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Red Backs in winter

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Kentucky

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Our Angus Mix cattle get reddish backs in the winter time. We've heard that this is a copper deficiency. We are trying to find better quality mineral, but it's really hard around here.

Does anyone else have experience with the red backs and how to "fix" it?
 

jingo

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Usually that's a lack of copper. Ck your mineral content
 

efb

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I've been there. Mine was definitely a copper problem. Not only the amount of copper , but the right ratio of copper to zinc ( I believe it was).
Also, calves wouldn't shed their brown baby hair in the spring and generally didn't do well, until I got back on the right mineral. It took about a month to strighten them out.
 

Kentucky

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efb said:
I've been there. Mine was definitely a copper problem. Not only the amount of copper , but the right ratio of copper to zinc ( I believe it was).
Also, calves wouldn't shed their brown baby hair in the spring and generally didn't do well, until I got back on the right mineral. It took about a month to strighten them out.

Hmmmm....do you use a certain brand/name?
 

George

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It sounds like you have a lot of fescue - - - mineral is the correct way to fix now but first thing this spring you need to fertilize and make sure the fertilizer has magnesium in it. That will take a lot of the pressure off but still get on a good mineral program and make sure the feed supplier knows what type of grass you have. If they don't ask they are just trying to sell you something - - - they need to know your operation to service your needs properly.
 

shorthorn

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Kentucky i live in southern indiana and have the same fescue/legume pastures in our wonderful clay ground. I use hubbard feeds and stockmaster minerals. I have tried the vigortone and its okay but have had better luck with stockmaster minerals for MY AREA. Its designed for fescue pastures. I will pm you where to get it. My crossbred herd hasant had any tinge since using it. And my pink eye is gone. Of course i started using rubs to which is a bigger help for pink eye than any mineral program. My registered herd of shorthorns do fine on this mineral and my rebreed is 98%.
 

Faster horses

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Perhaps you didn't use Vigortone's fescue balancer. Who makes Stockmaster mineral and how long did you 'try' Vigortone?

Vigortone, as a company, is over 90 years old and is an industry leader.
They have an impressive track record.
 

efb

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I had been using a special blend our Vet. had formulated for our area. I then went to one provided by our Farmers Coop because is was cheaper.
That cost me. I went back to the Vet's mineral and corrected the problelm. I think the mineral content in your soil is the key and brand name isn't too important unless they are formulating one for your area. You probably ought to check with Extension or some reliable nutritionist in your area to tell you want you need, then find someone who supplies it.
 

efb

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Well, as you can see , I am still learning how to use this site. I didn't mean to quote myself, but, I guess that's one way to get quoted :lol:
 

efb

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Thanks NR. You are kind. Knowledge sometimes comes at a great expense. I guess that's where this site can be helpful.
 

Kentucky

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efb said:
I had been using a special blend our Vet. had formulated for our area. I then went to one provided by our Farmers Coop because is was cheaper.
That cost me. I went back to the Vet's mineral and corrected the problelm. I think the mineral content in your soil is the key and brand name isn't too important unless they are formulating one for your area. You probably ought to check with Extension or some reliable nutritionist in your area to tell you want you need, then find someone who supplies it.

Hey - what do you mean "that cost me"? I'm curious.

We finally found a place a ways from here that mixes the mineral according to our local soil deficiencies (don't know brand - I'll have to ask hubby). It's a pain to get it, but I hope it's worth it. We just put it out.....and the cows swarmed it! We've never had them act like that with mineral!
 

efb

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Hey - what do you mean "that cost me"? I'm curious.



What I meant was, I saved a little money on mineral, but my cattle didn't perform well, which was a far greater loss than my saving on mineral.
 

shorthorn

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Faster horses said:
Perhaps you didn't use Vigortone's fescue balancer. Who makes Stockmaster mineral and how long did you 'try' Vigortone?

Vigortone, as a company, is over 90 years old and is an industry leader.
They have an impressive track record.

yes i used the fescue balancer for 6 months but it wasant as good as the stockmaster which was used on another herd down the road. The cows on the vigortone had more pink eye than the other herd and i had 7 more cows not bred. But that might not be the minerals fault? The neighbor had his buffalo on vigortone and they was shaggy and red tinted. He changed to the stockmaster fescue mineral (made by hubbard) and the buffalo turned around and cleaned up. I feel that vigortone is good for some areas but a mineral designeed by local guys is better every time.
 

Faster horses

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I'm glad you found something you are happy with.

We usually recommend staying on Vigortone for a year to see the ultimate in results.

Vigortone will go in and take grass and water samples and formulate a
mineral specific to an area, if necessary. I know they have had tremedous success with Fescue Balancer, however, since we don't have Fescue, we have not used it ourselves. They formulated a mineral for an area known for scours here in Montana. It worked so well, that now everyone in that area uses it. That did take a special formula, they added Biomoss also. But it has met with huge success.

Anyway, nice that you found something you are happy with. That is the main thing. Mineral can do so many good things. Incredible, really, what it can do.

I do have to take issue with your statement, "mineral designed by local guys is better every time." I have never known that statement to be true, except maybe in your case. Lots goes in to making mineral and particle size is of utmost importance. Hard for the smaller guys to be able to do that. Pretty much impossible, really. And they don't have access to the best ingredients either.
 

George

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I just had a feed salesman from Hubbard feeds stop and say they had a mineral " Stockmaster Sweet Phos 8 " that was exactly like the Umbarger mineral I was purchasing but was $7.00 per 50# cheaper. I purchased some and when I put it out I had been free choicing the Umbarger " Fescue Endo-Fighter " for several months and the cattle were consuming about 100# per week - - right on target for the 4 oz. psr head per day.

The Hubbard was gone in 5 hours! Then I compared tags and the Hubbard has less than 10% of the Phosphorus, Magnessium, Potassium about 50% of the Zinc and on and on accross the board - - - the onlt area where Hubbard had more was in the salt content.

Long story short we do not have asscee to Vigortone in this area but Hubbard falls way short of Umbarger even if Umbarger is $14.00 per 100# more than Hubbard and when a salesman tells me his product is "exactly the same" from now on I will check tags before making a purchase - - luckly I only tried two bags.

Umbarger has several different mixes for different times of the year and different forages. I did not know about the fescue mix until faster horses put a bug in my mind I and I had to ask my feed salesman about it. He did not know of it but called the company and now has offered it to others with fescue in the area.

I do believe that small regional companies like Umbarger feeds can do a great job. Not all do but in this case they are very dedicated to being the best and are doing a great job on a regional area.
 

PPRM

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I believe there is a hidden point FH makes.......

A national company like Vigorone can make special blends. It takes several things though. One is an analysis that shows it necessary. Another is someone asking. A final is a market that will suppport te blend. It takes time to set up and blend product, it can only be done if it makes economic sense...

In reading how they will analyse, it tells me several things. Number one, they will address your needs. Number 2, they will steer you toward a product they make IF it will work. This second point will save you money over a special blend...

This from someone that uses a Purina Mix formulated for his area......

I am not trying to minimize anyones results. I am glad you have what works, I been there without a good product to. I am commenting more on things to consider when looking to buy or do business with someone,

PPRM
 

Faster horses

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George, I am glad I was able to help, thanks for mentioning it, since that is my main mission in these discussions.

And when someone tells you what they have is "just like another", you can usually BEWARE. And good for you for checking your bags against the others.

Another thing to watch for is ingredients. The analysis is one thing, the ingredients are another. There are some that are used because they are cheap, but they aren't readily available to the cow, meaning her system can't easily break them down to use. So again, you are right on, sometimes saving money per bag, costs way too much in the long run.


I'm glad you have found a company that is willing to help, rather than just sell you something.
 

righter

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Faster horses, you hit the nail on the head when you said check ingredients. "All natural" can mean almost anything, and ground up boot leather is a source of 'all natural protein'.
Guess this is why it can be said people don't do business with companies, people do business with people. :)
 

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