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Remember the outrage about Bush altering NSA reports?

Whitewing

Well-known member
An assertion he never supported with a single piece of evidence other than his own clouded memory of having seen it on C-Span. :roll:

Well, fortunately for him, he's in self-imposed exile so he'll not have to strap on the knee pads for this one and explain how this doesn't matter, but the last one did....you know the one.....the one that ONLY HE REMEMBERS.

The Benghazi Talking Points

And how they were changed to obscure the truth

Even as the White House strove last week to move beyond questions about the Benghazi attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2012, fresh evidence emerged that senior Obama administration officials knowingly misled the country about what had happened in the days following the assaults. The Weekly Standard has obtained a timeline briefed by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence detailing the heavy substantive revisions made to the CIA’s talking points, just six weeks before the 2012 presidential election, and additional information about why the changes were made and by whom.

As intelligence officials pieced together the puzzle of events unfolding in Libya, they concluded even before the assaults had ended that al Qaeda-linked terrorists were involved. Senior administration officials, however, sought to obscure the emerging picture and downplay the significance of attacks that killed a U.S. ambassador and three other Americans. The frantic process that produced the changes to the talking points took place over a 24-hour period just one day before Susan Rice, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, made her now-famous appearances on the Sunday television talk shows. The discussions involved senior officials from the State Department, the National Security Council, the CIA, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the White House.

The exchange of emails is laid out in a 43-page report from the chairmen of five committees in the House of Representatives. Although the investigation was conducted by Republicans, leading some reporters and commentators to dismiss it, the report quotes directly from emails between top administration and intelligence officials, and it includes footnotes indicating the times the messages were sent. In some cases, the report did not provide the names of the senders, but The Weekly Standard has confirmed the identities of the authors of two critical emails—one indicating the main reason for the changes and the other announcing that the talking points would receive their final substantive rewrite at a meeting of top administration officials on Saturday, September 15.

The White House provided the emails to members of the House and Senate intelligence committees for a limited time and with the stipulation that the documents were available for review only and would not be turned over to the committees. The White House and committee leadership agreed to that arrangement as part of a deal that would keep Republican senators from blocking the confirmation of John Brennan, the president’s choice to run the CIA. If the House report provides an accurate and complete depiction of the emails, it is clear that senior administration officials engaged in a wholesale rewriting of intelligence assessments about Benghazi in order to mislead the public. The Weekly Standard sought comment from officials at the White House, the State Department, and the CIA, but received none by press time. Within hours of the initial attack on the U.S. facility, the State Department Operations Center sent out two alerts. The first, at 4:05 p.m. (all times are Eastern Daylight Time), indicated that the compound was under attack; the second, at 6:08 p.m., indicated that Ansar al Sharia, an al Qaeda-linked terrorist group operating in Libya, had claimed credit for the attack. According to the House report, these alerts were circulated widely inside the government, including at the highest levels. The fighting in Benghazi continued for another several hours, so top Obama administration officials were told even as the fighting was taking place that U.S. diplomats and intelligence operatives were likely being attacked by al Qaeda-affiliated terrorists. A cable sent the following day, September 12, by the CIA station chief in Libya, reported that eyewitnesses confirmed the participation of Islamic militants and made clear that U.S. facilities in Benghazi had come under terrorist attack. It was this fact, along with several others, that top Obama officials would work so hard to obscure.

After a briefing on Capitol Hill by CIA director David Petraeus, Democrat Dutch Ruppersburger, the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, asked the intelligence community for unclassified guidance on what members of Congress could say in their public comments on the attacks. The CIA’s Office of Terrorism Analysis prepared the first draft of a response to the congressman, which was distributed internally for comment at 11:15 a.m. on Friday, September 14 (Version 1 at right). This initial CIA draft included the assertion that the U.S. government “know that Islamic extremists with ties to al Qaeda participated in the attack.” That draft also noted that press reports “linked the attack to Ansar al Sharia. The group has since released a statement that its leadership did not order the attacks, but did not deny that some of its members were involved.” Ansar al Sharia, the CIA draft continued, aims to spread sharia law in Libya and “emphasizes the need for jihad.” The agency draft also raised the prospect that the facilities had been the subject of jihadist surveillance and offered a reminder that in the previous six months there had been “at least five other attacks against foreign interests in Benghazi by unidentified assailants, including the June attack against the British Ambassador’s convoy.”

After the internal distribution, CIA officials amended that draft to include more information about the jihadist threat in both Egypt and Libya. “On 10 September we warned of social media reports calling for a demonstration in front of the [Cairo] Embassy and that jihadists were threatening to break into the Embassy,” the agency had added by late afternoon. And: “The Agency has produced numerous pieces on the threat of extremists linked to al Qaeda in Benghazi and Libya.” But elsewhere, CIA officials pulled back. The reference to “Islamic extremists” no longer specified “Islamic extremists with ties to al Qaeda,” and the initial reference to “attacks” in Benghazi was changed to “demonstrations.”

The talking points were first distributed to officials in the interagency vetting process at 6:52 p.m. on Friday. Less than an hour later, at 7:39 p.m., an individual identified in the House report only as a “senior State Department official” responded to raise “serious concerns” about the draft. That official, whom The Weekly Standard has confirmed was State Department spokesman Victoria Nuland, worried that members of Congress would use the talking points to criticize the State Department for “not paying attention to Agency warnings.”

In an attempt to address those concerns, CIA officials cut all references to Ansar al Sharia and made minor tweaks. But in a follow-up email at 9:24 p.m., Nuland wrote that the problem remained and that her superiors—she did not say which ones—were unhappy. The changes, she wrote, did not “resolve all my issues or those of my building leadership,” (true government leadership, no doubt) and State Department leadership was contacting National Security Council officials directly. Moments later, according to the House report, “White House officials responded by stating that the State Department’s concerns would have to be taken into account.” One official—Ben Rhodes, The Weekly Standard is told, a top adviser to President Obama on national security and foreign policy—further advised the group that the issues would be resolved in a meeting of top administration officials the following morning at the White House.

There is little information about what happened at that meeting of the Deputies Committee. But according to two officials with knowledge of the process, Mike Morrell, deputy director of the CIA, made broad changes to the draft afterwards. Morrell cut all or parts of four paragraphs of the six-paragraph talking points—148 of its 248 words (see Version 2 above). Gone were the reference to “Islamic extremists,” the reminders of agency warnings about al Qaeda in Libya, the reference to “jihadists” in Cairo, the mention of possible surveillance of the facility in Benghazi, and the report of five previous attacks on foreign interests.

What remained—and would be included in the final version of the talking points—was mostly boilerplate about ongoing investigations and working with the Libyan government, together with bland language suggesting that the “violent demonstrations”—no longer “attacks”—were spontaneous responses to protests in Egypt and may have included generic “extremists” (see Version 3 above).

If the story of what happened in Benghazi was dramatically stripped down from the first draft of the CIA’s talking points to the version that emerged after the Deputies Committee meeting, the narrative would soon be built up again. In ensuing days, administration officials emphasized a “demonstration” in front of the U.S. facility in Benghazi and claimed that the demonstrators were provoked by a YouTube video. The CIA had softened “attack” to “demonstration.” But as soon became clear, there had been no demonstration in Benghazi.

More troubling was the YouTube video. Rice would spend much time on the Sunday talk shows pointing to this video as the trigger of the chaos in Benghazi. “What sparked the violence was a very hateful video on the Internet. It was a reaction to a video that had nothing to do with the United States.” There is no mention of any “video” in any of the many drafts of the talking points.

Still, top Obama officials would point to the video to explain Benghazi. President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton even denounced the video in a sort of diplomatic public service announcement in Pakistan. In a speech at the United Nations on September 25, the president mentioned the video several times in connection with Benghazi.

On September 17, the day after Rice appeared on the Sunday shows, Nuland defended Rice’s performance during the daily briefing at the State Department. “What I will say, though, is that Ambassador Rice, in her comments on every network over the weekend, was very clear, very precise, about what our initial assessment of what happened is. And this was not just her assessment, it was also an assessment you’ve heard in comments coming from the intelligence community, in comments coming from the White House.”

It was a preview of the administration’s defense of its claims on Ben­ghazi. After pushing the intelligence community to revise its talking points to fit the administration’s preferred narrative, administration officials would point fingers at the intelligence community when parts of that narrative were shown to be misleading or simply untrue. (Remember, the buck stops no where near The King.)


And at times, members of the intelligence community appeared eager to help. On September 28, a statement from ODNI seemed designed to quiet the growing furor over the administration’s explanations of Benghazi. “In the immediate aftermath, there was information that led us to assess that the attack began spontaneously following protests earlier that day at our embassy in Cairo. We provided that initial assessment to Executive Branch officials and members of Congress, who used that information to discuss the attack publicly and provide updates as they became available.”

The statement continued: “As we learned more about the attack, we revised our initial assessment to reflect new information indicating that it was a deliberate and organized attack carried out by extremists. It remains unclear if any group or person exercised overall command and control of the attack, and if extremist group leaders directed their members to participate. However, we do assess that some of those involved were linked to groups affiliated with, or sympathetic to al Qaeda.”

The statement strongly implies that the information about al Qaeda-linked terrorists was new, a revision of the initial assessment. But it wasn’t. Indeed, the original assessment stated, without qualification, “we do know that Islamic extremists with ties to al Qaeda participated in the attack.”

The statement from the ODNI came not from James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, but from his spokesman, Shawn Turner. When the statement was released, current and former intelligence officials told The Weekly Standard that they found the statement itself odd and the fact that it didn’t come from Clapper stranger still. Clapper was traveling when he was first shown a draft of the statement to go out under his name. It is not an accident that it didn’t.

The revelations about exactly how the talking points were written, revised, and then embellished come amid renewed scrutiny of the administration’s handling of Benghazi. Fox News spoke to a Special Ops soldier last week who raised new questions about what happened during the attack, and the State Department’s inspector general acknowledged that the office would be investigating the production of the Administrative Review Board report on the attacks because of concerns that investigators did not speak to a broad spectrum of individuals with knowledge of the attack and its aftermath. On May 8, the House Oversight and Government Reform committee will hold another hearing on the matter. And Republicans in Congress have asked the administration to release all of the emails, something that would further clarify how the changes came about.


Even though Benghazi happened a long time ago, this one's not going away.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
On Sept. 16, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice hit the media circuit, appearing on all five Sunday talk shows to dispel the notion that the strike was a premeditated terrorist act and to perpetuate the case that it began "spontaneously" out of protests in Egypt. Rice's spot on "Face the Nation" that day was preceded by the new President of Libya Mohammed al-Magariaf, who said his government had "no doubt that this was preplanned, predetermined."

"For there to have been a demonstration on Chris Stevens's front door and him not to have reported it is unbelievable," he said. "I never reported a demonstration; I reported an attack on the consulate. Chris - Chris's last report, if you want to say his final report - is, 'Greg, we are under attack.'

"...I've never been as embarrassed in my life, in my career, as on that day," Hicks continued in his interview with investigators. "The net impact of what has transpired is, [Rice,] the spokesperson of the most powerful country in the world, has basically said that the president of Libya is either a liar of doesn't know what he's talking about. ....My jaw hit the floor as I watched this."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57582929/official-we-knew-benghazi-was-a-terrorist-attack-from-the-get-go/

No, the president of Libya isn't a liar. The liar sits in the White House.
 

Traveler

Well-known member
So many Democrat voters will never know or care. Just keep the free stuff coming. The effect of this on Hillary's future run for the White House will be minimal.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Chill out Whitewing ask any Democrat and he/she will tell you that the on going investigation into what happen in Benghazi is just another REPUBLICAN WITCH HUNT. :x

I myself am glad the Republicans care enough about what happen SO LONG AGO, that they want to get answers for the families of the ones killed in Benghazi, UNLIKE THE DEMOCRAPS.

I pray the Republicans keep up their so called witch hunt or might I say B*TCH HUNT and they take down Hillary for not doing her job then LYING ABOUT IT. I hope when the Whistle blowers are done testifying the Republican House has enough evidence to toss her skanky lying butt in prison and finish the rumors that she will be running in 2016 once and for all. And I hope they don't stop until they have impeached the teleprompter reading lying twit in the White House.

But I doubt they have the balls to do that, as they didn't have the balls to use this whole Benghazi TERRORIST ATTACK mess to stop Obama from getting a second term. They let the Administration skate on this issue so long that the Dems are now figuring it should just be dropped as it happened SO LONG AGO THAT IT SHOULDN"T MATTER ANYMORE. To them IT DOESN'T MATTER FOUR AMERICANS DIE WHILE THEY WATCHED AND DID NOTHING. :mad:

Oh I heard something today that I could not agree with more, that being If GW BUSH is still relevant after 5 years then Benghazi is still relevant after 8 months. :mad:
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
One official—Ben Rhodes, The Weekly Standard is told, a top adviser to President Obama on national security and foreign policy—further advised the group that the issues would be resolved in a meeting of top administration officials the following morning at the White House.

Who is Ben Rhodes?

Ed Lasky at the American Thinker reminds us that the appointment of Rhodes — a failed novelist — to a position on the National Security Council was a shocker:


He earned a master’s degree in fiction-writing from New York University just a few years ago . He did not have a degree in government, diplomacy, national security; nor has he served in the CIA, or the military. He was toiling away not that long ago on a novel called ‘The Oasis of Love” about a mega church in Houston, a dog track, and a failed romance.

Carol Lee of Politico wrote in May, 2009, that

Not long ago, Rhodes was one of the obscure guys who wrote Obama’s campaign speeches in Starbucks and played video games into the early morning hours. Now he attends national security meetings and takes writer’s refuge in a secret office on the third floor of the Eisenhower Executive Office Building.

In such hands has our national security been entrusted.



http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/05/05/administration-knew-benghazi-was-a-terrorist-attack-from-the-get-go/?singlepage=true
 

Tam

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
Who is Ben Rhodes?



He earned a master’s degree in fiction-writing from New York University just a few years ago .

This right here is all that he needed to be qualified to work for Obama. As long as he can make crap up he will fit right in. :wink:
 

littlejoe

Well-known member
Nope. Is it in this list?

50. "I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here." --at the President's Economic Forum in Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002

49. "We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." --Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001

48. "You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." -Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001

47. "I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." --Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001

46. "Tribal sovereignty means that; it's sovereign. I mean, you're a -- you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And therefore the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004 (Watch video clip)

45. "I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah." --at a White House menorah lighting ceremony, Washington, D.C., Dec. 10, 2001 (Listen to audio clip)

44. "You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

43. "The same folks that are bombing innocent people in Iraq were the ones who attacked us in America on September the 11th." --Washington, D.C., July 12, 2007

42. "I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president." --as quoted in Bob Woodward's Bush at War

41. "Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties." --discussing the Iraq war with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson in 2003, as quoted by Robertson

40. 3. "I think I was unprepared for war." –on the biggest regret of his presidency, ABC News interview, Dec. 1, 2008

39. "I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me." --talking to key Republicans about Iraq, as quoted by Bob Woodward

38. "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." --presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004 (Watch video clip)

37. "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." --Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000 (Listen to audio clip)

36. "Do you have blacks, too?" --to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

35. "This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." --as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

34. "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." --on "Good Morning America," Sept. 1, 2005, six days after repeated warnings from experts about the scope of damage expected from Hurricane Katrina

33. "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." --Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

32. "I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound largemouth bass in my lake." --on his best moment in office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7, 2006

31. "They misunderestimated me." --Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
littlejoe said:
Nope. Is it in this list?

50. "I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here." --at the President's Economic Forum in Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002

49. "We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." --Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001

48. "You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." -Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001

47. "I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." --Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001

46. "Tribal sovereignty means that; it's sovereign. I mean, you're a -- you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And therefore the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004 (Watch video clip)

45. "I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah." --at a White House menorah lighting ceremony, Washington, D.C., Dec. 10, 2001 (Listen to audio clip)

44. "You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

43. "The same folks that are bombing innocent people in Iraq were the ones who attacked us in America on September the 11th." --Washington, D.C., July 12, 2007

42. "I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president." --as quoted in Bob Woodward's Bush at War

41. "Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties." --discussing the Iraq war with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson in 2003, as quoted by Robertson

40. 3. "I think I was unprepared for war." –on the biggest regret of his presidency, ABC News interview, Dec. 1, 2008

39. "I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me." --talking to key Republicans about Iraq, as quoted by Bob Woodward

38. "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." --presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004 (Watch video clip)

37. "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." --Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000 (Listen to audio clip)

36. "Do you have blacks, too?" --to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

35. "This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." --as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

34. "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." --on "Good Morning America," Sept. 1, 2005, six days after repeated warnings from experts about the scope of damage expected from Hurricane Katrina

33. "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." --Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

32. "I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound largemouth bass in my lake." --on his best moment in office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7, 2006

31. "They misunderestimated me." --Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

And all that fine work proves exactly what? Bush mangled the English language and said some stupid things? Give me a mangler over a bald-face liar any day.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
littlejoe said:
Nope. Is it in this list?

50. "I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here." --at the President's Economic Forum in Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002

49. "We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." --Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001

48. "You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." -Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001

47. "I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." --Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001

46. "Tribal sovereignty means that; it's sovereign. I mean, you're a -- you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And therefore the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004 (Watch video clip)

45. "I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah." --at a White House menorah lighting ceremony, Washington, D.C., Dec. 10, 2001 (Listen to audio clip)

44. "You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

43. "The same folks that are bombing innocent people in Iraq were the ones who attacked us in America on September the 11th." --Washington, D.C., July 12, 2007

42. "I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president." --as quoted in Bob Woodward's Bush at War

41. "Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties." --discussing the Iraq war with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson in 2003, as quoted by Robertson

40. 3. "I think I was unprepared for war." –on the biggest regret of his presidency, ABC News interview, Dec. 1, 2008

39. "I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me." --talking to key Republicans about Iraq, as quoted by Bob Woodward

38. "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." --presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004 (Watch video clip)

37. "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." --Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000 (Listen to audio clip)

36. "Do you have blacks, too?" --to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

35. "This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." --as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

34. "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." --on "Good Morning America," Sept. 1, 2005, six days after repeated warnings from experts about the scope of damage expected from Hurricane Katrina

33. "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." --Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

32. "I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound largemouth bass in my lake." --on his best moment in office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7, 2006

31. "They misunderestimated me." --Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

And all that fine work proves exactly what? Bush mangled the English language and said some stupid things? Give me a mangler over a bald-face liar any day.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

If you watched GW Bush speak he had a lot of feeling for his country and its
citizens. Sure he made some mistakes, who speaks in public that doesn't?
Unless they have a teleprompter. :roll: And even then mistakes are made.

Whoever kept track of all these
comments must have had a great fear of Bush. Not me. I felt SAFE when
under his watch. Haven't had that feeling for going over 4 years now.
People in other countries respected him. What we have now is a embarrassment
when he deals with foreign countries. Embarrassing and dangerous. Disrespected. Phony.
A liar many times over. Arrogant. Socialist.
And perhaps muslim--good chance of that.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Seems to me that those who go back to find problems with BUSH have a great fear of what he accomplished,,,keeping us safe,,oldtimer,littlejoe both echo the same statement...BLAME BUSH,,, and turn a blind eye to the lies bammie boy has told us
 

littlejoe

Well-known member
Yuppers, always scairt of idjits running the country.

Ineffectual, draft dodging cowards are worse. Or moreso.

While i poke the occasional fun @ this dope, you don't see me bragging up the current one, do ya?

I find it odd that partisians love their idiot and hate the other partys---when truth be told, the folks sniping at each other have far more in common than not, and their respective 'champions' would get tossed into the same reject bin by any electoriate smarter than a shovel handle.
 

Larrry

Well-known member
littlejoe said:
Yuppers, always scairt of idjits running the country.

Ineffectual, draft dodging cowards are worse. Or moreso.

While i poke the occasional fun @ this dope, you don't see me bragging up the current one, do ya?

I find it odd that partisians love their idiot and hate the other partys---when truth be told, the folks sniping at each other have far more in common than not, and their respective 'champions' would get tossed into the same reject bin by any electoriate smarter than a shovel handle.

Back to the old liberal apologist ploy....they all do it.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
littlejoe said:
Yuppers, always scairt of idjits running the country.

Ineffectual, draft dodging cowards are worse. Or moreso.

While i poke the occasional fun @ this dope, you don't see me bragging up the current one, do ya?

I find it odd that partisians love their idiot and hate the other partys---when truth be told, the folks sniping at each other have far more in common than not, and their respective 'champions' would get tossed into the same reject bin by any electoriate smarter than a shovel handle.

When my number came up for the draft, I did my duty and reported. Of course, by then, the war was winding down and very few draftees were being sent to Vietnam. Had circumstances been different, perhaps I'd have considered other options. My oldest brother joined the Navy for 4 years. Guess that makes him a coward for not going to Vietnam.

As for Bush, and many well-connected American yutes of the time, it appears he used his family connections to avoid being turned into hamburger in Vietnam. What a war is was. Many targets off-limits to our warplanes, and those that weren't, were chosen by LBJ and his staff over lunch each week. Imagine that.

But back to Bush. He was many things, but a coward wasn't one of them. Anyone who will strap himself into the pilot's set of jet aircraft has to have a decent set of balls. I've flown a few small planes with assistance, but don't know I'd ever have the nads to go it alone in a jet aircraft.

I will say this about Bush though. At least when it came time to running a war, he was smart enough to let his military commanders do the job. Reminds me of the cartoon with the two military jeeps, one marked Vietnam and one marked Iraq. The Vietnam jeep driver had a list made out by LBJ a mile long of what he could and could not do. The Iraq jeep driver had a piece of paper signed by Bush that said "win".

For all his faults (and he had many), Bush did EXACTLY what I voted for him for in his second term......he worked night and day to fight Islamic threats against the country.

Perhaps you could enlighten us with your perfect pick for a president today. I'd really like to know who the man is that's up to your standards.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
littlejoe said:
Yuppers, always scairt of idjits running the country.

Ineffectual, draft dodging cowards are worse. Or moreso.

While i poke the occasional fun @ this dope, you don't see me bragging up the current one, do ya?

I find it odd that partisians love their idiot and hate the other partys---when truth be told, the folks sniping at each other have far more in common than not, and their respective 'champions' would get tossed into the same reject bin by any electoriate smarter than a shovel handle.

Bring us up to date on Bill Clinton's draft board situation and how he handled it.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
What about joe bidens service??

Joe Biden dodged 5 draft attempts due to school, until 1968 when he suddenly came down with asthma...from high school.
 

Whitewing

Well-known member
TexasBred said:
littlejoe said:
Yuppers, always scairt of idjits running the country.

Ineffectual, draft dodging cowards are worse. Or moreso.

While i poke the occasional fun @ this dope, you don't see me bragging up the current one, do ya?

I find it odd that partisians love their idiot and hate the other partys---when truth be told, the folks sniping at each other have far more in common than not, and their respective 'champions' would get tossed into the same reject bin by any electoriate smarter than a shovel handle.

Bring us up to date on Bill Clinton's draft board situation and how he handled it.

Indeed, though I'm sure LJ would say it's not relevant since he's not praised Clinton either, at least not that I've seen. Which is why I asked the question, just who fits the bill for him?

Back during the Bush years I frequented a political forum where one guy in particular, a Nam vet, savaged Bush day and night about being a coward, AWOL, etc etc. To read the guy's posts, the only thing that mattered about a candidate was his war record.

When McCain was nominated I figured the guy would cut the candidate some slack, fighter pilot, years in prison, etc. Nope. Like OT (who's really quite conservative, you know), the guy looked for every single piece of sleazy and sensational crap on the internet he could find to dinegrate McCain's service.

End the end it became clear that all the wailing and moaning about Bush's service during Vietnam had nothing to do with anything. It was all about the (R) behind the guy's name. Nothing more. Another liberal hypocrite exposed.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Whitewing said:
littlejoe said:
Yuppers, always scairt of idjits running the country.

Ineffectual, draft dodging cowards are worse. Or moreso.

While i poke the occasional fun @ this dope, you don't see me bragging up the current one, do ya?

I find it odd that partisians love their idiot and hate the other partys---when truth be told, the folks sniping at each other have far more in common than not, and their respective 'champions' would get tossed into the same reject bin by any electoriate smarter than a shovel handle.

When my number came up for the draft, I did my duty and reported. Of course, by then, the war was winding down and very few draftees were being sent to Vietnam. Had circumstances been different, perhaps I'd have considered other options. My oldest brother joined the Navy for 4 years. Guess that makes him a coward for not going to Vietnam.

As for Bush, and many well-connected American yutes of the time, it appears he used his family connections to avoid being turned into hamburger in Vietnam. What a war is was. Many targets off-limits to our warplanes, and those that weren't, were chosen by LBJ and his staff over lunch each week. Imagine that.

But back to Bush. He was many things, but a coward wasn't one of them. Anyone who will strap himself into the pilot's set of jet aircraft has to have a decent set of balls. I've flown a few small planes with assistance, but don't know I'd ever have the nads to go it alone in a jet aircraft.

I will say this about Bush though. At least when it came time to running a war, he was smart enough to let his military commanders do the job. Reminds me of the cartoon with the two military jeeps, one marked Vietnam and one marked Iraq. The Vietnam jeep driver had a list made out by LBJ a mile long of what he could and could not do. The Iraq jeep driver had a piece of paper signed by Bush that said "win".

For all his faults (and he had many), Bush did EXACTLY what I voted for him for in his second term......he worked night and day to fight Islamic threats against the country.

Perhaps you could enlighten us with your perfect pick for a president today. I'd really like to know who the man is that's up to your standards.

Well done, Whitewing! :tiphat:
Personally I think it's an insult to Bush to be mentioned in the same breath
with Obama.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
littlejoe said:
Nope. Is it in this list?

50. "I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here." --at the President's Economic Forum in Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002

49. "We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." --Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001

48. "You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." -Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001

47. "I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." --Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001

46. "Tribal sovereignty means that; it's sovereign. I mean, you're a -- you've been given sovereignty, and you're viewed as a sovereign entity. And therefore the relationship between the federal government and tribes is one between sovereign entities." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 6, 2004 (Watch video clip)

45. "I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah." --at a White House menorah lighting ceremony, Washington, D.C., Dec. 10, 2001 (Listen to audio clip)

44. "You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

43. "The same folks that are bombing innocent people in Iraq were the ones who attacked us in America on September the 11th." --Washington, D.C., July 12, 2007

42. "I'm the commander -- see, I don't need to explain -- I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president." --as quoted in Bob Woodward's Bush at War

41. "Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties." --discussing the Iraq war with Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson in 2003, as quoted by Robertson

40. 3. "I think I was unprepared for war." –on the biggest regret of his presidency, ABC News interview, Dec. 1, 2008

39. "I will not withdraw, even if Laura and Barney are the only ones supporting me." --talking to key Republicans about Iraq, as quoted by Bob Woodward

38. "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." --presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004 (Watch video clip)

37. "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." --Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000 (Listen to audio clip)

36. "Do you have blacks, too?" --to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

35. "This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." --as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

34. "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." --on "Good Morning America," Sept. 1, 2005, six days after repeated warnings from experts about the scope of damage expected from Hurricane Katrina

33. "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." --Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

32. "I would say the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5 pound largemouth bass in my lake." --on his best moment in office, interview with the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, May 7, 2006

31. "They misunderestimated me." --Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000


Did you borrow that list from OT? :wink:
 

littlejoe

Well-known member
TexasBred said:
littlejoe said:
Yuppers, always scairt of idjits running the country.

Ineffectual, draft dodging cowards are worse. Or moreso.

While i poke the occasional fun @ this dope, you don't see me bragging up the current one, do ya?

I find it odd that partisians love their idiot and hate the other partys---when truth be told, the folks sniping at each other have far more in common than not, and their respective 'champions' would get tossed into the same reject bin by any electoriate smarter than a shovel handle.

Bring us up to date on Bill Clinton's draft board situation and how he handled it.

Shore. Draft dodging coward. Adiosed overseas.
 

littlejoe

Well-known member
hopalong said:
What about joe bidens service??

Joe Biden dodged 5 draft attempts due to school, until 1968 when he suddenly came down with asthma...from high school.

nother draft dodging coward, same same cheney, etal
 
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