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Raising taxes in SD

Faster horses

Well-known member
I think there are enough folks here from SD that this might be of
interest. If I need to move it to PB, I will, but I thought it would
get more readership here.


Thursday, February 3, 2011



(Pierre) – Congratulations! Thanks to your work, the first tax hike bill was soundly defeated this morning.


SB 154 would have raised sales tax, and went down in the Senate Education Committee by a vote of 6-1 (you can see the vote by clicking on the bill number above – be sure to thank those who voted against the bill). Committee members reported being deluged in calls and emails to oppose the bill. Thanks for your work!


But the battle is far from over. Three more bills to increase taxes will be up in the Senate State Affairs committee on Monday morning. SB 160 would require sales tax on several kinds of investments, SB 166 would raise taxes on food production by requiring sales tax on farm equipment parts and repairs and SB 174 is another attempt to raise sales tax across the board.


SB 174 is touted as a “temporary” sales tax increase. But as we pointed out earlier, there is no such thing as a “temporary” tax hike. Right now, the legislature is considering another bill (HB 1248) to make permanent a recently passed “temporary” tax increase. It will almost certainly pass.


I’ll be in Pierre on Monday to testify against these tax hikes, but I need your support.

Please take action right away!


ACTION:

Three tax bills will be up for a vote on Monday morning. Please contact the committee members listed below and urge them to vote NO on tax hikes!


Because the Legislature will not be meeting on Friday, email is the best way to contact these members.


Senate State Affairs Committee

Sen. Stanford Adelstein – [email protected]

Sen. Joni Cutler – [email protected]

Sen. Jason Frerichs – [email protected]

Sen. Cooper Garnos – [email protected]

Sen. Bob Gray – [email protected]

Sen. Mark Johnston – [email protected]

Sen. Russell Olson – [email protected]

Sen. Larry Rhoden – [email protected]

Sen. Craig Tieszen – [email protected]

As before, please use the email addresses listed, or click on the Senator’s name to use the online email system. Feel free to use the sample message below to direct your comments.


-------Sample Message--------


Dear Senator,

Please oppose the tax increase bills that will be up in the State Affairs committee soon.


As has already been noted, this is NOT the year to raise taxes on South Dakota families, especially in the present economy. Many of us are tightening our belts. Why should state government be any different?


The claim that SB 174 is a “temporary” tax increase is downright misleading. The current HB 1248 demonstrates that there really is no such thing as a “temporary” tax hike. All it takes is another very simple bill to make a “temporary” tax permanent, and this kind of bill is very easy to pass.


SB 160 and SB 166 also increase taxes by requiring that sales tax be charged on certain investments and on farm equipment parts and repairs. Ultimately, these will simply be passed on to the consumer, and will increase the cost of food in many cases.


Please stand with the people of South Dakota, and remember that you are in Pierre to look out for the interests of the taxpayer.


I respectfully urge you to vote NO on SB 160, SB 166 and SB 174. Thank you for your consideration.


Sincerely,


------------------------------ -----------------


If you want to do more, please contact the Legislators below who are sponsoring these tax increases. Respectfully let them know that you do not appreciate their efforts. For the sake of simplicity, the worst two bills are listed.


Sponsors of SB 174 to raise sales tax

Sen. Stan Adelstein - [email protected]

Sen. Tim Begalka - [email protected]

Sen. Jim Bradford - [email protected]

Sen. Tom Nelson - [email protected]

Sen. Craig Tieszen - [email protected]

Rep. Tad Perry – [email protected]

Rep. Melissa Magstadt – [email protected]

Rep. Steve Street [email protected]

Rep. Charles Turbiville - [email protected]




Sponsors of SB 166 to tax food production

Sen. Eldon Nygaard – [email protected]

Sen. Stan Adelstein - [email protected]

Sen. Dan Lederman – [email protected]

Rep. Jacqueline Sly – [email protected]

Rep. Kevin Killer – [email protected]

Rep. Mark Kirkeby – [email protected]


Thanks for taking action!



For Liberty,




Rip Ryness
Executive Director
South Dakota Campaign for Liberty

P.S. The battle to STOP these tax hikes is not cheap or easy. We’re expending precious resources every day to mobilize the grassroots. Would you chip in $5 or $10 to help?
 

Twister Frost

Well-known member
Sure this looks like a big win, unless you are sitting on the other side of the fence---the schools in South Dakota will be hit with a $40+ million cut. I'm pretty sure those dollars will come from cutting staff and academic programs---not sports like so many like to tout could be cut. A school closeby will need to cut 42 staff---from a staff of 163 (k-12). I believe that school will feel the impact. My school is looking at a couple hundred grand---which is about 8 positions from 40! If you compare SD to other states, you will see we already spend the least of any state on education (4,564 per student) meaning local (property taxes) and federal provide more than the state---even though the state mandates many of our requirements above and beyond the federal, and now we will spend less. At the local level, we cannot handle anymore tax levy increases for education--I realize a sales tax hits everyone and it hits those who are struggling doubly hard, but it is also paid by those who visit our state. Might sound greedy, but those "visitors" use our roads, etc.,
I can forsee the future of this act---a boatload of schools will not make AYP, the Feds will threaten to pull federal funding, and schools will take another hit in aid and the State will throw in a bunch of costly mandates without the necessary funding---again. SD needs to figure out a way to pay for the necessities, and I darn sure believe education is a necessity. Personally, I'd like to see the gambling dollars put where they were promised--in education--but the SD government enjoys that revenue too much. I also have a problem with spending multi-millions for the Science Lab--but it promises 100 jobs when and if it ever gets up and running--60% of those jobs will go to people outside of South Dakota (world-renowned scientists!)
So, Faster Horses, I guess it depends on what end of the receiving line you are on this as to whether this is a win! I don't want new taxes, but our state has a "revenue" problem and it better find a source of revenue. We have doctors talking about reassessing whether they can serve Medicare patients because of the cut it will take in this 10% budget cut, and it has nothing to do with Obamacare.
 

Juan

Well-known member
Twister Frost said:
Sure this looks like a big win, unless you are sitting on the other side of the fence---the schools in South Dakota will be hit with a $40+ million cut. I'm pretty sure those dollars will come from cutting staff and academic programs---not sports like so many like to tout could be cut. A school closeby will need to cut 42 staff---from a staff of 163 (k-12). I believe that school will feel the impact. My school is looking at a couple hundred grand---which is about 8 positions from 40! If you compare SD to other states, you will see we already spend the least of any state on education (4,564 per student) meaning local (property taxes) and federal provide more than the state---even though the state mandates many of our requirements above and beyond the federal, and now we will spend less. At the local level, we cannot handle anymore tax levy increases for education--I realize a sales tax hits everyone and it hits those who are struggling doubly hard, but it is also paid by those who visit our state. Might sound greedy, but those "visitors" use our roads, etc.,
I can forsee the future of this act---a boatload of schools will not make AYP, the Feds will threaten to pull federal funding, and schools will take another hit in aid and the State will throw in a bunch of costly mandates without the necessary funding---again. SD needs to figure out a way to pay for the necessities, and I darn sure believe education is a necessity. Personally, I'd like to see the gambling dollars put where they were promised--in education--but the SD government enjoys that revenue too much. I also have a problem with spending multi-millions for the Science Lab--but it promises 100 jobs when and if it ever gets up and running--60% of those jobs will go to people outside of South Dakota (world-renowned scientists!)
So, Faster Horses, I guess it depends on what end of the receiving line you are on this as to whether this is a win! I don't want new taxes, but our state has a "revenue" problem and it better find a source of revenue. We have doctors talking about reassessing whether they can serve Medicare patients because of the cut it will take in this 10% budget cut, and it has nothing to do with Obamacare.
tipical liberal response
 

Clarencen

Well-known member
Twister Frost is looking out for his own job securiy. I don't hold that against him, we all do that.


First I will say, If we want more services from government, we have to find ways to pay for them. It looks like tough times ahead, we will all have to find ways to reduce expenses. We pay enough for taxes already. My property tax (land tax) went up nearly 14% this year. When our property increases value, and the things we buy cost more it automaticly increases our tax. It looks like with this increase, it could be made to balance out without a tax increase.

We must find ways to cut costs. Something like 70% of our taxes goes to education, so this is one of theplaces to cut unnecessary spending. Schools need to take take a closer look at thei budgets. While I was never really a sports minded person, when I went to school I went to get an education not to get into sports. Still I believe sports are important. But do we have to schedule sports and other activities clear across the state. Most schools, even real small ones have buses to take kids clear across the state, I won't say if that is necessary or not, but the cost of one bus would pay two teachers salary. I guess I grew up when you had to watch every penny, but we need to looks at what is really needed and not just a convenience or for show.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
A lot of money has been thrown at 'education'...and what are we getting
for our $$$??? I think education needs looked at closely. I watched
Dr. Phil the other day--it was a program on teen gangs. A 14-year old boy
was on the show. He was a gang member, he had guns, he had been shot
at, he had shot at others. :shock: :shock: :shock:
The discussion was about boys that age needing to 'belong' to something.
Not all boys are athletes and since music programs have been
cut from many schools, there is nothing for them to 'belong' to, so
as a result, they join gangs. Dr. Phil has a foundation where money is
given to needy schools for music programs--he thinks that is so
important that he did something about it.

My point is, a lot of money is given to sports...I think too much money...
academics and music take a back seat to sports. There has to be
a better way to spend the taxpayers money. We don't get young
people ready for the real world...sports is not the real world...not that
I think we should do without sports altogether, I don't. But it need not
be worshipped like a God. IMO

Maybe the answer is for the parents to chip in and pay for some of
the expenses incurred to bus kids all over the state to games. This
is not just a SD problem, BTW, it exists in a lot of states. Something's
gotta give..................
 

Twister Frost

Well-known member
Juan said:
tipical liberal response

Well, Juan, if there were red ink here, I’d have to mark your response wrong! I am not a liberal---I am a teacher and a rancher---and to be quite honest with you, I am a registered Republican but have thought about going Independent for the last three years.
Of all the important things in your life, what would you say is your most important “asset”?
I’ve been asked that question quite a few times (kids like to know what their teachers think is important) and my response has always been, “My children.” Not sure what was so offensive to you in my answer, but I really do think providing a quality education to SD kids is important---our kids are not going back to the ranch or taking over dad’s job at the filling station---they are competing for college spots and jobs nationally and internationally. The “Three R’s” don’t cover that anymore---like it or not technology has taken us beyond just teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic. Classes I took in high school thirty years ago are being taken by middle school and junior high students today---not sure what that says for the intelligence level of fifteen year olds back in the 80’s, but I see firsthand what kids are learning today, and they are way ahead of where my counterparts and I were.
I do not think for one minute that the education budget in SD is not outlandish---just know that is not just your little community schools—that includes Board of Regents schools, also. It takes a crisis like this for people to come up with ideas for still providing a necessary need and cutting out some fat. The discussions usually just come too close to the deadline and quick decisions have lasting impacts. Faster Horses and Clarencen brought up sports---I have seen small groups go to Board meetings and propose cutting sports---goes over like hot dog juice served as gravy for Thanksgiving dinner. Those who have kids in sports are very protective and threatening when you talk about making cuts---open enrollment in South Dakota was solely for giving parents the opportunity to send kids to play on winning teams first and foremost, or with better coaches, or because the old school wanted to enforce an attendance policy.
Sorry you took offense Juan, but I think there is a lot of fat at the State level—as I mentioned---the gambling vote won based on the idea that it would be used to fund education---the Science Lab is a waste pit of money right now---spending millions to bring in film companies to shoot movies here is a waste of money---I could go on with examples of waste---but educating my children and the children of South Dakota is not one of them. Those who talk about all the excesses in school spending really ought to familiarize themselves with the Department of Education website in their state. There, you can learn about all the federal and state mandates that your school must meet/teach/do/practice/write/sing/dance in order to acquire federal and state funding. I think you might be surprised to learn that so many of those areas that you see as “fat” are actually mandated by our state—not the school’s choice. Find me a public school in South Dakota that will tell the State and the Feds to stick their funding, they can afford to go it alone, and I will be the first to apply to teach there.
And no, Clarencen, I am not worried about job security. I was looking for a job when I took this one and I will be looking for a job when I leave this one. I just think education is a necessity for kids today; it’s expensive, but ignorance will bankrupt you!
On another note, Faster Horses, kids join gangs for many reasons, but statistically, the kids in gangs aren’t going to school to begin with and most of them lack the most important tool in education---involved parents. I hate to say this, but I think Dr. Phil just threw a bunch of money at a problem---kind of similar to what you were saying at the beginning---“A lot of money has been thrown at 'education'...and what are we getting for our $$$???”
I just wonder if those who do not have close ties to a school understand that the kids going to school today are known as “Generation Entitled”—the students and their parents think they are entitled to do/say/belong/join whatever pleases them---and the sad thing is they usually get their way. So, if sports are important, FH, how would you plan to keep a sports program in a school but cut their budget at the same time? FYI, SDHSAA has a rule about how many games a school must play in order to make it into Conference/District play—the main reason any school has teams playing---my point again—the schools don’t make the rules, but we sure have to live by them and it ends up costing us big money.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Faster horses said:
Maybe the answer is for the parents to chip in and pay for some of
the expenses incurred to bus kids all over the state to games. This
is not just a SD problem, BTW, it exists in a lot of states. Something's
gotta give..................

But then you lose/miss many of the kids that need and often benefit the most from the influence of organized sports .....

Many areas already charge fees to help cover the costs of extracurricular activities and sports... They do here- and the first thing they found is that many of those that didn't have the money, or parents that cared- were the ones they were losing...The exact ones sports can often make a profound changing impact on....

Luckily some local businessmen/educators/athletic supporters started a fund so that if a kid wanted to participate- and did not have the money- it would pay for any of those young folks that couldn't pay the fee...
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
NO, TF, IT COSTS THE TAXPAYER BIG MONEY!!!

I have a friend who is a bus driver on school sports trips. It's
amazing the waste that goes on. And they have to pay the bus driver
to wait for the kids, or stay overnight, whatever...

I do appreicate your posts and will grant you that I don't know
the in's and out's of what goes on. I do know that my father thought
it was a PRIVILEGE to attend school and kids these days think it
is their 'right' or they are 'entitled' to attend school and they really
don't appreciate the cost of doing so. It's handed to them, along'
with all the perks...and again, they aren't prepared for the real world.
Some of the High School Jocks have the worst time in the real world,
as they have been appaulded for four years and when they leave
high school for college or the job market, they are just 'one of many.
It's hard on them.

And just so you know, I really appreciate a good teacher and I don't think
they have it very easy, especially in these times. Thank you for your
efforts in teaching our young people. It's hard to discipline kids when
they don't get it at home...
 

Tam

Well-known member
Since sports in not a required subject in school like reading, writing and math . why is it funded through the school budget to begin with? Do you get credits towards graduation if you play sports? No, So why is sports allowed to take money away from those subjects you do need to graduate?

They always say that we are to learn from history IE our past mistakes and achievements but our schools don't even teach history anymore as they are to busy making sure students have the opportunity to play sports. If you look at the education some schools provide to their "SPORTS STARS" you have to wonder if sports should even be close to any EDUCATION system. :roll:

If students want to participate in extra curricular programs like sports, then why not make it a real learning opportunity by letting them learn what it costs. Let them fund raise to cover the costs of providing the program and stop shorting the funds for required subjects for all students for the benefit of a few students.
 

Clarencen

Well-known member
I just brought my the bus thing to use as an example. There are pros and cons to everything. There are a lot of sacred cows out there, not just in our schools, but sometimes we are afraid to touch them.
 

Twister Frost

Well-known member
Tam said:
Since sports in not a required subject in school like reading, writing and math . why is it funded through the school budget to begin with? Do you get credits towards graduation if you play sports?

Actually, Tam, in South Dakota you can receive your physical education credit from participating in athletics--new change that took effect this year. Not sure how many seasons you have to play to earn the half credit, but in SD you can! As far as what is taught in the individual classes---all dictated at the state level through content standards, with some variance in choice and manner as long as you teach what you will be tested over. Fundraising is a hard one to sell, literally. Taxpayers have already given funds for the school to use in budgeting---seems that there is always one group or another seeking money, and it is the kids who get to hear the negative from irate/tired-of-giving-to-every-cause community members---whom I cannot blame. Clarencen--you hit the nail on the head with the sacred pig!!

Here is SD's new graduation requirements:
24:43:11:02. Specific units of credit required for high school graduation. The units of credit required for high school graduation must include the following:



(1) Four units or more of language arts that include a minimum of the following:



(a) One and one-half units of writing;

(b) One and one-half units of literature that must include one-half unit of American literature;

(c) One-half unit of speech or debate; and

(d) One-half unit of a language arts elective;



(2) Three units or more of social studies that include a minimum of the following:



(a) One unit of U.S. history;

(b) One-half unit of U.S. government;

(c) One-half unit of geography; and

(d) One-half unit of world history;



(3) Three units or more of mathematics that must include a minimum of the following:



(a) One unit of algebra I;

(b) One unit of geometry; and

(c) One unit of algebra II;



(4) Three units or more of laboratory science that must include a minimum of the following:



(a) One unit of biology;

(b) One unit of any physical science; and

(c) One unit of chemistry or physics;



(5) Effective September 1, 2013, one unit or more in any combination of the following:



(a) Approved career and technical education courses;

(b) A capstone experience or service learning; and

(c) World languages;



(6) One-half unit of personal finance or economics;

(7) One unit of fine arts;

(8) One-half unit of physical education; and

(9) Effective September 1, 2013, one-half unit of health or health integration.



Students may be granted up to one credit in fine arts for participation in extracurricular activities. A maximum of one-fourth credit may be granted for each extracurricular activity each school year. In order to grant credit, a district must document the alignment of the activity with fine arts content standards as approved by the South Dakota Board of Education. Here is where playing a sport can be used as credit, Tam---

Academic core content credit may be earned by completing an approved career and technical education course. Approval to offer credit must be obtained through an application process with the Department of Education. The application must include:



(1) Course syllabus;

(2) Standards based curriculum;

(3) Teacher certification;

(4) Assessment of standards by methods including end-of-course exams, authentic assessment, project-based learning or rubrics.



Source: 10 SDR 111, effective April 24, 1984; 11 SDR 96, 11 SDR 112, effective July 1, 1985; 16 SDR 214, effective June 12, 1990; 23 SDR 31, effective September 8, 1996; 27 SDR 75, adopted January 17, 2001; 29 SDR 140, adopted April 1, 2003; 31 SDR 129, adopted March 2, 2005, effective July 1, 2009; transferred from § 24:03:06:06.01, 31 SDR 178, adopted May 4, 2005, effective July 1, 2005; 33 SDR 55, adopted September 11, 2006, effective September 1, 2007; 33 SDR 55, adopted September 11, 2006, effective September 1, 2009; 36 SDR 96, effective December 8, 2009.

General Authority: SDCL 13-1-12.1, 13-3-47.

Law Implemented: SDCL 13-3-1.4, 13-33-1, 13-33-19.


 

Tam

Well-known member
PE classes in school has always been there so when did it change from PE during school requiring no special travel expenses to recieve credits to after school sports that require out of town trips to play against other schools to get credits.
 

Traveler

Well-known member
I would think that the internet could be used more, as well as videos and live feeds, to help offset cutbacks in personnel. We all have to be creative to live within our budgets. Complaining usually doesn't help, and it's not a useful life lesson for the kids to witness. If test scores do suffer, then it would seem like school boards will have no choice but to cut the sports budgets, whether they like it or not.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Anybody know how the annual costs per student in the US rank, compared to other Countries, that typically score higher in quality of education?


PISA OECD rankings
http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/54/12/46643496.pdf


Shanghai-China
Korea
Finland
Hong Kong-China
Singapore
Canada
New Zealand
Japan
Australia
Netherlands
Belgium
Norway
Estonia
Switzerland
Poland
Iceland
United States


edited to add:

-Canada spends about 7% of its GDP on education

-OECD countries now spend an average of USD 7,343 per student per year between primary and tertiary education, but this masks a broad range of expenditure across countries. Switzerland and the U.S. spend the most, with average annual outlays per student of more than USD 11,000.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Twister? How does SD rank in costs and scores Nationally?


sidenote, but one thing I will never figure out about union members, they are more than happy to bargain as a collective, but when it comes to cutting costs, it's every man/woman for himself.

Why not take a pay cut and keep the staffing numbers the same?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Twister Frost said:
Tam said:
Since sports in not a required subject in school like reading, writing and math . why is it funded through the school budget to begin with? Do you get credits towards graduation if you play sports?

Actually, Tam, in South Dakota you can receive your physical education credit from participating in athletics--new change that took effect this year. Not sure how many seasons you have to play to earn the half credit, but in SD you can!

And I agree with that 100%--- because there are huge opportunities available anymore from those that have experience/education in physical education -- all the way from coaching to geriatric physical therapy...A major industry anymore....

As I used to answer a few ranchers/folks that had non athletic involved/allowed to participate/ or major talented kids back when I was on the school board when they wanted to cut all athletics/extra curricular-- does that mean you want to cut the top performing Speech and Debate kids from competition too-- or those that qualify for high honors in Drama from performing in the regional/state meets :???: Many of which learn great public speaking-leadership abilities from their participation....
Should we also stop the FFA and and Shop class kids that excell from being able to participate in the State and National contests like the Plymouth Trouble Shooting Contest ( that I won a spot to participate in in 1968 :D ) :???: :???:

Do we award kids for participating and excelling-- or do we just throw the whole works out the door :???:

Clarence is right- a very argued situation- and especially varied if you do or don't have athletic/talented children.....

Over 40 years of involvement- I've seen education- athletics- and extra curricular activities do some miraculous things with kids I didn't think had a chance.....
I think I read somewhere that there is about 20-30+ times more money spent individually a year to keep someone in prison-- then what we spend on our students to help them become responsible educated citizens...The Tam type folks think we should lock them all up rather then educating/working with them to make them responsible... :( Its been the major problem we've had over the years with much of the social problem- no happy medium... One political cult goes overboard with help- the other goes overboard with lock them all up....

In my opinion--This country has not even come close to what they should be spending on education-- because that education- and those generations is the future of the country.......
But some old fogies can't see that :mad:
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
In my opinion--This country has not even come close to what they should be spending on education-- because that education- and those generations is the future of the country.......
But some old fogies can't see that :mad:

There is a difference between spending, for the sake of spending, and efficiently spending and getting value for that spending.

If the US is spending almost $4000/student (50%) more than the average OECD Country and not scoring above average on the scoring, there's inefficiencies present.


What are the students getting for the extra spending?
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Many years ago we had an educated man we very much respected mention that our country spends a lot of money bringing kids up to average without spending much, if anything, on furthering gifted kids. I never thought about it til he mentioned it, but he's right.

----------------------

And I just thought of something--when a town of 1800 people has
6 cruisers to bus kids to games, isn't that in excess??? And it's sad,
but true.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
Many years ago we had an educated man we very much respected mention that our country spends a lot of money bringing kids up to average without spending much, if anything, on furthering gifted kids. I never thought about it til he mentioned it, but he's right.

and there are ways to spend "more' on the gifted and save money at the same time.

I know here in Calgary there was a school that used a lecture style for the older kids/higher grades. Not sure if it was only for certain subjects and if the program is still running.

Less teachers/student, but the students were challenged and they were better prepared for college/university
 

jodywy

Well-known member
Less teachers/student, but the students were challenged and they were better prepared for college/university
other then the general Freshmen science, or humanities courses I had college class with sizes down to the minim of 7 students
 
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