the basics on the ones I researched. (notes) he isn't on it..



all I know about him is what was posted on here.
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Steve said:
all I know about him is what was posted on here.

So you didn't even research the Party leader, that makes sense...

I posted the quote about him half dozen times.. you posted it as well..

it was know from the beginning he was far right..

the quotes seemed fair.. and in everything you posted said about the same..

I referenced him a half dozen times as the one member of the original group..

what really needs to be said about him... he joined a far right group. and moderated the new group so it could win elections..

you make it out like the whole country is neo nazi..

it has it's elements.. and as I said.. appears to trying to moderate..

Europe and the Russia breakaways are ALL having problems with neo naziism..

this isn't a new OMG revelation..

if they want to address it they needs to separate the hooligans from the actual Neo nazis..

I realize this may sound crazy. but there is a difference

you keep looking at it from our view and standards.. for as much as Europe makes out to be a liberal mecca..

it is far worse with this then anyone could imagine..

but it is two separate problems..

the neo nazis are two distinct groups as well by the look of it..

the older soviet era and the new thug..

you can throw them all in one pot like your are doing with the far right parties in the Ukraine.. but then you miss the ability to do anything about it..

it is not a Ukraine problem it is a Europe problem..

right now two things would stem it..

prisons.. which liberal Europe is not going to build..
so the thugs strike.. laugh. go to work, school, or moms' couch.
and then do it again..

or jobs.. which .. liberal Europe is finally starting to address.



but there is a third option that seems to repulsive to you and most others


and that is move them to the left a bit.. moderate them.. and reintegrate them back into the mainstream..

and the party you complain so much about is doing it. not as well as we would like or by our standards..



but by we can't use our standards on a former soviet country..

you posted a manifesto earlier

all their "stated" goals seem fairly mainstream..

as they grow as a state more of what you are complaining about now will become unacceptable.

and those involved will have to change or get tossed out..

but that takes time..


for as much of a slug and scum bucket Tyahnybok he is moving not only himself to the left.. but the movement.
The Social-National Party of Ukraine changed its name to the All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda" in February 2004 with the arrival of Oleh Tyahnybok as party leader.[2]

Tyahnybok made significant efforts to moderate the party's extremist image.[39] The party not only replaced its name, but also abandoned the "I + N" ("Idea Natsii" ukr. "idea of a nation") Wolfsangel logo (a symbol popular among neo-Nazi groups)[2][27] with a three-fingered hand reminiscent of the 'Tryzub' pro-independence gesture of the late 1980s.[27] Svoboda also pushed neo-Nazi and other radical groups out the party,[40] distancing itself from its neofascist past while retaining the support of extreme nationalists.[39]

you highlighted the bad.. sure he is a slug. but he is doing a bit of good.. I looked at the good that came out of it..

it is a step.. a small one but a step in the right direction..



you can move them to
 

Steve

Well-known member
Steve said:
I have pandered and answered almost every question you asked.. but so far.. you haven't even answered a few..

where have your travels taken you?

care to answer?

I don't expect an answer.. but given that you seemed to have to know why I claimed a bit of an understanding of Europe It is only fair.

or are you just going to ignore it like OT..

the reason I ask is everything you present is papers. text.. no real grasp of the fact Eastern Europe is not like us yet.

it is easy to judge when you look at a video.. or read a "paper" but until you talk to the people and see not only where they are coming from.. but where they want to go.. you will never be able to understand them or help them.




So where have your travels taken you.
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
Steve,

I haven't been able to read each and everything. But, I'd pose the following to think about. We are called to look at situations and make decisions, that isn't eternal judgement of an individual.

I don't have to travel to 1930's Germany to know that Hitler was evil. I don't have to travel the world to know that the desire to rid a population of a race is evil.

History of an area and people is important. Slavery hasn't occurred in the US since before the Holocaust but we deal with the repercussions to this day. Europe is not exempt. The hatred of Jews is as old as the Jews themselves. From what I've seen of your thoughts, you know this to be true.

Now, consider that it doesn't require the entire nation to hate, but it only requires them to NOT stop the ones that do.

Hitler didn't rise to power by announcing his goal of the gas chamber to the general public. He talked about a pure people, a strong nation. Many in Germany didn't believe the Holocaust even occurred when it was right out there back door.

Currently we are ran by radicals. What have we done about it? Good soldiers are killed daily because of the radical ideology of these people. Good people are about to freeze. Good people are about go hungry. Good people are about to die because of a lack of health care. Does the majority want this?????? But what have we done about it? Not a damn thing. That's what.

"For evil to triumph, all it takes is for good people to do nothing"
 

Steve

Well-known member
The premise this whole debate started with was this

West sides with neo-Nazis ... source RT

US, NATO, CIA supporting nazis in Ukraine project ... source RT

I objected to points such as that

and that was not the only ones or the worse of them.. posts had comments such as Ukraine's is nazi Germany's first and most faithful allie in WWII



and adamantly defended the Ukrainian citizens.. but this was lost in the debate because in trying to show hypo that it is a minority and we are NOT siding with neo nazis

he made it about a dozen or so people in their government.. several "accusations" that were presented as facts were not true

Many of" those accusations" and could easily be tied back to Russian media and a "paper"


If am going to withdraw my support for a people which may condemn them to soviet rule. I would only do so based on hard facts., not over blown accusations.

and while most of the hardliners in the start up of that party are racist and vile.. even those hardliners wanted to moderate the party and move it away from it's extreme views.



Steve



I will break one of the posted statement down separately to show how inflammatory the comments were.
 

Steve

Well-known member
here is one of the inflammatory comments from the "paper" hypo posted..

it is of an atrocity during WWII that happened in the Ukraine

For example, in Lviv(Lwów), where in the summer of 1941 Ukrainian nationalists and members of the UPA [Ukrainian Insurgent Army] murdered and raped Jews on the streets,

In Lviv Svoboda received 50 percent of the votes.
http://www.academia.edu/2461970/_Defending_the_Interests_of_the_Ukrainians_The_Empowerment_of_the_Svoboda_Party

and that style of connection and comment was presented though-out the discussion.

What happened in WWII was disgusting to say the least. and ultra nationalism is rampant in Europe
but it doesn't mean 50% of the people in the Ukraine are neo nazis or that the US supports neo nazis






but what was lost in all this was that all this is just an attempt to use propaganda to smear the US and the Ukraine

guilt by association.. is the technical term.. and it is the first step towards bigotry.. and a great headline.

Here is Russia's propaganda point: "The Ukraine is neo nazis,.. the US supports neo nazis,..

And that leads to the creation of the headline from RT and carried around the world.
West sides with neo-nazis ... source RT

US, NATO, CIA supporting nazis in Ukraine project ... source RT

That was my problem with all the articles and comments HYPO was posting. it is just propaganda.

everyone of his articles, comments and papers had the same theme.. heck he even used the same style tactic to compare the US to Russia, . siding with Russia

so I objected.. looking back.. my tactic was bad.. but when you deal with manipulative person such as hypo.. I guess that can happen.






and before you judge me, or the 50% of the people in Lviv..
consider this case of guilt by association
The Wounded Knee Massacre occurred on December 29, 1890,[4] near Wounded Knee Creek (Lakota: Čhaŋkpé Ópi Wakpála) on the Lakota Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in the U.S. state of South Dakota.

In all, 84 men, 44 women, and 18 children reportedly died on the field, while at least seven Lakota were mortally wounded.

I grew up in South Dakota.. and they are by far some of the most decent people you could ever come across..

but I know I could find a few dozen racists who hate Indians.. some would actually be in government positions.

and I know I have heard about every racial comment toward the Indians over the years that I could easily find plenty of anecdotal accounts of racial comments and behavior towards the Indians..

and many of those comments would be vile and disgusting.. and some of those came out of the mouth of republicans living in South Dakota.

with that background. according to the"paper" and hypo's standard for the Ukraine people this could be said about South Dakota conservatives.

The Wounded Knee Massacre occurred on December 29, 1890,[4] near Wounded Knee Creek (Lakota: Čhaŋkpé Ópi Wakpála) on the Lakota Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in the U.S. state of South Dakota.

In all, 84 men, 44 women, and 18 children reportedly died on the field, while at least seven Lakota were mortally wounded. In that same state in the 2012 presidential elections 57% of the people voted for the republican party.

So by the standard used in judging the Ukraine.. 57% of the people of South Dakota are anti-Indian and promote that attitude.

and All of US know this isn't true.. can I dig and find awful examples of racism against Indians living in South Dakota.





yes
Native American rancher, Raymond Yellow Thunder, in 1972 was attacked by racists, stripped from the waste down, and forced into an American Legion bar where people made fun of him, forced him to dance, and put cigarettes out on him. Raymond was then taken out back, beaten nearly to his death, and stuffed into the trunk of a car where he died.

In South Dakota, the police brutality and hate crimes carried out by law enforcement have been documented for at least 40 years. It was the cry for justice here that led the American Indian Movement to make its stand on Pine Ridge and ultimately at Wounded Knee. Now, north of Rapid City, an Oglala Lakota youth, Christopher Capps, 22, has been shot and killed by a Pennington County Sheriff Deputy. Deputy Dave Olson shot Christopher repeatedly at close range in a field about three miles north of Rapid City.

I can even cite a "paper'
“We know from hearings in Montana, New Mexico and South Dakota that hate crimes are continuing to happen against Native Americans, mostly in border towns near our reservations,” he said, citing a soon-to-be released report developed by the U.S. Civil Rights Commission that compiled testimony about hate crimes from hundreds of Americans Indians.

another
Moreover, let's look at how Native people are treated in other respects in South Dakota. A good start is the state's reputation among Indian people nationally. In my conversations with other Native Americans, South Dakota is referred to as the most "redneck" state in the entire country because of its treatment of American Indians. Native Americans from there relate stories of how they are followed inside grocery stores by employees because it is thought they are going to "steal a pack of meat."

The pervasive racism is exhibited at basketball games when it's Native teams vs. white players. White cheerleaders gyrate with signs saying that Indian students graduate "from high school to go to prison."

it isn't right.. but it also isn't because of the wounded Knee massacre.





[/quote]
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
I say this in earnest and I hope you can take a step back for a minute and look at what I'm saying.

Who have we sided with in Egypt, in Libya, in Syria? It hasn't been with the Little Sisters of the Poor. These groups are just as if not more vial than any neo-natzi. They are all based on evil and derived from hate, and pride. They all call for the annihilation of groups different from themselves; they consider themselves supreme and the only ones worthy of living; and they call for a complete lack of freedom of religion, speech and on down the line. Neo-natzi=Muslim Brothehood.

We have a war on Christianity at home- look at what this administration has done to Catholics with the forced birth control issue. Preachers have been threatened with speaking out against homosexuality of losing their non-profit status. Look at what has occurred in the military- it is in black and white- who is considered the terrorist? This administration is looking to advance it's agenda at whatever cost.

This is the US's resources being used against the majority of America's morals at home and abroad.

It is anti-American- that is the point. I can't tell you what every European is thinking but election results are election results. And heads of parties are heads of parties. Not every democrat wants to back the Muslim Brotherhood, but we are and have. That is what they elected. Saying that is not smearing the US. Currently we've done more to hurt our allies and Israel than at any time since WWII. It is against everything I stand for and we will likely pay for it. But it is happening.

I'm way more worried about destruction from within than Russia external. They don't need propaganda, they just need to report on what we're doing. That is plenty. And to ruin us, all they have to do is stand back and watch us burn. We should be pissed at the commies. But we should be pissed that they infiltrated our schools, colleges and now political system.

I agree with a lot of what you say and enjoy your east coast local view point. But I think you may be reading more into this than necessary. If you disagree- I sure support your right to do so. I'm not sure that many regimes we've empowered throughout the world lately would.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Who have we sided with in Egypt, in Libya, in Syria? It hasn't been with the Little Sisters of the Poor

this is tough to answer.. so let me start with.. Obama is an idiot..

the protestors in those countries wanted freedom..

and our countries' leaders misguided efforts gave it to them briefly
before the old mentality set back in and they elected the same thug they just got rid of..

I would still side with the good decent people of Egypt and Libya, that led those protests.
but with Obama being a complete idiot.. we as a country should not get involved.



and now let me explain why.. hope fully I can do it without getting to long winded.

in all my travels and life.. one thing has always come true... for every jackass, there are at least another ten good decent people.

I have seen hate.. but even in the worst situations I have seen compassion that far outweighed the hate.

We have one of the most unique countries on the planet. (Canadians and Australians as well ) the difference can't be easily explained.
We know it isn't US white people as we can be just as vile and brutal as the other races



Even for as backward and evil as some folk seem,.. MOST just want what we have. a freedom that is unique


then there is my Moses example.. it takes along time to set a people free.. about a generation..

and that was after some pretty serious culling..

God started out taking all the Jews. but not all followed. Not all were worthy. but they chose to turn away.

so imagine if you can't cull out the scum off the bottom and keep the cream.. it is going to take awhile..



I think we could have kept Iraq on course, but we would have to be there for a long time.. a generation..

Afghanistan.. what can I say that place needs some serious culling first and alot more time.

but you CAN'T go in meddle, topple the government and think things will just fix themselves..
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
context...

For example, in Lviv(Lwów), where in the summer of 1941 Ukrainian nationalists and members of the UPA [Ukrainian Insurgent Army] murdered and raped Jews on the streets, Svoboda received 50 percent of the votes. On many occasions, members of Svododa have extolled the killers as heroes.

In April 2009, posters praising the SSGalichina Division [14 Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS galizische] hung by the Lviv branch of Svoboda appeared on the streets of the city. The posters featured the division’s symbol and included the words “Ukrainian Galichina Division—They Defended Ukraine.”

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=646167#646167
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Steve said:
The premise this whole debate started with was this

West sides with neo-Nazis ... source RT

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And those are Steve's facts, so you better agree with them, or he'll call you names, in an attempt to silence you...

What a load of manure...

Steve is obviously all about truth and facts...


Steve? In all honesty, do you really think the members of Ranchers are that stupid? Do you think you can pass that off as "truth", without others noticing?
 

Steve

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Steve said:
The premise this whole debate started with was this

West sides with neo-Nazis ... source RT

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And those are Steve's facts, so you better agree with them, or he'll call you names, in an attempt to silence you...

What a load of manure...

Steve is obviously all about truth and facts...


Steve? In all honesty, do you really think the members of Ranchers are that stupid? Do you think you can pass that off as "truth", without others noticing?

and here we go again.. another snotty sarcastic snarky remark..

you know through this whole argument I have put up with your sarcasm, innuedo, insinuations, gotchas, smears, snide remarks, twisting comments, continually pushed buttons to say the least,..

I may have called you a few names and been a bit blunt..
and after looking back at it .. you called names,.. there are several places where you slipped "names" in.. subtle but they are there.

but really is "sarcasm, innuendo , insinuations, gotchas, twisting comments and distorting what I said", .. any different?

Sure you veiled your insults in "examples" as you called them..
but over the course of this you have insulted me, my country and made sure you got in any smear and distortion you could in.

you say I called you a lier.. yes I did.. because you did.

Then you took some moral high ground and claimed you didn't do the same

nope you prettied it up a bit
you are mixing up your fallacies.
still means the same thing..





and what about how you dealt with the issues

constantly changing sides, it was like arguing with a wet noodle

You would say one thing in one thread and in another thread you would say that wasn't what you said.

Then said you didn’t say that / believe it.. ect

here is ONE example and there are alot..
IMO, Russia has yet to use "force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine"

Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:02 am
they have the right to house military in Crimea. How is that an invasion

Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:58 pm
not sure I have stated that I do not believe Russia invaded
wet noodle. or a childish game?




I am not sure what you intent was is but it is annoying.. to say the least.

did I fall into your trap.. yes.. I misjudged you I thought you were honestly "discussing an issue"..
boy was I wrong.


No I should have realized right away you were just playing games..
and when I did..I threw in the towel.. that was now two days ago.
but you didn't stop

you still haven't


I knew you wouldn't let it go.. why would you .. it is your game..

you just keep prodding with snotty comments..



I would say grow up .. but I doubt you ever would..



but that isn't the worst part.. you don't care about the people just the argument..

Sept 11th isn't a tragedy is is something you want to debate..

and it shows in you comments.

take this snotty comment
We should never believe Russians...

..especially when they warn us about fascist terrorists. Especially the type that would bomb the Boston marathon...

gee,. great you made a point. and you must have thought you were real clever.

but you know what I saw.. I saw you make fun of the people that day, the boy that died.. all the people that are maimed for life.
I hope that "point" in you "game" was worth it..


and all though it you kept insinuating I am a bigot.

why because I looked for the good out of people I don't particularly like.

and was a realist on a situation?



I even tried to find some good in you but every time I thought I did. you posted some snotty sarcastic comment.



I saw how you manipulated and twisted things before..

but I really never realized how manipulative you were until now..

I saw how you wouldn't let the Sept 11th tragedy rest.. you kept having to pick at it. for you it seems like the death of 2,996 is a just discussion.
you can't let it go..

so why would you stop your "discussion" aimed at me?


now I will answer the question you asked. just as I have the last few times you couldn't let it go.

No I don't think the people at ranchers are stupid.. nor pawns or people to pit against each other. They are good decent people.

I am also sure they will see that you can't let it go.. and that each time I honestly try to respond you just get nastier and snottier.

I am sure they will see we had an argument.. I probably lost my temper abit with all the crap you threw out,.. and should have just dropped in after the first day.. that part of the blame for not stepping out is on me..



I don't like you, I don't respect you anymore, probably never will ,
but as I stated after you asked the last question. I disagree with your point.. whether it be on Sept 11th or the Ukraine ,.. but if you believe it.. I can accept that.

but if you don't believe it,.. .. and you can't let this go.
then you have a problem.

I am honestly sorry if I hurt your feelings., so sorry I re-read everything that was posted. to see if I stepped over the line .. but it was all in there, the sarcasm, innuendo, insinuations, gotchas, smears, snide, twisted comments,

you can keep making them.. nothing I have done has stopped you yet. I answered your questions. I backed off , I stated I conceded, threw the towel in..

but you keep throwing the snide comments and insults out..

I really don't care how you take this.. whether you stop or not..
but your trying to drag everyone else in now to make a judgement is just pathetic.

Steve
 
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