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Reheated Veggie Oil creates HNE toxin - linked to Alzheimers

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Kathy

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Mon May 2 15:29:38 2005 Pacific Time

ADVISORY for 9 a.m. Wednesday, May 4 - Salt Lake City

University of Minnesota Researchers Find That Food Fried in Vegetable Oil May Contain Toxic Compound
MINNEAPOLIS, May 2 (AScribe Newswire) -- University of Minnesota researchers A. Saari Csallany, a professor of food chemistry and nutritional biochemistry, and graduate student Christine Seppanen have shown that when highly unsaturated vegetable oils are heated at frying temperature (365 F) for extended periods -- or even for half an hour -- a highly toxic compound, HNE (4-hydroxy-trans-2-nonenal), forms in the oil.

Previously, vegetable oils such as soybean, sunflower and corn were regarded as heart-healthy because of their high levels of linoleic acid, a polyunsaturated fatty acid. HNE is incorporated into fried food in the same concentration as it forms in the heated oil.

Also, Csallany and her colleagues have found three toxic HNE-related compounds (known as HHE, HOE and HDE) in heated soybean oil. They will present their work at a poster session from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Wednesday, May 4, at the 96th annual meeting of the American Oil Chemists Society in the Salt Lake City Convention Center.

"HNE is a well known, highly toxic compound that is easily absorbed from the diet," said Csallany. "The toxicity arises because the compound is highly reactive with proteins, nucleic acids -- DNA and RNA -- and other biomolecules. HNE is formed from the oxidation of linoleic acid, and reports have related it to several diseases, including atherosclerosis, stroke, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, Huntington's and liver diseases."

Csallany's work underscores the risk of repeated heating, or reusing, highly unsaturated oils for frying because HNE accumulates with each heating cycle. In future studies, Csallany and her colleagues plan to determine how long polyunsaturated oil must be heated at lower temperatures in order to form HNE and its related compounds. The study was funded by the University of Minnesota.
 

nr

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Depressing article, Kathy. But thanks for keeping us up to date.
So saturated oils are bad. Now Unsaturated oil is being knocked out.
How will we all live without donuts :help:
 

mrj

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Who would have thought........maybe animal fat will turn out to be the most healthful after all.

Wonder how closely they are studying the level of heat, top temp the oils reach, etc.

Makes the research into components and effects of the various components in beef fat appear even more important, IMO.

Are the pork people doing something along those lines? Hope so, because I really like to use lard for pie crust, breads, etc.

Also wonder if they are using the pure product, or if the oils, and the animal fats in that research, contain preservatives or other chemicals.

Hopefully the researchers are using pure product with no additives to get the most accurate information.

MRJ
 

fedup2

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Don’t these researchers drive you nuts? When I was a kid, you had the basic food groups. Then they tore them to pieces! This is bad-that is bad for you! Next it was wait a minute, there is good cholesterol & bad cholesterol.

Don’t eat red meats, avoid dairy products, no egg yokes….yada..yada!
They shove 10 ozs. of cranberries up a 5 oz rats @ss & it dies, ’cranberries killed a rat’! They are bad for you!

Today I read a study that said to reduce the risk of Alzheimer’s by nearly 70%, be sure you diet is brimming with vitamin E rich foods, like grains, nuts, milk and egg yolks. Wait a minute! Yesterday they told us to avoid these foods! (the ones our parents and grandparents ate & lived to be a ripe old age and still remembered most everything!)

I think its time to go back to the basic food groups that we were taught about years ago. It seems half the people I know are dying of cancer or have Alzheimers!

Thanks for letting me vent & remember that if you are what you eat…..avoid fruit & nuts! LOL!
 

nr

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fedup2 said:
Don’t these researchers drive you nuts?

They are trying hard to make some sense out of a difficult universe.
That takes time.
Remember researchers brought you:
antibiotics and vaccines (you might be dead by now)
gasoline (you might be nowhere now)
The Ranchersnet 8) (you might have nobody to complain to now
:wink:
 

Faster horses

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Good points, NR!!

I dunno, when I read the title of this topic, it scared the bejesus out of me. We have eaten a lot of stuff with heated up oil in my deep fryer. And I can't remember where I put my camera...

among other things...

LOTS OF OTHER THINGS!

Oh, NO! :cry:
 

mrj

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Relax, FH, a wise friend reminded me that it isn't not being able to remember what you wanted when you opened the refrigerator door, but not being able to remember what a refrigerator (or camera!) is for that determines you may have a problem!

MRJ
 

fedup2

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I guess I should have made my point a little more clear nr. I was thinking about the ones hired by special interest groups to find a certain connection. example: animal rights groups & veggies= anti dairy-meat-etc.
Yes, you are correct about the rest.
I was shoving my face full of food that I'm not suppose to have because of my cholesteoral when I read that, & I guess I got excited! lol! I am a sweetaholic!
 

RobertMac

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Reader2, what is the difference between saturated and unsaturated fats? There are no double bonds in a saturated fatty acid chain...all single bonds with Hydrogen or Carbon. What is the significant of this? Stability...because stronger single bonds are less likely to break down and change molecular structure under adverse conditions...such as heating. What does the molecular structure change to? In part, that's what the article told you. Are you going to die tomorrow from eating fries from Mac D's? Obviously not. But if you are going to cook with oils, wouldn't it be prudent to use a stable oil...like beef tallow, lard, butter, coconut oil?

fedup2: "...(the ones{food} our parents and grandparents ate & lived to be a ripe old age and still remembered most everything!) "

Here is the key clue...they ate food the way Nature presented it to them, not processed! Look at when all these chronic health problems started to escalate...it parallels the increase of hydrogenated vegetable oils, processed starches, processed sugar, preservative...processed foods...a dietary change. You have to answer this question...why, after eating animal fats since the beginning of humanity, have animal fats become harmful in the last century?????
 

RobertMac

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reader (the Second) said:
RobertMac said:
Reader2, what is the difference between saturated and unsaturated fats? There are no double bonds in a saturated fatty acid chain...all single bonds with Hydrogen or Carbon. What is the significant of this? Stability...because stronger single bonds are less likely to break down and change molecular structure under adverse conditions...such as heating. What does the molecular structure change to? In part, that's what the article told you. Are you going to die tomorrow from eating fries from Mac D's? Obviously not. But if you are going to cook with oils, wouldn't it be prudent to use a stable oil...like beef tallow, lard, butter, coconut oil?

fedup2: "...(the ones{food} our parents and grandparents ate & lived to be a ripe old age and still remembered most everything!) "

Here is the key clue...they ate food the way Nature presented it to them, not processed! Look at when all these chronic health problems started to escalate...it parallels the increase of hydrogenated vegetable oils, processed starches, processed sugar, preservative...processed foods...a dietary change. You have to answer this question...why, after eating animal fats since the beginning of humanity, have animal fats become harmful in the last century?????

Hey, I eat butter and olive oil mostly. Occasionally sesame seed oil and canola oil for Chinese cooking.

I was asking how the chemistry of the overheated oil could be connected to Alzheimer's for instance. Also, one would expect large scale epidemiological studies comparing a group who didn't eat food cooked in reheated / overheated unsaturated fats mentioned versus those who did.

Every time a healthy, primitive groups of people were brought into 'civilization', they began having the same health problem as 'civilization' that weren't previously there. I agree that connecting a specific chemical to a specific problem would require in-depth studies, but where are you going to find a group that hasn't eaten food cooked in unsaturated fats.
 

Kathy

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Wow, such good healthy debate. I hadn't expected such as response; but, this kind of thing sure hits home when you chowing down on some fries or chips.

The reason I posted it, was because I heard the idea off of Paul Harvey's radio program (USA based). I have certainly noticed lately, that many of the reports coming out are changing their terminology from "infection" to "toxic or toxins". (This is how Paul phrased it, also)

A chemical reaction based on the molecular makeup of the toxin and its interaction with other compounds within our bodies.

I think the main idea, that heating these oils to high temperatures, is bad - is probably wise.

I am all for consciencious acceptance of what we are doing to our bodies (and our children's bodies). If we have health problems, you can almost bet that diet plays a major role.

I find the same evidence of the older (80 plus) population, that are sharp as a whip and healthier than most 50 year olds.

Since everything that happens in our bodies is a chemical reaction of some kind - changing the chemical makeup of oil's linoleic acid to HNE (a known toxin) is good science and good to know.

It is similar to the health effects of enriched white flour which forms acrylamides (known toxins) when heated at high temperatures.

But, I can't understand how you can just right off the report Reader? Unless you have evidence to the contrary - the science that is published is God, right!

That's what they say all the time about prion science. The other side has no published evidence to support it, therefore it can't be. (by the way, this is a false statement). I hope we as consumers won't be as blind as the politicians etc. are that are cramming this "infectious prion" hypothesis down our throats.

Getting the funding to support "alternative approaches" is a real challenge. Alot of the philanthropists out there seem to want a return on their investment (charity).
 

Kathy

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OK, but I didn't say it caused Alzheimer's disease. It states it could be linked to Alzheimer's.

It is important that we realize that many diseases are likely caused by an unfortunate combination of events. That is why diseases don't strike us all down the same.

If one chemical causes the reduction, or increase, in another biologically active substance within our bodies - there is a cascade of effects.

Maybe there are multiple combinations that can result in Alzheimer's disease, etc. We have to stop thinking that there is one cause, one trigger, one cure. But in the meantime, we should all eat better!
 

rkaiser

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Reader -
It's a hypothesis, that's what it means to be "science" and I wonder what would consitute more supporting evidence? This is a hypothesis to be validated or refuted. That was my point, not to jump to the conclusion that they have discovered the cause of Alzheimer's for instance.

Sorry, just could not read this without connecting it to talk from Kathy and myself concerning another hypothesis. That being the unproven theory that vCJD is caused by humans eating beef or bovine products contaminated with BSE.

It seems to be okay for you to jump to some conclusion there now doesn't it reader.

I wonder if Kathy will find and post thousands of articles supporting the hypothesis she presented to us? I doubt it. But reader will continue to dig until her very own 6 feet is dug to show the merits behind the hypothesis she wants us all to beleive.
 

graybull

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As usual........RobertMac is right on the money........(well, I won't get into the marketing/packer/big business type issues....lol)

You are absolutely right about natural foods............saturated fats, etc. Keep up the great work and keep educating through your ability to tell the story so all can understand.
 

RobertMac

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graybull said:
As usual........RobertMac is right on the money........(well, I won't get into the marketing/packer/big business type issues....lol)

You are absolutely right about natural foods............saturated fats, etc. Keep up the great work and keep educating through your ability to tell the story so all can understand.

Hello Graybull, good to see you're checking in for 'entertainment' ! Yes, I do venture outside my expertise from time to time :) ...duh, what is my expertise??? :???: Good to hear from you...drop me an email if you run across something interesting. Take care, Robert

Reader, eat all the butter you want...it is one of the best foods you can consume. Same goes for milk...forget the low fat stuff...milk butter fat is good for you, especially your immune system. If it's a psychological barrier, buy whole milk and add your own water...most low fat milk is powdered milk(not good) with water added. Fresh, raw, 100% grassfed is best, but good luck finding any unless you own a cow(Jersey is best incase you are interested).

Can't get on to you for cooking with olive oil...I do also, but keep your temp low(below 300 F). Remember , it's unsaturated and heat will change things. Saturated fats are more stable, but our choices are limited...coconut oil is good(and no, it won't make everything taste like coconuts)...lard and beef tallow, if you can find it.

Reader: "Now you have to admit, that we probably eat larger quantities of animal fat than in past years -- well at least compared to the amount of physical labor we do."

Primitive Eskimos had 80% or more of their diet calories came from animal fats and had none of the health problems we have today. Animal fats aren't the problem! You have to distinguish between animal fats and hydrogenated/partially hydrogenated vegetable fats because the studies used to condemn saturated fats don't. Most of the good nutrients in beef are stored in the fat...vitamins, minerals, and good essential fatty acids. Again...why, after eating animal fats since the beginning of humanity, have animal fats become harmful in the last century????? You can't accept the 'animal fats is bad' scenario until this question is answered.

And fast food isn't necessarily bad...it's the preparation(and all the extras). 100% beef patty on whole or sprouted grain bun with fresh vegetables; unsweet tea, water, or whole milk; fries fried in beef tallow like McDonalds originally did...that's a relatively balanced diet. The problem in our diet is all the processed food that are heavily starch based. Remember, we fatten cattle with starch!!!!
 

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Robert you know I agree with you on the animal fats aren't bad, but don't use extreme examples as the primitive Eskimos having 80% of calories coming from fat with no ill effects, without further information.

They lived in an extremely cold climate, slept in Igloos and were on the move all day long. For sedentary North Americans to try to copy their diet without their expenditure of calories would kill them in a short time.

Many of our grandparents also never got the calories we imagine. My Granddad used to tell me beef was a luxury even though he had cows. It wasn't until the late 40's after WWII beef became a regular part of his diet. He worked for many years on eggs and potatoes for lunch, and for a change would get potatoes and eggs for supper. I doubt if he got 1000 calories out of those meals.

The best thing we can do is support people in making reasonable choices that fit easilly into their lifestyle (radical change isn't easy), encourage them not to forego the animal fats but to use them in moderation. The 30% of your calories from fat guideline seems reasonable for anyone with a 'normal' lifestyle.
 

Kathy

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I have one concern about animal fats. This is something which should be looked at visa the new research division at the Univ. of Saskatchewan.

Many chemicals store in the fat (lipophilic). With the excessive use of all kinds of chemicals by so many industries, right down to the individual spraying his lawn for dandelions - some of these chemicals, can get stored in the "mammals fat".

I see many patents and research papers that are pushing for ways to identify the chemical contaminants in our bodies. So much crap has already been released into our environment, that the science and education realm is mostly concerned with test kits, so that the levels of chemicals can be monitored, and determine if there are good or bad changes in levels.

I would like to encourage them to also educate people about their harmful effects more. The old saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" still holds true today. It is very difficult for people who find themselves ill to talk of prevention, but, we need to start this avenue somewhere. This is probably why the pharmaceuticals are trying to take over the distribution of vitamins and minerals. The evidence supporting anti-oxidant vitamin therapy is building.

Just the other day, I read an Edmonton Journal article (sent to me by another rancher). The headline said "Vitamin E fails to stop Cancer" or something like that. In fact, if you read the article, the story was that Vitamin E did help, and in some cancers, it helped significantly. However, it didn't cure a specific cancer it was tested on.

Must run, but here are a couple studies about the veggie oil, etc. and AD.

Reactive Oxygen and Nitrogen Species in Alzheimer's Disease
Authors: Aslan M.1; Ozben T.1

Source: Current Alzheimer Research, Volume 1, Number 2, May 2004, pp. 111-119(9)

Publisher: Bentham Science Publishers

< previous article | next article > View Table of Contents

full text options


Abstract:

Age- related neurodegenerative diseases, especially Alzheimer's disease (AD), are an important health problem globally. AD is clinically characterized by loss of memory, reasoning and speech. The frequency of the disease reaches to 20-40% in the population over the age of 85. Autopsy findings have indicated the presence of senile plaques and neurofibrillary tangles in the brains of patients with AD. These two lesions can be seen in small numbers during normal aging of the brain but occur in large amounts during AD. Although the initiating causes leading to AD are unknown, oxidative damage appears to play an important role in the slowly progressive neuronal death that is characteristic of AD. Indeed, in addition to the presence of senile plaques and neurofibrillary tangles, postmortem analysis of AD brain has also identified markers of oxidative stress including protein nitrotyrosine, carbonyls in proteins, lipid oxidation products and oxidized DNA bases. This review discusses the role of reactive oxygen and nitrogen species in the pathogenesis of AD and examines the relevance of antioxidant therapy in altering and / or inhibiting neurodegeneration associated with the disease.

Mercapturate Metabolism of 4-Hydroxy-2-Nonenal ien Rat and Human Cerebrum.
JNEN: Journal of Neuropathology & Experimental Neurology. 62(2):146-153, February 2003.
SIDELL, KATHRIN R. PhD; MONTINE, KATHLEEN S. PhD; PICKLO, MATTHEW J. SR PhD; OLSEN, SANDRA J. MS; AMARNATH, VENTKATARAMAN PhD; MONTINE, THOMAS J. MD, PhD
Abstract:
4-Hydroxy-2-nonenal (HNE), a potent toxin formed in the brain from oxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids, is increased in Alzheimer disease (AD), where it is a proposed effector of amyloid [beta] peptide-mediated neurotoxicity. Detoxification of HNE via the mercapturic acid pathway (MAP) is the primary means by which other organs, such as liver, limit its toxic effects. Here we examined the distribution and activity of MAP detoxification for HNE in cerebrum. Our results showed that rat cerebral cortex and especially synaptosomes were less well equipped to detoxify HNE via the MAP than liver. Glutathione transferases (GSTs) catalyze the committed step in the MAP; GST-mu and GST-pi, but not GST-alpha, were detected in neurons and astrocytes in cerebrum from AD patients and controls. MAP activity in frontal cortex of AD patients was modestly but significantly increased compared to controls. These data suggest that lipid peroxidation may present a greater toxic burden to cerebrum than to other organs, and that a component of response to injury in late stage AD is a slight increase in MAP activity.

(C) 2003 American Association of Neuropathologists, Inc.
 

RobertMac

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Jason said:
Robert you know I agree with you on the animal fats aren't bad, but don't use extreme examples as the primitive Eskimos having 80% of calories coming from fat with no ill effects, without further information.

They lived in an extremely cold climate, slept in Igloos and were on the move all day long. For sedentary North Americans to try to copy their diet without their expenditure of calories would kill them in a short time.

Many of our grandparents also never got the calories we imagine. My Granddad used to tell me beef was a luxury even though he had cows. It wasn't until the late 40's after WWII beef became a regular part of his diet. He worked for many years on eggs and potatoes for lunch, and for a change would get potatoes and eggs for supper. I doubt if he got 1000 calories out of those meals.

The best thing we can do is support people in making reasonable choices that fit easilly into their lifestyle (radical change isn't easy), encourage them not to forego the animal fats but to use them in moderation. The 30% of your calories from fat guideline seems reasonable for anyone with a 'normal' lifestyle.

Jason, I give the people on this board credit for being a lot smarter than some do. I didn't tell anyone to copy this diet and, yes, it is extreme...but where is your proof that it would kill them in a short time? The point is that animal fats aren't something to be feared...I think animal fats are genetically essential building blocks for a healthy humanity. Humanity developed as hunter/gatherers eating meat and fat. The radical diet change I would recommend would be to go back to eating food the way God made it and to stop eating processed foods. The increase in health problems parallels the increase of processed foods in our diets.
 

mrj

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RobertMac said:
Jason said:
Robert you know I agree with you on the animal fats aren't bad, but don't use extreme examples as the primitive Eskimos having 80% of calories coming from fat with no ill effects, without further information.

They lived in an extremely cold climate, slept in Igloos and were on the move all day long. For sedentary North Americans to try to copy their diet without their expenditure of calories would kill them in a short time.

Many of our grandparents also never got the calories we imagine. My Granddad used to tell me beef was a luxury even though he had cows. It wasn't until the late 40's after WWII beef became a regular part of his diet. He worked for many years on eggs and potatoes for lunch, and for a change would get potatoes and eggs for supper. I doubt if he got 1000 calories out of those meals.


{RM, While I appreciate your animal fats information, be careful not to discount the gains in longevity due to modern medicine, and at least to a degree from food preservation/some preservatives as well as refrigeration.

Isn't it possible that some of the seemingly high rates of illnesses, from more miinor chronic things like arthritis, etc. to cancer and other serious ones, could be due in no small part to the fact that so few people die young due to food borne illnesses, pneumonia and other illnesses that have fallen in death rate due to penicillin, etc.

PS, this may be in the wrong location due to haste in posting, but I'm not re-typing it! Laundry needs to get put on the line.

MRJ}



The best thing we can do is support people in making reasonable choices that fit easilly into their lifestyle (radical change isn't easy), encourage them not to forego the animal fats but to use them in moderation. The 30% of your calories from fat guideline seems reasonable for anyone with a 'normal' lifestyle.

Jason, I give the people on this board credit for being a lot smarter than some do. I didn't tell anyone to copy this diet and, yes, it is extreme...but where is your proof that it would kill them in a short time? The point is that animal fats aren't something to be feared...I think animal fats are genetically essential building blocks for a healthy humanity. Humanity developed as hunter/gatherers eating meat and fat. The radical diet change I would recommend would be to go back to eating food the way God made it and to stop eating processed foods. The increase in health problems parallels the increase of processed foods in our diets.
 

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