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refining capacity

Red Robin

Well-known member
I've heard one of the several reasons that gas is so high is the lack of refining capacity due to increasing regulations. Anyone have any insight?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The poor Oil Companies probably don't have the money- they been giving it all out to their managment in the form of bonus's and retirement benefits... :wink: :roll:

Exxons $300 million dollar retirement package for its CEO even got O'Reilly stirred up- he's calling for a boycott of all Exxon products.....
 

Cowpuncher

Well-known member
Many smaller refineries - less than 30,000 barrels per day have been shut down due to the cost of complying with new rules and regulations from the EPA. Also, the state and local government require dozens of different gasoline formulas. If you don't have a big one, it is difficult to accomadate.

It is a lot easier to expand a 350,000 BPD refinery to, say, 400,000 BPD rather than fool around with smaller refineries. Also, since most of our crude oil is imported (or from Alaska) most refineries are located near the coast. That is pretty tough when Katrina and Rita come along and knock them out for months.

All refineries also have an environmental compliance staff. These people are highly paid and the bigger the refinery, overall, the cheaper it is.

Over the years, oil companies have made most of their money on "Upstream Operations" finding and producing crude oil rather than
"Downstream Operations" which include refining, pipeline and marketing. You have a hard time getting oil people excited about spending money downstream.
 

Southdakotahunter

Well-known member
i got a question. 15 years back or so, all the cars and such would get about 10 miles to the gallon. Now we are getting 30ish, other than big trucks and such. Has our consumption rose by that much to warrent these prices? they say its because of how much that is being used. how much more are we refining now than we were 15 years ago?
 

Cowpuncher

Well-known member
SDH - Gasoline consumption?

Bad news here. The consumption of gasoline is clearly out of control!!!

in 1950, the US consumed 2,606,000 barrels of gasoline per day
in 1960, the US consumed 3,969,000 barrels of gasoline per day
in 1970, the US consumed 5,785.000 Barrels of gasoline per day
in 1980, the US consumed 6,579,000 barrels of gasoline per day
in 1990, the US consumed 7,235,000 barrels of gasoline per day
in 2000, the US consumed 8,472,000 barrels of gasoline per day
in 2006, the US is consuming 9,125,000 barrels of gasoline per day.

As you can see, we are burning it up.

In 1950, we produced more oil than we consumed and export a bunch.
Now, the UD imports about two-thirds of the petroleum we use.


This is a sad picture. The US, of course, has an agency that provides this data.

Go to the Energy Information Agency website and find out the rest of this sad story.

By the way, the lowest gasoline consumption in the US is District of Columbia at 215 gallons per person per year. Wyoming is at the other end with 615 gallons of gasoline per person per year.
 

Cal

Well-known member
Possibly more projections at this site than you can stand to look at.
http://www.exxon.mobil.com/corporate/Citizenship/Imports/EnergyOutlook05/index_full.html
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
We had the same refining capacity two years ago, three years ago. What were gas prices then? Every year they change the mix for summer driving. Yet this year, they're claiming that's the reason for high gas prices! Look at their profits. They're ripping us off. That's it plain and simple. They're not going to stop until this Republican-led government steps in and does something. And I don't think that's likely to happen since they refused to even have the energy execs be sworn in to testify before Congressional committees!
 

Mike

Well-known member
And I don't think that's likely to happen since they refused to even have the energy execs be sworn in to testify before Congressional committees!

Is there evidence that any of the Execs at the hearing lied to the questioners?

Seems to me they certainly told the truth when asked how their profits could be so exhorbitant when the cost of raw goods had risen so dramatically?

Their answer was.........we can pass the costs on to the consumer and they will pay it.

Until the demand for gas goes down the prices will continue to rise. It's not a Republican nor Democratic thing just a component of capitalism.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Mike said:
Seems to me they certainly told the truth when asked how their profits could be so exhorbitant when the cost of raw goods had risen so dramatically?

Their answer was.........we can pass the costs on to the consumer and they will pay it.

No, no. It's not, a just passing the costs on. They were not making these kinds of profits two years, three years ago. They own much of the raw product, crude oil. Exxon Mobil Corp. posted record profits for any U.S. company on Monday -- $10.71 billion for the fourth quarter and $36.13 billion for the year.

Until the demand for gas goes down the prices will continue to rise. It's not a Republican nor Democratic thing just a component of capitalism.

If the price of wheat when up to the point Americans were paying $10 for a loaf of bread, how fast do you think the government would get into the farmer's business?

I won't be a bit surprised to see gas prices drop as we get closer to the November election either.
 

Cowpuncher

Well-known member
Disagreeable wrote:

If the price of wheat when up to the point Americans were paying $10 for a loaf of bread, how fast do you think the government would get into the farmer's business?

Where in the world have you been. The government has been in the farmer's face for a hundred years!!!!!!! :eek: :eek:
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Cowpuncher said:
Disagreeable wrote:

If the price of wheat when up to the point Americans were paying $10 for a loaf of bread, how fast do you think the government would get into the farmer's business?

Where in the world have you been. The government has been in the farmer's face for a hundred years!!!!!!! :eek: :eek:

So why not the oil industry's face?
 

Cowpuncher

Well-known member
Disagreeable wrote:


So why not the oil industry's face?





Do you think they are not?? I spent 25 years in the oil industry and I can assure that nothing in this country is subject to as much regulation at the energy business. Nothing they do is without scrutiny from local, state and federal officials.

That is one reason that oil companies are disappearing. Mobil, Gulf, Texaco, Unocal, Arco, Amoco, Sohio, Getty, Phillips etc. etc. etc.

When I worked for Big Oil, we had an office at our Headquarters where the IRS permanently camped out. They worked there for Uncle Sam just like we worked for Big Oil.

If you want a real "for instance", look up the Santa Barbara field,discovered in 1979 with reserves of close to a billion barrels. After the California Costal Commission, USGS, State of California, etc, etc got done making rules and then changing them after Big Oil complied, the Oil companies abandoned the project - after losing hundred of millions of dollars. Those are some of the dollars you are paying at the pump now.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Cowpuncher said:
Disagreeable wrote:


So why not the oil industry's face?


Do you think they are not?? I spent 25 years in the oil industry and I can assure that nothing in this country is subject to as much regulation at the energy business. Nothing they do is without scrutiny from local, state and federal officials.

It may be watched, but the oil industry is still a wildcatters heaven. And they deserve to be watched. I've worked for them, too.

That is one reason that oil companies are disappearing. Mobil, Gulf, Texaco, Unocal, Arco, Amoco, Sohio, Getty, Phillips etc. etc. etc.

They're disappearing because of consolidation. The oil companies who have contracts with middle eastern countries are in control. They've bought out most of the small, independents.

When I worked for Big Oil, we had an office at our Headquarters where the IRS permanently camped out. They worked there for Uncle Sam just like we worked for Big Oil.

Good for the IRS. Today much of the oil companies revenues are tax exempt.

If you want a real "for instance", look up the Santa Barbara field,discovered in 1979 with reserves of close to a billion barrels. After the California Costal Commission, USGS, State of California, etc, etc got done making rules and then changing them after Big Oil complied, the Oil companies abandoned the project - after losing hundred of millions of dollars. Those are some of the dollars you are paying at the pump now.

BS. We're paying now for the greed of the oil execs. I believe in a few years, when Bush is gone, and someone actually investigates this jump in oil prices, we'll find out the same thing that we found with Enron and the manufactured energy outages in California: they stuck it to us. They took production plants off line to cause rolling blackouts to scare people and justify their price hikes. The oil companies are doing the same thing now. For example, even though every year they make a change in the gasoline mixture for summer driving, this week they're claiming it's the cause for price increases! And no one in the media has the guts to call them on it.

If you're talking about the offshore oil, there are plenty of oil rigs pumping offshore in Santa Barbara, CA. They took than ban off in the '80s.
 

Cowpuncher

Well-known member
Disagreable wrote:
If you're talking about the offshore oil, there are plenty of oil rigs pumping offshore in Santa Barbara, CA. They took than ban off in the '80s.

Are you sure? They have been pumping oil offshore California for decade, but I doubt that they are producing the BIG ONE.

Please provide some information for an old oil man. It was owned in part by Chevron and Phillips when it was discovered.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
Cowpuncher said:
Disagreable wrote:
If you're talking about the offshore oil, there are plenty of oil rigs pumping offshore in Santa Barbara, CA. They took than ban off in the '80s.

Are you sure? They have been pumping oil offshore California for decade, but I doubt that they are producing the BIG ONE.

Please provide some information for an old oil man. It was owned in part by Chevron and Phillips when it was discovered.

You made the claim. It's up to you to defend it. A simple search with Google for Santa Barbara + oil reserves gives me a long list of articles including the one below. I don't know if that's the one you're complaining about, but it's obvious that Santa Barbara is producing a lot of oil and gas.

http://www.countyofsb.org/energy/information/oil&GasProduction.asp
 

T3023

Well-known member
There are no oil and gas refineries or gas companies owned by Americans. Any oil pumped out of the US is sold to the European market. They refine it and sell it back to us for 6.00 a gallon.


If GM and Ford go bankrupt, there will be no more tool and dye industry in this country. They will be the last. When they go we will be at the mercy of European countries / Far East countries (we don't own it, we are not benefiting from it) because they are the last.
 

Cal

Well-known member
T3023 said:
There are no oil and gas refineries or gas companies owned by Americans. Any oil pumped out of the US is sold to the European market. They refine it and sell it back to us for 6.00 a gallon.


If GM and Ford go bankrupt, there will be no more tool and dye industry in this country. They will be the last. When they go we will be at the mercy of European countries / Far East countries (we don't own it, we are not benefiting from it) because they are the last.
Just in case any young skulls full of mush read this, I want them to know that you are an illogical conspiracy theorist with a very short view on the North American and world economy.
 

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