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Record Profits = Record Taxes

Mike

Well-known member
May 2, 2008

Record Taxes Paid before Record Oil Profits

by Scott A. Hodge


ExxonMobil's recent announcement of first quarter profits of $10.9 billion has prompted the predictable political demagoguery about "obscene" profits and the need for a new windfall profits tax. Exxon does not need our help to defend itself against such charges but I remain amazed that none of the major news outlets have highlighted the fact that these are net profits, meaning profits after taxes.

If reporters were to dig just a bit deeper into the company's earnings statement they would find that Exxon—like all the major domestic oil companies—directly pays or remits a staggering amount of taxes to governments both here and abroad. Before taxes, Exxon had income of $20 billion on total world-wide revenue of $116 billion. Its earnings statement shows that the company paid $9.3 billion in income taxes to governments here and abroad. This amounts to an effective tax rate of more than 46 percent, 10 percentage points higher than the U.S. statutory rate of 35 percent.

In addition to income taxes, the table below shows that Exxon paid or remitted $20 billion in various sales taxes, excise taxes, severance taxes, and property taxes. This brings the total amount of taxes the company paid or remitted to $29.3 billion, nearly three times the net profits it earned for shareholders.

The financial statements of two other large U.S.-based oil companies, ConocoPhillips and ChevronTexaco, show similar large tax payments. Indeed, these three companies paid or remitted a combined $47.8 billion in taxes in the first quarter of 2008, nearly $28 billion more than they earned in net profits.

Of course, these firms are multinational so many of these taxes are paid to foreign governments not just to Uncle Sam. But the point critics and the media need to recognize is that governments in general are bigger beneficiaries of oil industry sales than are shareholders.

First Quarter 2008 Results
(Millions of Dollars) Exxon Conoco Chevron Total
Gross Sales $ 116,000 $ 54,883 $ 64,659 $ 235,542
Income before tax $ 20,192 $ 7,549 $ 9,677 $ 37,418
Income taxes $ 9,302 $ 3,410 $ 4,509 $ 17,221
Sales-based taxes $ 8,432 n/a n/a $ 8,432
All other taxes $ 11,607 $ 5,155 $ 5,443 $ 22,205
Total taxes $ 29,341 $ 8,565 $ 9,952 $ 47,858
Net Profits $ 10,890 $ 4,139 $ 5,168 $ 20,197
Effective Income Tax Rate 46% 45% 47% 46%


http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/printer/23178.html
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
The Liberals just do not understand that a big part of our Country expenses are paid by companies like Exxon. Either by the income tax they pay or the income tax that is paid by their high wage earning employees.

It takes like 60 million individual tax payers to equal the revenue intake of one company like Exxon.

Government needs to spend less money instead of looking for a way to take more money. And us citizens need to quit wanting the Government to take more money away from our fellow citizens so we can pay less. That is a very selfish way to think.

I do not want one person in the U.S. to pay a single dollar more % wise or total dollars in taxes! I want the government to take less and spend less!

Never understood the mind set of a Liberal Middle Class person, some how the millions of dollars that someone like Bill Gates pays every year is not enough of him doing his fair share in taxes. For some reason they want him to pay more so they can pay less, what kind of attitude is that to have towards your fellow American Brother?
 

TSR

Well-known member
Mike said:
The Dems have never seen a tax they didn't like..................

I am not a Democrat but I dont like an exemption tax especially for some company making more profit than any in history. And a company that engages in secret meetings with my governments 2nd in command. I don't see how any working man/woman would like such
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
TSR said:
Mike said:
The Dems have never seen a tax they didn't like..................

I am not a Democrat but I dont like an exemption tax especially for some company making more profit than any in history. And a company that engages in secret meetings with my governments 2nd in command. I don't see how any working man/woman would like such

I agree- and what many Repubs don't understand is that when you have a manipulated market-and preferential policy- the theory of the free market system doesn't work...Because of these exemptions the oil companies are not reinvesting their money into exploration and development like they did before (to get tax breaks) or any alternative energy sources, happy in making their ever new record high quarterly and yearly profits- which is keeping their shareholders very happy- with little risk to their money....
 

fff

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
TSR said:
Mike said:
The Dems have never seen a tax they didn't like..................

I am not a Democrat but I dont like an exemption tax especially for some company making more profit than any in history. And a company that engages in secret meetings with my governments 2nd in command. I don't see how any working man/woman would like such

I agree- and what many Repubs don't understand is that when you have a manipulated market-and preferential policy- the theory of the free market system doesn't work...Because of these exemptions the oil companies are not reinvesting their money into exploration and development like they did before (to get tax breaks) or any alternative energy sources, happy in making their ever new record high quarterly and yearly profits- which is keeping their shareholders very happy- with little risk to their money....

I disagree that they don't understand. They just don't want to pay their own way. They want someone else to do it.

"Taxes" are like "ANWR" and "Abortion" and "Gun Control", hot button words that invoke some people to lose their mind and just react without actually considering what's being presented.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
fff said:
"Taxes" are like "ANWR" and "Abortion" and "Gun Control", hot button words that invoke some people to lose their mind and just react without actually considering what's being presented.

Usually those people are Liberals,

Example: You guys react to oil companies making large profits and your jealousy wants them to be punished. But you are not considering that if there was a windfall tax on them, it will be the consumer and average investor that will pay the price. The Government will have more money to blow, the middle class man will still pay the same in taxes but will pay more at the pump and loss of jobs just so the idiots in Washington can take more Americans money to blow as they see fit. You are correct, you liberals are pretty bad at not considering what is truly being presented, thanks for bringing that point to our attention! :wink:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Well A+- its been pretty well agreed upon that to survive in the future- 5-10-20 years + -- we will need new sources of energy besides oil...

Who is going to put up the money thats going to be required to do the research and development of these energy sources, so we aren't dependent on just oil?
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
TSR said:
Mike said:
The Dems have never seen a tax they didn't like..................

I am not a Democrat but I dont like an exemption tax especially for some company making more profit than any in history. And a company that engages in secret meetings with my governments 2nd in command. I don't see how any working man/woman would like such

Every business has tax exemptions, you are acting like the oil companies are drawing welfare, they pay taxes just like the Rancher, they get tax exemptions and tax breaks just like the Rancher. The fact that they make a large profit is a mute point. There is probably some Ranchers that make a larger profit margin than the oil companies do. Many companies have a larger return on their invested dollar!

Some people do not feel it is fair that Farmers and Ranchers get property tax exemptions in some states when the average Joe working at a plant does not!

It is best to worry about how we individually can raise ourselves up instead of how we can bring someone else down! That very Liberal mentality is why one day America may just be on the same level as Mexico!

I hope Exxon doubles their profits next year, I am sure that money will trickle down into the economy by more and higher paying jobs, better stock market returns and a stronger Country! Why wish bad and want to punish your fellow American!
 

fff

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
I hope Exxon doubles their profits next year, I am sure that money will trickle down into the economy by more and higher paying jobs, better stock market returns and a stronger Country! Why wish bad and want to punish your fellow American!

You obviously live in la la land. EXXON, Mobil, all the oil companies, have had record profits the last three, four years. Yet people are losing their jobs right and left. Businesses are closing. Whatever they've done with those profits, it hasn't helped the US economy. :roll: On the other hand, the high gasoline prices have definitely hurt the economy.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Well A+- its been pretty well agreed upon that to survive in the future- 5-10-20 years + -- we will need new sources of energy besides oil...

Who is going to put up the money thats going to be required to do the research and development of these energy sources, so we aren't dependent on just oil?

The technology is already here. We have solar, wind, ocean wave technology. It is just the oil has always been so cheap. We have coal, if times hit so hard the Liberals will lose on the burning Coal issues.

Battery powered cars have already been successful in California your average Ford Escape on 100% battery been there and done that. I would think you would know more about this since Bush played a part in helping to kill the Battery car.

Nothing will change as long as there is no need for it to. Human nature is to put off sacrifice until absolutely necessary, especially in America we are spoiled.

The entrepreneur spirit will solve our problems necessity is the mother of invention. Look at the Battery Car, when gas was $1.00 a gallon California government tried to make the car companies come up and sale them. The car companies did not want to do it because people wanted SUV's. Now that the consumer want better gas mileage the car companies are racing to release the Batter Car, Nissan will probably be first, but the Chevy Volt could be the greatest of them all since it will go either 100% on battery or 100% on gasoline depending on what you need at the time, not like the Hybrids now that switch back and forth.

The important thing is that we do not kill the entrepreneur spirit and keep the government out of it. Their will be a Bill Gates of energy once it is necessary if we do not beat down and punish those who are successful.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
fff said:
I disagree that they don't understand. They just don't want to pay their own way. They want someone else to do it.

.

I would venture to bet the average Conservative pays more in Taxes than the average Liberal!

The TV show 20/20 already did a report showing we are more generous to charity than your Liberals.

It is funny to hear someone want the middle class to pay less and the wealthier to pay more, when we all get the same exact services. If you want to talk fair, the Bill to run the country should be divided equally by 300 million and we all pay our fair share of the ticket.

I would hate to go out and eat Pizza with you if I made more money than you, you would want me to pay part of your ticket even though we both ate half the Pizza. :roll:

If you Liberals really had to pay your fair share, you would be more outraged at all the spending that goes on in Washington, but since you campaign to get someone else to spend it, you don't mind as long as you get a piece of the pizza for free!
 

TSR

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
TSR said:
Mike said:
The Dems have never seen a tax they didn't like..................

I am not a Democrat but I dont like an exemption tax especially for some company making more profit than any in history. And a company that engages in secret meetings with my governments 2nd in command. I don't see how any working man/woman would like such

Every business has tax exemptions, you are acting like the oil companies are drawing welfare, they pay taxes just like the Rancher, they get tax exemptions and tax breaks just like the Rancher. The fact that they make a large profit is a mute point. There is probably some Ranchers that make a larger profit margin than the oil companies do. Many companies have a larger return on their invested dollar!

Some people do not feel it is fair that Farmers and Ranchers get property tax exemptions in some states when the average Joe working at a plant does not!

It is best to worry about how we individually can raise ourselves up instead of how we can bring someone else down! That very Liberal mentality is why one day America may just be on the same level as Mexico!

I hope Exxon doubles their profits next year, I am sure that money will trickle down into the economy by more and higher paying jobs, better stock market returns and a stronger Country! Why wish bad and want to punish your fellow American!

Every business does not get to meet with gov. officials to discuss the future of its operations. And lo and behold after such meetings the profits start rolling in. Aplus if you were to win the lottery tomorrow and the gov. was going to get 750 million of your winnings in taxes but you were going to get 250 million wouldn't you still be a pretty happy guy (Iguess you are a guy)? Yes or no.
Aplus MOST people do worry about their own personal finances. But a lot of people in a free country worry about the direction America is taking whether you or I share their views or not is also a mute point. I don't like the idea of my grandkids paying taxes on the nat'l debt and here we are still giving tax breaks to a company making zillions. And you talk about punishing your fellow Americans. Exxon doesn't employ the whole population!
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
TSR said:
Aplus if you were to win the lottery tomorrow and the gov. was going to get 750 million of your winnings in taxes but you were going to get 250 million wouldn't you still be a pretty happy guy?

YES!

Now answer me this, You had $100,000.00 invested last year in your cattle operation and at the end of they ear you made $8,500.00 in profit are you a happy guy? Yes or no?

That is comparing apples to apples, the oil companies make around 8.5% profit for every dollar they spend.

Windfall taxing someone for having an 8.5% return on their dollar is ludicrous!
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
TSR said:
aplusmnt said:
TSR said:
I am not a Democrat but I dont like an exemption tax especially for some company making more profit than any in history. And a company that engages in secret meetings with my governments 2nd in command. I don't see how any working man/woman would like such

Every business has tax exemptions, you are acting like the oil companies are drawing welfare, they pay taxes just like the Rancher, they get tax exemptions and tax breaks just like the Rancher. The fact that they make a large profit is a mute point. There is probably some Ranchers that make a larger profit margin than the oil companies do. Many companies have a larger return on their invested dollar!

Some people do not feel it is fair that Farmers and Ranchers get property tax exemptions in some states when the average Joe working at a plant does not!

It is best to worry about how we individually can raise ourselves up instead of how we can bring someone else down! That very Liberal mentality is why one day America may just be on the same level as Mexico!

I hope Exxon doubles their profits next year, I am sure that money will trickle down into the economy by more and higher paying jobs, better stock market returns and a stronger Country! Why wish bad and want to punish your fellow American!

Every business does not get to meet with gov. officials to discuss the future of its operations. And lo and behold after such meetings the profits start rolling in. Aplus if you were to win the lottery tomorrow and the gov. was going to get 750 million of your winnings in taxes but you were going to get 250 million wouldn't you still be a pretty happy guy (Iguess you are a guy)? Yes or no.
Aplus MOST people do worry about their own personal finances. But a lot of people in a free country worry about the direction America is taking whether you or I share their views or not is also a mute point. I don't like the idea of my grandkids paying taxes on the nat'l debt and here we are still giving tax breaks to a company making zillions. And you talk about punishing your fellow Americans. Exxon doesn't employ the whole population!

First off I do believe the government meets with Business owners all the time, I think the farmer and ranchers have lobbyist in Washington D.C. just like oil companies.

There is a big difference in wining the lottery on a $1 ticket bought than investing running and risking a Multi Billion dollar business with employees and company future at risk.

This one point is the main one that you Liberals just can not get past your Jealousy and realize. THE PROFIT MARGIN OF OIL COMPANIES IS NOT AS BIG AS MANY AMERICAN COMPANIES. The large numbers just blows you guys minds! But large companies that INVEST large amounts see large returns.

And here is the most important point that you Libs do not understand! You can change the tax code, change any tax breaks the oil companies get and feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that the idiots in Washington D.C. now have an extra 10 billion dollars a year to spend as they chose! But as soon as you do that within a week of writing that check to the IRS Exxon will push gas prices from $3.75 a gallon up to $4.25 that very week.

You guys just do not get it! Taxation is never the answer to a problem, even of the rich! Because the rich generally make the world go around, and if you want the world to start spinning slower just go and punish them and watch them hoard their money instead of investing it!
 

TSR

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
TSR said:
aplusmnt said:
Every business has tax exemptions, you are acting like the oil companies are drawing welfare, they pay taxes just like the Rancher, they get tax exemptions and tax breaks just like the Rancher. The fact that they make a large profit is a mute point. There is probably some Ranchers that make a larger profit margin than the oil companies do. Many companies have a larger return on their invested dollar!

Some people do not feel it is fair that Farmers and Ranchers get property tax exemptions in some states when the average Joe working at a plant does not!

It is best to worry about how we individually can raise ourselves up instead of how we can bring someone else down! That very Liberal mentality is why one day America may just be on the same level as Mexico!

I hope Exxon doubles their profits next year, I am sure that money will trickle down into the economy by more and higher paying jobs, better stock market returns and a stronger Country! Why wish bad and want to punish your fellow American!

Every business does not get to meet with gov. officials to discuss the future of its operations. And lo and behold after such meetings the profits start rolling in. Aplus if you were to win the lottery tomorrow and the gov. was going to get 750 million of your winnings in taxes but you were going to get 250 million wouldn't you still be a pretty happy guy (Iguess you are a guy)? Yes or no.
Aplus MOST people do worry about their own personal finances. But a lot of people in a free country worry about the direction America is taking whether you or I share their views or not is also a mute point. I don't like the idea of my grandkids paying taxes on the nat'l debt and here we are still giving tax breaks to a company making zillions. And you talk about punishing your fellow Americans. Exxon doesn't employ the whole population!

First off I do believe the government meets with Business owners all the time, I think the farmer and ranchers have lobbyist in Washington D.C. just like oil companies.

There is a big difference in wining the lottery on a $1 ticket bought than investing running and risking a Multi Billion dollar business with employees and company future at risk.

This one point is the main one that you Liberals just can not get past your Jealousy and realize. THE PROFIT MARGIN OF OIL COMPANIES IS NOT AS BIG AS MANY AMERICAN COMPANIES. The large numbers just blows you guys minds! But large companies that INVEST large amounts see large returns.

And here is the most important point that you Libs do not understand! You can change the tax code, change any tax breaks the oil companies get and feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that the idiots in Washington D.C. now have an extra 10 billion dollars a year to spend as they chose! But as soon as you do that within a week of writing that check to the IRS Exxon will push gas prices from $3.75 a gallon up to $4.25 that very week.

You guys just do not get it! Taxation is never the answer to a problem, even of the rich! Because the rich generally make the world go around, and if you want the world to start spinning slower just go and punish them and watch them hoard their money instead of investing it!

So I take it you are in favor of those secret meetings to discuss a PUBLIC energy policy. It seems that is what you are saying although I noticed you left conveniently left out the word SECRET. And these meetings were with the VP not Congressmen.

Taxation?? No, Just eliminating TAX BREAKS for a company that is doing very well. If we are going to give tax breaks, lets give them to start up, struggling companies that want to keep jobs right here within the continental US! BTW if taxes are HURTING Exxon so much why do they stay in those foreign countries and keep on paying double in taxes what they pay here? This kind of pertains to my lottery question to you. Could it be that they don't mind paying those as long as the profits are there? Duh I think you are the one that doesn't get it?

You nor I don't know what Exxon would do with an elimination of their tax breaks we can only surmise what they might do? If we could predict the future we wouldn't be here. Probably they would raise the price but then that raise just might be offset in other ways.

And I really don't care how much money they make let's just don't pay them to make it? As I have said America is the most lucrative market in the world it should be worth something to have access to it.
It would be interesting to see where their profits come from by country and where the taxes stand per country.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
TSR said:
And I really don't care how much money they make let's just don't pay them to make it? As I have said America is the most lucrative market in the world it should be worth something to have access to it.
It would be interesting to see where their profits come from by country and where the taxes stand per country.

There is no way you or any of us PAID exxon to make money. A Tax break is a tricky word, with out a tax breaks we would all pay 100% of our sallaries in taxes. Any company that gets any sort of tax break gets a break on what they pay, they do not get money out of someone elses pocket.

I can not find any where that tells exactly how much taxes Exxon paid in the U.S. and how much went abroad. But it is for sure that they paid Billions in U.S. taxes last year, they did not get one penny of your money to them. You act as if they get unearned income or something, any tax deductions or Breaks just lowered their already over inflated taxation.

All corporations pay to much in taxes, I hope they all get some breaks.

Why do you even care? You really think the government needs more money? You want to see oil money going to Nancy Pelosi or George Bush to spend, instead of paid out to average Americans through dividend checks.

Here is the bottom line, either those high profits will be divided amongst your fellow Americans, many of which are not Rich Millionaires, but just average hard working people that try to invest for their future. Or you would lower your fellow Americans dividend checks and give it to George Bush to spend in Washington? Why would you let your Jealousy hurt the investments of your fellow man, just to give it to a bunch of snakes in Washington to spend!

You Liberals act like One or two people benefit by Exxon making a good profit. Thousands if not Millions of people get a piece of that profit through Mutual funds, stocks and 401K plans. And you want to take these peoples investments away and give it to George Bush to spend?
:roll:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
TSR said:
Aplus if you were to win the lottery tomorrow and the gov. was going to get 750 million of your winnings in taxes but you were going to get 250 million wouldn't you still be a pretty happy guy?

YES!

Now answer me this, You had $100,000.00 invested last year in your cattle operation and at the end of they ear you made $8,500.00 in profit are you a happy guy? Yes or no?

That is comparing apples to apples, the oil companies make around 8.5% profit for every dollar they spend.

Windfall taxing someone for having an 8.5% return on their dollar is ludicrous!

TSR.........I answered your yes or no question are you going to answer mine? If you spent $100,000.00 last year on your cattle operation would you be happy with $8,500.00 in profit for the year?
 

TSR

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
TSR said:
Aplus if you were to win the lottery tomorrow and the gov. was going to get 750 million of your winnings in taxes but you were going to get 250 million wouldn't you still be a pretty happy guy?

YES!

Now answer me this, You had $100,000.00 invested last year in your cattle operation and at the end of they ear you made $8,500.00 in profit are you a happy guy? Yes or no?

That is comparing apples to apples, the oil companies make around 8.5% profit for every dollar they spend.

Windfall taxing someone for having an 8.5% return on their dollar is ludicrous!

That would really be good on my cattle operation after I had already paid myself 50,000 in salary for being its ceo. Do you think that 8.5% you keep mentioning is before or after all the perks the top exec's get? Also I guess if I decide to quit or lose my operation because of bad practices I can still walk away with at least a couple of years salary complements of my customers??
 
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