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Recession--Depression??

Do You think the US Economy is Heading into a Recession--or a Depression?

  • No-the Economy is doing Fine

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a mild short Recession

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes- a prolonged Recession/Depression

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Economic Collapse

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Steve

Well-known member
tex
If you had followed the discussion,

I did,.. and you only brought that up after your tax the evil rich corporation arguements were shot down.....

how other countries deal with thier laws is not something we as American business could compete with since our democratic leadership is not trying to level the playing field, but instead are hell-bent on taxing the rich evil corporations...

and your comment still does-not address my question..."maybe you could explain how more taxes and more regulatory costs of "rich evil corporations" will help "American Business" compete?
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
If you are referring to this as "proof", it is about as credible as your claim to know the housing industry because you bought a house and the value went up.


Comments such as that show just how much of an ass you really are.... and why rationally discussing any topic with you is a waste of time... and once again you show how relevant my last comment was...

not what I said,..just what your closed minded pea-brain mis-interpeted,... discussion over.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You two should go into government--you'd fit right in....While you argue politics-- the economy slips further into the sewer.....


New-Home Sales Plunge by 9 Percent

Friday, December 28, 2007 12:07 PM





WASHINGTON -- Sales of new homes plunged last month to their lowest level in more than 12 years, a grim testament to the problems plaguing the housing sector.


The Commerce Department reported Friday that new-home sales tumbled by 9 percent in November from October to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 647,000. That was the worst showing since April 1995, when the pace of sales was 621,000.


The sales pace for November was much weaker than economists were expecting. They were predicting sales in the weakest sector of the economy to drop by around 1.8 percent, to a pace of 715,000.


The median sales price of a new home dipped to $239,100 in November. That is 0.4 percent lower than a year ago. The median price is where half sell for more and half for less.
 

Steve

Well-known member
OldTimer
You two should go into government--you'd fit right in....While you argue politics-- the economy slips further into the sewer.....

I'm doing really well economically..... no matter what I say or do won't stop other people from making bad economic choices...

but, I will not support policy that would escalate American businesses demise...

No matter how much some dispise large evil rich corporations when our politicians punish them with taxes and regulations ...All American businesses pay for those decisions...
 

Steve

Well-known member
WASHINGTON -- Sales of new homes plunged last month to their lowest level in more than 12 years, a grim testament to the problems plaguing the housing sector.

in the 90's the policy was to change home ownership into a market...or investment,... and unfortunatly all markets and investments have corrections..

it is one thing when a person losses his shirt over a business deal and then as a result he ends up losing his home... but now that some are convinced homes are more then just homes and treated them like an investment... a lot of mis-guided people will end up losing their home because they turned it into a bad business decision...

but it has to have a correction, just like the tech bubble the stock bubble and every other over-priced market..

if the value is not there it will fall :? just like it did when the S&L's failed... and that was followed by well over a decade of economic gains...
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
If you had followed the discussion,

I did,.. and you only brought that up after your tax the evil rich corporation arguements were shot down.....

how other countries deal with thier laws is not something we as American business could compete with since our democratic leadership is not trying to level the playing field, but instead are hell-bent on taxing the rich evil corporations...

and your comment still does-not address my question..."maybe you could explain how more taxes and more regulatory costs of "rich evil corporations" will help "American Business" compete?

Nothing will help them compete with communist labor. That is still not an excuse to not make businesses pay taxes nor is it an excuse to not levy taxes against a country who does not have freedom, democracy, or labor and environmental protections as well as fraudulent and hurtful (lead poisoning in children's toys) products that take away from American manufacturers for those products.

You seem to be so incapable of separating the issues. I do not.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
If you are referring to this as "proof", it is about as credible as your claim to know the housing industry because you bought a house and the value went up.


Comments such as that show just how much of an ass you really are.... and why rationally discussing any topic with you is a waste of time... and once again you show how relevant my last comment was...

not what I said,..just what your closed minded pea-brain mis-interpeted,... discussion over.

Let me just elaborate for you, Steve. As an elected official (county road board) I had to deal with these issues. We had standards that had to be met to allow residents in a community to turn over their roads to the county for up keep. We had certain road construction standards that had to be met before we took over residential roads so that the county would not have to fix some developer's big mistakes in road construction. Generally, we would only take over the roads after construction, not building them for the developer--- but only after they had been properly built. This was the county, and the city was different. This blows holes all in your silly argument. Of course you can't really tell what your argument is because you didn't cite the source and we couldn't look at the factors considered nor the methodology. It was more akin to your own opinion, not a proof, as you claim.

Now you may have some areas of the country that do things different, but that is how it was done in our county. Roads are public goods. Anyone can travel on public roads so they are a benefit to all. We did not take over people's driveways, however.

The large trucks on the state controlled roads have a big impact on the road construction. If you have ever been at a red light where the road has huge indentations where the tire tracks are, you will get a little understanding of this problem. The heavier the truck the greater the cost in road construction because of the depth and rock that has to be provided to build the road. There are also problems with current/past construction vs. overloaded vehicles, not to mention bridges in the county. Some things were covered by county funds, some by state funds, some by federal funds, and some by combinations of the three.




If you would like to expand your information on the "proof" you offered, please do. It might make your claim more credible, otherwise stop touting it as definitive "proof".
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
Any small company can hire a payroll company to cut the costs to a minimum, if they wish.



Even a payroll company charges for their service, and adds to the cost or expenses of a corporation...

your right your answer was total bs,

There are costs for having employees, that is not in doubt. Your efficiencies of size arguments are what in question. Good payroll companies reduce the efficiencies of scale arguments you bring up. They wouldn't be in business if they didn't.
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
As an elected official (county road board) I had to deal with these issues.

then it sounds like you failed... and why should I accept your personnel experience as fact? can you prove it?

BTW the indents at stop lights are caused by all vehicles stopping with hot tires, that causes the asphalt to flow... we had the same problem and had to put in concrete run-ups to prevent them and that was on roads with little to no heavy vehicle traffic...

facts remain... corporations pay more in taxes then they require in services...

Your ignoring issues such as schools, social services and the full scope of services to focus on your narrow view that roads are the only issue.. they are not... yes, a truck has a larger impact but a truck has higher government costs... locally a car can be registered and operated on the roads for about $65, once the weight jumps to 4000 lbs the cost goes to $440.00, but then that is based on personnel experience and you want proof... and since I can't put put my expense sheets up on the internet.. I'll give another example of your state...


In Texas the cost starts at about $40.50 and then add "$25.00 plus 44 cents per cwt. for 6,000 lbs or less to 99 cents per cwt. for over 31,000 lbs. Diesel trucks pay 11 percent additional fee."

thus the trucks pays more for it's proportion of the services, and thats not counting tolls, city passes and other "inspection fees"

gee it looks to me as if the big evil trucks are paying more... but then again if your focus is to punish the big evil corporations no amount in higher fees will be enough...



and here is the link that Proves "Big evil trucks" owned by "Rich big evil corporations" pay more to drive on roads...... and that cost effects all American businesses...
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/hwytaxes/2001/pt11.htm

and your comment still does-not address my question..."maybe you could explain how more taxes and more regulatory costs of "rich evil corporations" will help "American Business" compete?[/b]
 

Steve

Well-known member
Tex
Let me just elaborate for you, Steve. As an elected official (county road board) I had to deal with these issues....

nice story... wrong in alot of ways...but If you would like to expand your information on the "proof" you offered, please do. It might make your claim more credible, otherwise stop touting it as definitive "proof". It might make your claim more credible, otherwise stop touting it as definitive "proof".
 

Steve

Well-known member
tex
This blows holes all in your silly argument. Of course you can't really tell what your argument is because you didn't cite the source and we couldn't look at the factors considered nor the methodology. It was more akin to your own opinion, not a proof, as you claim.

Lets see here was my comment...
Commercial, industrial, and farm and open land contributed more to the local municipality and school district than they took, thus helping subsidize the needs of residential land.

Studies in Pennsylvania and in other states fairly consistently have found that residential land typically costs more than what it provides back in revenues. Commercial, industrial, and farm and open land, in contrast, provide more than they cost on services..

that study (and both quotes) came from ...

liberal leaning PSU ... http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/ua327.pdf.

and this comment says it all...
Fiscal “winners” are able to attract and retain the industrial, commercial and residential property tax base that will allow them to provide even more and higher quality services -- including schools -- and/or lower property tax rates, thereby making them even more attractive places,.... But fiscal “losers” have the opposite experience.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
tex
As an elected official (county road board) I had to deal with these issues.

then it sounds like you failed... and why should I accept your personnel experience as fact? can you prove it?

BTW the indents at stop lights are caused by all vehicles stopping with hot tires, that causes the asphalt to flow... we had the same problem and had to put in concrete run-ups to prevent them and that was on roads with little to no heavy vehicle traffic...

facts remain... corporations pay more in taxes then they require in services...

Your ignoring issues such as schools, social services and the full scope of services to focus on your narrow view that roads are the only issue.. they are not... yes, a truck has a larger impact but a truck has higher government costs... locally a car can be registered and operated on the roads for about $65, once the weight jumps to 4000 lbs the cost goes to $440.00, but then that is based on personnel experience and you want proof... and since I can't put put my expense sheets up on the internet.. I'll give another example of your state...


In Texas the cost starts at about $40.50 and then add "$25.00 plus 44 cents per cwt. for 6,000 lbs or less to 99 cents per cwt. for over 31,000 lbs. Diesel trucks pay 11 percent additional fee."

thus the trucks pays more for it's proportion of the services, and thats not counting tolls, city passes and other "inspection fees"

gee it looks to me as if the big evil trucks are paying more... but then again if your focus is to punish the big evil corporations no amount in higher fees will be enough...



and here is the link that Proves "Big evil trucks" owned by "Rich big evil corporations" pay more to drive on roads...... and that cost effects all American businesses...
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/hwytaxes/2001/pt11.htm

and your comment still does-not address my question..."maybe you could explain how more taxes and more regulatory costs of "rich evil corporations" will help "American Business" compete?[/b]


While in your area it might have been hot tires, in ours, it was the traffic of overweight trucks for the roads. They were not designed for that high of weight. The substructure was the problem as much as the surface area. Since then, we have reintroduced the truck route to a road that was designed for heavier vehicles. It is the new truck route. We also increased the road width specifically for the wide swing of trucks. Sure it cost more than designing roads or remaking roads for heavier vehicles.

I want to correct you on something you keep bringing up. You keep inserting the word "evil". It is your word. You brought it in, and you own it.

My view is that companies will do whatever they can do to decrease the amount of taxes they have to pay. You narrowed down to taxes for roads and income for roads. I did not have that narrowing down, again, it was your make up. Please look in the article I referenced and tell me where the road argument you bring up is listed. You made some incorrect statements about roads, which I corrected, but that is not my main argument. Read the article on taxes paid by corporations, which by the way, had a sample of 1200 some odd companies, not one specific instance.

Companies will use any loophole they can find and they beg Washington for more loopholes all the time. Regular people have the AMT, but where is the corporate AMT? We have corporations who "buy" infrastructure just to write off depreciation. They don't really own the infrastructure, they are just buying a write off. Politicians and the IRS have to stay ahead of this stuff and keep it from happening. It is hard to do when you are a politician receiving money from these companies.

Here are is an article on some tax evaders and Senate action to combat it. There have been some hearings on this and I suspect this is a result of some of those hearings:

http://financialcrimeforum.com/europe/content/view/21/16/
 

Juan

Well-known member
(Too bad its another FACTLESS rant Or are you going to tell us FDR wasn't a Liberal or a Democrat... )

I skipped over about 10 pages ot this and don't know if anyone replied to this by Old timer. Yes FDR was a lib and a Dem and he kept the country in recessin for 12 years :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

Steve

Well-known member
Tex
You narrowed down to taxes for roads and income for roads. I did not have that narrowing down, again,

you brought the issue up... not me I was just responding to your misguided view...


since your haveing trouble keeping track of yor posts and how you started the issue... I took a minute to look them up for you..

Tex Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:59 am Page 7

The "rich" or shall I say corporations, are running their trucks on the roads my taxes help pay for and they are making deals



Tex Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:00 am

Let me just elaborate for you, Steve. As an elected official (county road board) I had to deal with these issues.


Tex Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:59 pm

While in your area it might have been hot tires, in ours, it was the traffic of overweight trucks for the roads.

try to at least remember what you said... before you accuse or insult some one...
 

Steve

Well-known member
Tex
I want to correct you on something you keep bringing up. You keep inserting the word "evil". It is your word. You brought it in, and you own it.

It was just added to show how emotional and stupid it sounds when you say "rich" corporations or big corporations as if they are all to be distrusted or evil... or greedy...

the simple fact is that these American corporations that liberals want to present as bad,.. are in fact employing a lot of people and most are providing good wages, benifits and protection for thier employees... and the more they are targeted the more these same corporations move their operations overseas...

How long can you kick a person around, before they leave town?
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
Tex
I want to correct you on something you keep bringing up. You keep inserting the word "evil". It is your word. You brought it in, and you own it.

It was just added to show how emotional and stupid it sounds when you say "rich" corporations or big corporations as if they are all to be distrusted or evil... or greedy...

the simple fact is that these American corporations that liberals want to present as bad,.. are in fact employing a lot of people and most are providing good wages, benifits and protection for thier employees... and the more they are targeted the more these same corporations move their operations overseas...

How long can you kick a person around, before they leave town?

I see you also add "all" a lot also.

Perhaps you should keep to adding words to your own posts instead of others.

Companies are often "leaving town" as you say because they are still able to get someone else to subsidize their operations. Usually that means the local taxpayer.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
Tex
You narrowed down to taxes for roads and income for roads. I did not have that narrowing down, again,

you brought the issue up... not me I was just responding to your misguided view...


since your haveing trouble keeping track of yor posts and how you started the issue... I took a minute to look them up for you..

Tex Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:59 am Page 7

The "rich" or shall I say corporations, are running their trucks on the roads my taxes help pay for and they are making deals



Tex Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:00 am

Let me just elaborate for you, Steve. As an elected official (county road board) I had to deal with these issues.


Tex Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:59 pm

While in your area it might have been hot tires, in ours, it was the traffic of overweight trucks for the roads.

try to at least remember what you said... before you accuse or insult some one...

When communist china uses our roads to sell their goods, and their taxes didn't pay for them, or European goods, or anywhere else, and subsidizing those exports, our trade negotiators should take this into account and stop putting U.S. manufacturers at a disadvantage. Yes, that includes hauling goods from Mexico that are from China, which includes our roads.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Tex
When communist china uses our roads to sell their goods, and their taxes didn't pay for them,

the tax is paid,, just not dierctly.. to charge the importer is a tarrif...

the trucking corporation pays the taxes to operate... they charge the import company to ship the product...thus tax is paid... and the truck operating has paid it's fair share of taxes..

but you still haven't explained .. "how more taxes and more regulatory costs of "rich evil corporations" will help "American Business" compete?


and what is with you and the disdain of truckers? Did one cut you off???
 

Tex

Well-known member
Steve said:
Tex
When communist china uses our roads to sell their goods, and their taxes didn't pay for them,

the tax is paid,, just not dierctly.. to charge the importer is a tarrif...

the trucking corporation pays the taxes to operate... they charge the import company to ship the product...thus tax is paid... and the truck operating has paid it's fair share of taxes..

but you still haven't explained .. "how more taxes and more regulatory costs of "rich evil corporations" will help "American Business" compete?


and what is with you and the disdain of truckers? Did one cut you off???

Take all your garbage words that you make up and I might answer your questions, steve, if they are really questions for me and not the stuff you put in the post yourself. I think you need to answer your own questions.
 

Tex

Well-known member
Could better oversight have saved the government 200 million in taxes? How about tightening overseas assets of "rich corporations"?

Mogul Sentenced to 9 Years For Tax Evasion and Fraud

By Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, March 28, 2007; Page B01

Eccentric Washington telecommunications mogul Walter C. Anderson was sentenced yesterday to nine years in prison for failing to pay $200 million in taxes -- but a federal judge ruled the Internal Revenue Service won't be repaid for now because prosecutors botched the plea agreement.

Anderson, the biggest convicted tax cheat in U.S. history, received the longest punishment ever given in a tax crime case for his admitted effort to hide $365 million in personal income in the 1990s. He avoided paying taxes by using aliases, shell companies, offshore tax havens and secret drop boxes abroad.
 

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