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Recession--Depression??

Do You think the US Economy is Heading into a Recession--or a Depression?

  • No-the Economy is doing Fine

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a mild short Recession

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a prolonged Recession/Depression

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Economic Collapse

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
Steve, this post is so incoherent and plain out wrong in your accusations that I choose to wait until you have your thoughts together before I respond to your points, if you have any of merit.

NO, it is your meandering attempts to change the argument over the last ten pages, every time one of your points is shot down that is so incoherent and plain out wrong"



meander
(mē-ăn'dər) pronunciation

intr.v., -dered, -der·ing, -ders.
1. To follow a winding and turning course: Streams tend to meander through level land.
2. To move aimlessly and idly without fixed direction:
n.
1. meanders Circuitous windings or sinuosities, as of a stream or path.
2. A circuitous journey or excursion; ramble.

Do you think retyping a dictionary term makes you any more coherent or credible? How about addressing the points.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
While you SAY you are pro American business, you don't practice it in policies you support


Why is it that you liberals make things up, then when your called on it, you just make up more unsubstantiated comments?

unsubstantiated,...IN BRIEF: adj. - Unsupported by other evidence.

care to prove your unsubstantiatablecomment?

didn't think so...just another "lie"... :roll: :? :roll:

[/b]

Why don't you read the former posts and reply to the content? Can you?

Why is it Steve, that we have a huge trade deficit?

Perhaps you will have to resort to quoting the dictionary again.

Why is it Steve, that we have a huge trade deficit?
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
Why don't you read the former posts and reply to the content? Can you?

I already read the former posts and commented on them...

in every one your "tax the rich" evil corporation whines, you neglect that to tax the "evil" corporations you would have to also tax the very same "American" corporations... as they are all equal under the law... and in most cases there is only a liberal view of which ones are evil...rich,.. big... but one fact remains the corporations you want to tax out of existence are all "American corporations"...

so instead of chasing your tail around like a yellow dog... face facts your tax rich evil corporations is the same as saying tax American hard working corporations....
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
Why is it Steve, that we have a huge trade deficit?

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22335&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=96

already tried to explain it to you,...

But I'll make it really simple...just for you.

When a country (US) exports less then we import from other (evil) countries,...then the country (US) has a trade deficit..
 

Steve

Well-known member
since you want to re-argue arguments you already lost...

tex
The "rich" or shall I say corporations, are running their trucks on the roads my taxes help pay for and they are making deals with local and state governments to pay less taxes than I do and wear those roads out a lot more than I do. They need police to keep order, and governments too. They need to be protected from invading armies and the such. They need to pay their fair share of taxes, just like anyone else.

tex
It would be nice if you came up with some real numbers,

even though I, and others on here have already shown that corporations pay more in taxes then they receive in services... I am willing to show how attitudes like yours not only screw them, but harm small American corporations as well...

and since you like numbers so well I started with one... and it's direct effect small American business...

The Impact of Regulatory Costs on Small Firms

This research updates and further delineates the the burden imposed by federal regulations on small business.

The research finds that the cost of federal regulation compliance totals $1.1 trillion; the cost per employee for firms with fewer than 20 employees is $7,647.

Environmental and tax compliance regulations appear to be the main cost drivers in determining the severity of the impact on small firms.

Cost per employee for all firms of Federal Regulations is $5,633

The regulatory costs included in this report focus the resource costs over and above those that show up in the federal budget and agency personnel charts. The report provides an accounting of the non-budgeted costs imposed on individuals and businesses to comply with regulations.

Other important regulatory costs are not captured in this report’s estimates, most notably activities by state and local governments, indirect burdens, and general equilibrium effects. Each of the 50 American states has an array of regulations superimposed on federal regulations. These costs are not explicitly considered here but do add to the nation’s total regulatory burden
source SBA

so in your liberal effort to "tax the rich" and enforce draconian regulatory compliance on them... you are in effect screwing the very companies you are claiming are being hurt by unfair foreign competition.. under our law "all are equal" there is no regulations for the rich that the poor are exempt from,... so for every misguided law regulating or taxing the rich,,, the small are hurt and effected in a greater more harsh way... while it's economies of scale that larger corporations are able to minimize their costs... the effect of more taxes and more regulations are the same.. small American corporations will suffer the most...

So even before we start to export, we as American Business have more regulatory cost then most importers have in total costs,... yet you want to increase the "rich evil corporations" tax burden? so in effect you should be blamed for the trade deficit as it is your desire to tax the rich that imposes this huge burden on small American corporations..
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
It would be nice if you came up with some real numbers,

here is another real number...

Despite the generally good U.S. policy environment, certain industry policies place undue burdens on the growth of export and import-competing sectors and push capital and labor into other industries. Most important among these are policies that weigh heavily on manufacturing and in particular durable goods manufacturing,...

Overall, the National Association of Manufacturers has estimated regulatory compliance costs add nearly 13 percent to U.S costs that foreign competitors do not bear.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Steve said:
there is only a liberal view of which ones are evil...rich,.. big... but one fact remains the corporations you want to tax out of existence are all "American corporations"...

....

That is the Liberals fiscal answers. They want to have the power to be selective on who they believe should pay taxed. They do not worry about fairness they just want the power of God to decide who should pay and who shouldn't.

They talk about Big Corporations like they are child molesters or something. In reality it is because of big corporations that the majority of people in America have jobs in the first place. We don't see Millions moving to the Country to become Ranchers or Farmers, they are getting jobs for the corporations. And many times the bigger the corporation the more they pay and the better the benefits. The more they help the middle class person which the Liberals like to claim they are out to help.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Sounds like you would rather have things a little different, steve. If you join the communist party, they might let you in china and all your dreams can come true.
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
Sounds like you would rather have things a little different, steve. If you join the communist party, they might let you in china and all your dreams can come true.

Comments such as that show just how much of an ass you really are.... and why rationally discussing any topic with you is a waste of time...
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
Sounds like you would rather have things a little different, steve. If you join the communist party, they might let you in china and all your dreams can come true.

Comments such as that show just how much of an ass you really are.... and why rationally discussing any topic with you is a waste of time...

You are griping about all the protections we have developed in the U.S. and the costs, which China does not have. Would you rather have the Chinese system?

I am not going to argue that our government isn't as efficient as it should be. We both know it isn't.

What I am saying is that our trade policies have advantaged other countries' products above our own. In addition, we have let the traders of goods arbitrage the differences in our country's protections and freedoms with China, which is largely run by the communist elite. In addition, we have allowed big money to influence our political system with their lobbyists and their money they throw around in D.C. and in the communities they operate in to get legal advantages, tax advantages, and corporate welfare that benefits those corporations unfairly and makes the rest of us pay more in taxes to cover these benefits. In addition, we have taxed incomes in these large corporations lower than the average person who ends up picking up the differences in higher taxes or more borrowing which they have to pay back. This should not happen.

The fact is that high income earners have been given more of the country's wealth through tax, legal, corporate welfare and non enforcement of existing laws. The middle class has not benefited as much, nor has the lower class. Tax benefits are direct benefits from everyone else and so is corporate welfare. Legal, non enforcement of existing laws, and judicial activism in the courts (not allowing access to courts -- arbitration agreements for example), have also taken away from individual citizens and been given to corporations. Not all corporations ask for these type of benefits, but enough do that it should be a concern.
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
You are griping about all the protections we have developed in the U.S. and the costs,

No, I was responding to your compulsive desire to tax the rich evil corporations and how that excessive taxation and draconian regulations aimed at punishing profit and success harm "all American businesses"...not just the evil rich corporations you wish to punish,.... but in your closed minded hatred of the rich you assumed something I never said nor typed...but instead chose to type something irrelevant and insulting...

to which I responded that... Comments such as that show just how much of an ass you really are.... and why rationally discussing any topic with you is a waste of time... and once again you show how relevant my last comment was...
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
The fact is that high income earners have been given more of the country's wealth through tax, legal, corporate welfare and non enforcement of existing laws.

ironically the fact is not that... it has been proven over and over again,... even in this thread that corporations pay more in taxes then they receive in government services...

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22335&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=84

but every time your presented with real facts you chose to ignore them... isn't that called closed minded? ... no wonder your insulted when I say your liberal... because you sure are not open-minded...
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
What I am saying is that our trade policies have advantaged other countries' products above our own.

I am tired of repeatedly proving you wrong only to have you say something insulting and irrelevant so "maybe you could explain how more taxes and more regulatory costs of "rich evil corporations" will help "American Business" compete?
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
What I am saying is that our trade policies have advantaged other countries' products above our own.

I am tired of repeatedly proving you wrong only to have you say something insulting and irrelevant so "maybe you could explain how more taxes and more regulatory costs of "rich evil corporations" will help "American Business" compete?

If you had followed the discussion, you would have known that when it comes to imports, I was saying that income taxes (with export credits) only do not put U.S. manfactured goods on the same plain as an ad valorem tax. This was probably too much for you to understand. It allows other countries to "dump" their products on U.S. markets.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
Why is it Steve, that we have a huge trade deficit?

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22335&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=96

already tried to explain it to you,...

But I'll make it really simple...just for you.

When a country (US) exports less then we import from other (evil) countries,...then the country (US) has a trade deficit..

Sure didn't say why, did you? I already know the definition, steve, reach deeper.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
since you want to re-argue arguments you already lost...

tex
The "rich" or shall I say corporations, are running their trucks on the roads my taxes help pay for and they are making deals with local and state governments to pay less taxes than I do and wear those roads out a lot more than I do. They need police to keep order, and governments too. They need to be protected from invading armies and the such. They need to pay their fair share of taxes, just like anyone else.

tex
It would be nice if you came up with some real numbers,

even though I, and others on here have already shown that corporations pay more in taxes then they receive in services... I am willing to show how attitudes like yours not only screw them, but harm small American corporations as well...

and since you like numbers so well I started with one... and it's direct effect small American business...

The Impact of Regulatory Costs on Small Firms

This research updates and further delineates the the burden imposed by federal regulations on small business.

The research finds that the cost of federal regulation compliance totals $1.1 trillion; the cost per employee for firms with fewer than 20 employees is $7,647.

Environmental and tax compliance regulations appear to be the main cost drivers in determining the severity of the impact on small firms.

Cost per employee for all firms of Federal Regulations is $5,633

The regulatory costs included in this report focus the resource costs over and above those that show up in the federal budget and agency personnel charts. The report provides an accounting of the non-budgeted costs imposed on individuals and businesses to comply with regulations.

Other important regulatory costs are not captured in this report’s estimates, most notably activities by state and local governments, indirect burdens, and general equilibrium effects. Each of the 50 American states has an array of regulations superimposed on federal regulations. These costs are not explicitly considered here but do add to the nation’s total regulatory burden
source SBA

so in your liberal effort to "tax the rich" and enforce draconian regulatory compliance on them... you are in effect screwing the very companies you are claiming are being hurt by unfair foreign competition.. under our law "all are equal" there is no regulations for the rich that the poor are exempt from,... so for every misguided law regulating or taxing the rich,,, the small are hurt and effected in a greater more harsh way... while it's economies of scale that larger corporations are able to minimize their costs... the effect of more taxes and more regulations are the same.. small American corporations will suffer the most...

So even before we start to export, we as American Business have more regulatory cost then most importers have in total costs,... yet you want to increase the "rich evil corporations" tax burden? so in effect you should be blamed for the trade deficit as it is your desire to tax the rich that imposes this huge burden on small American corporations..

total BS.

Any small company can hire a payroll company to cut the costs to a minimum, if they wish.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
A recent poll by the Wall Street Journal and NBC found that 58 per cent of Americans think that globalisation has been bad for the US and that only 28 per cent believe that it has been good. Ten years ago the split was more even: 48 per cent thought that globalisation was good and 42 per cent that it was bad. The biggest surprise is that supporters of the two parties are no longer far apart on the question. Globalisation has been bad for the US according to 55 per cent of Republicans and 63 per cent of Democrats.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
It would be nice if you came up with some real numbers,

here is another real number...

Despite the generally good U.S. policy environment, certain industry policies place undue burdens on the growth of export and import-competing sectors and push capital and labor into other industries. Most important among these are policies that weigh heavily on manufacturing and in particular durable goods manufacturing,...

Overall, the National Association of Manufacturers has estimated regulatory compliance costs add nearly 13 percent to U.S costs that foreign competitors do not bear.

NAM will inflate costs like the meat industry inflated the costs of enforcing MCOOL.

I am all for our government getting more efficient to reduce these costs.

No argument there.

If these are costs like having bathrooms available for workers and the such, I will not argue against these items. They shouldn't even have to be required--companies should provide decent working conditions.
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
Any small company can hire a payroll company to cut the costs to a minimum, if they wish.



Even a payroll company charges for their service, and adds to the cost or expenses of a corporation...

your right your answer was total bs,
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
The fact is that high income earners have been given more of the country's wealth through tax, legal, corporate welfare and non enforcement of existing laws.

ironically the fact is not that... it has been proven over and over again,... even in this thread that corporations pay more in taxes then they receive in government services...

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22335&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=84

but every time your presented with real facts you chose to ignore them... isn't that called closed minded? ... no wonder your insulted when I say your liberal... because you sure are not open-minded...

If you are referring to this as "proof", it is about as credible as your claim to know the housing industry because you bought a house and the value went up.

Here is a better report for you:

http://www.ctj.org/corpfed04an.pdf

You can just read the first part of it to get an idea of what I am arguing about instead of just making up stuff.

This study is much more extensive and accurate than the dribble you have offered and is pretty interesting. It shows how extensive tax sheltering has become for corporations to get out of paying their fair share.
 

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