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Replacements troubles

Silver

Well-known member
Had quite a go of it lately. Just got back from Mexico on the 23rd to have heifers dying in the pen at the rate of at least one a day. No stomach troubles (no bloating or discomfort), no coughing, just go out in the morning and there's a dead calf or two in the pen. And of course over Christmas the vets aren't all that helpful. I finally got to talk to the large animal vet on friday, and he said to have a look at the heart and lungs of a recently deceased calf and see if they appeared normal. Well, instead of nice light pink lungs, they were quite dark. He then told me to run them all through and give them 30cc of oxytetracycline. That's alot of medicine, especially when everything is closed on boxing day. Luckily a neighbour had a case of it and we ran them through. So.... now that we're 10 head short we are much smarter. I think. I can still hardly believe how fast this infection could take a healthy appearing calf and kill it stone dead.
 

DOC HARRIS

Well-known member
Silver-

Were they calfhood vacinated for BRD? Had they been eating moldy or dusty hay?

What did they Vet surmise was the problem?? Or did he just tell you to shoot them with 30cc of Oxytetracycline as a "shotgun" remedy without giving you a Diagnosis?? Were the lungs dark with occult blood, or dried epidermal tissue? Or dust? Or green tissue?

DOC HARRIS
 

Silver

Well-known member
Doc, the calves were vaccinated with 8 way and triangle 4. The hay they are eating is the best hay we've had in years; beautiful alfalfa / brome / timothy with no rain. The lungs appeared dark... can't say much more than that. And there were greyish tags between the lungs and the wall. Based on phone discussions with him he figured it to be a hard hitting respiratory infection. There is a bit of winter dysentry going through them right now, combined with extreme cold may create a 'perfect storm' for such a disaster.
He said to look for fluid in the lining of the heart, but I didn't see any and he said that as it was hitting them so fast there may not have been time for it to build up there.
We did not get a concrete diagnosis because a: it being boxing day he didn't want to come for a visit and b: our wonderful laws up here make it very difficult (and expensive) to transport a dead animal from a vets office that arrived there alive.
All I do know is that there have been no more deaths, so far. If it starts again I'm dragging him out whether he likes it or not.
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
That's rough Silver. :(

Do you keep Draxxin on hand? We get the odd one with the start of BRD, pnuemonia, some kind of respiratory problem, it sure works.
We had a heifer that we missed the symptoms on one day last winter, the next day we thought she was a goner. Draxxin brought her back from the dead.
 

John SD

Well-known member
Considering those symptoms or lack thereof on an otherwise healthy appearing calf prior to sudden death. If I had to take a WAG I'd say Haemophilus Somnus.

I once ran into similar trouble with home raised pregnant coming 2 yr old heifers. Some aborted calves and then survived and got better. A couple just decided to up and die, period.

I had the vet post two aborted fetuses and sent to the state lab with inconclusive results. Never any problems like this before or since then I have added H. Somnus to my vaccination program. Prior to that I had not vaccinated for H. Somnus.

Good luck. I hope the worst of your troubles are over.
 

burnt

Well-known member
So sorry to hear of your troubles, Silver. I always thought that there is nothing heavier to pull out of a barn than a dead calf.

Not a nice way to come back from a vacation.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Sorry about your misfortune, Silver. I have been in on several of these wrecks through the years, and they sure take the fun out of ranching very quickly. Hope that you have a handle on the situation now and that things get better real soon.

Back in the fall of 1997, we sold the heavy end of our calves and weaned the lightest steer calves. I had given preconditioning shots to the ones we sold, but decided to give the fall vaccinations to the rest of them after we weaned. Big mistake. That was the year that Peach and I, and our three kids, went to Arizona and rode mules to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. We were gone a total of five days (November 6-10), and by the time we got back there were fifteen dead calves out of the 250 head. My dad and the hired hand were doing their best to stay on top of the situation, but the epidemic broke out viciously fast. They ended up consolidating the calves and medicating the water supply. At least the sickness got over about as quickly as it had come.
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
I also think that vet would be looking for another customer. They are always prompt when their bills are sent.
Our vet was here for Christmas dinner and work here the next day. :D
 

per

Well-known member
Wow Silver, though one. Also been down that canoe trip. We are blessed with an abundance of good bovine vets and lab access here. All the people that we have to put up with to live near the City are almost worth it when you realize that that is where the vets and other professionals want to live as well.
 

Kato

Well-known member
I'd put money on heamophilus too. It can kill them really fast. I would suggest you keep an eye on the rest of them for other problems, especially stiff joints. They may show up later, and if they do, treat it aggressively.

It's not as easy as some might think to get lab work done here. Not like it used to be. Someone may be more up to date on this than I am, but it seems to me that even if we were to take a sample to the vet to send away, we'd need a permit because it's considered SRM. If an animal dies at the vet's we would need a permit to get it home again, and forget ever calling a government office on a holiday for something like that.

Nothing's simple any more.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
WHat sort of temps are they ranging? Seeing any blood in the manure? I'm assuming ranch fresh calves with no contamination exposure, confirm?

I had a neighborthat went through something like this because of poison - in his case an asphalt bottomed silage pit. A high temp should point to infection rather than poison, but is their anything that could be oisoning them. No offense intended, could they be getting stray voltage asnd electrocuting themselves or holding off water.

I like to blame birds for coccideosis and coonpoop on hay - heamophilus is supposed to require nose to nose contact. If they're stocking up in the dew claws I'd lean brd. If you're interested, Dr Droge out of Eureka Ks is a hell of a CSI even on the phone.
 

Silver

Well-known member
Talking to the vet on the phone we pretty well ruled out poison. These are ranch fresh calves, never been off the place, in the same feed pen we've been feeding calves for decades. Great feed, decent water. One thing that probabley hasn't helped is the extreme cold. It's been 40 below at night for ages, colder with the windchill. I allway like to say we've never lost an animal due to weather conditions in this country, but weather has hastened the demise of a few.
It appears as though the vet was right, as we haven't lost another calf since shooting them up with bio-mycin. Hopefully this saga has come to an end.
Thanks all for the feedback, it's interesting to get different takes on a deal like this.
 

Kato

Well-known member
We've found in the feedlot over the years that a real good cold snap will soon show if there's something going on in a herd. Especially if it's involving lungs. That cold air is hard on them.

We lost a feeder ourselves the other day. He was fine one day, and looking just a little down the next morning. Not even that bad, just a bit dumpy. Hubby walked him up to the chute to treat him, without even getting him excited on the way, and then watched him lay down and die right on the spot. I'm sure if we opened him up there would be a heart issue there.

We even had one a few years ago die with his head in the feeder. Just fell to the ground. The vet opened that one up and found his heart was abscessed. It was full of pus. Really gross. He told us it was heamophilus. These things just happen sometimes.

Glad to hear yours have settled down for you. :D :D :D It's nice when they respond so easily.
 

George

Well-known member
About 30 years ago I kept around 75 head in each of 3 two acre feed lots and a 1/2 acre feed floor. Lot one was light weights ( bought at about 450# ) fed twice daily, Lot two was heavier ( moved to here at about 600# )and still fed twice daily but trying to feed enough so that the bunks were not clean till about 1/2 hour prior to feed time. Lot three ( about 800# + ) was on full feed getting larger. Lot four was on total concrete and still full feed.

One morning I had a problem in lot 2 with 2 calves and the vet ( we had a very comprehensive program and he was on hand every time an animal came on the farm for all needed treatment ) was here in less than an hour. While he was here we had a major problem and by the time he left ( about 5 hours ) we had 6 dead animals all in lot two. Lot one got the same feed as lot two just not as much and lot two and three both had the same creek for water. this creek goes on thru the pastures where the brood cows were and no problems with any of them.

No problems in any of the other lots.

Vet send samples off to Purdue - - - -never did find out what happened - - - calves would start acting very strange and die in about 30 minutes. The problem went away as quick as it came and never returned.

Bad feed was rulled out as there was no problem in lot one and samples were sent as well. Bad water was ruled out as there was no problem in lot three. The lots were devided with Hi Tensil wire with two strands hot so they could have had nose to nose contact with the other lots.

I fed cattle in these lots for about 10 years ( about 600 head a year ) and thankfully this was the only major problem we had. I guess sometime we are not going to find out what causes something and just be glad its gone.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
good the bleeding has stopped, like Soapweed sez, the cattle business will sure keep a person humble. I've never fed in neg40. In Kansas we fight respiratory until it ggets cold - but it never gets that cold. I hope the rest of the pen is doing well. Usually its not the ones you drag that cost your a$$, its the rest of the pen not doing very well.

Ranch fresh calves can end up pretty fragile because you do a good job limiting their exposure to disease. Good luck with the rest of the pen
 

John SD

Well-known member
Kato, I was present when the vet posted one of the aborted calves I took in.

What you describe around the heart and internal organs as he was doing the posting is what prompted the vet to think Haemophilis. He said he had seen it in swine and I believe he said the condition in that species was something called Glasser's Disease.

Silver, I'm glad you seem to have a handle on it now and hope the worst of the damage is contained. At this point I stand by my initial response. You may never know for certain.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Back in 1985 winter reared its ugly head in early November, and it came to stay. I had my calves weaned then but not sold. The market was not great and the buzzword at the time was "retained ownership." It sounded like a viable option. I had 140 steers and my dad put in another 60 head so we could send two truckloads of a hundred head each to a feedlot in southern Nebraska. Then the fun started. Every two weeks a feed bill would come in the mail, along with a report of how many had died since the last mailing. I ended up losing about a dozen head of those steers to haemophilus. Feed was high and the cattle sold in June of 1986 for the cheapest fat price that had been or was to be for quite a period of years. It was such a sickening situation that I never even put pencil to paper to figure out the loss. The answer was something that I really didn't want to know, but wanted to forget all about as soon as possible. I have retained ownership on weaned calves three times in my life and lost money two of those times. That is a game that I am more than happy to let others play instead. :wink: :)
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
Soapweed said:
Back in 1985 winter reared its ugly head in early November, and it came to stay. I had my calves weaned then but not sold. The market was not great and the buzzword at the time was "retained ownership." It sounded like a viable option. I had 140 steers and my dad put in another 60 head so we could send two truckloads of a hundred head each to a feedlot in southern Nebraska. Then the fun started. Every two weeks a feed bill would come in the mail, along with a report of how many had died since the last mailing. I ended up losing about a dozen head of those steers to haemophilus. Feed was high and the cattle sold in June of 1986 for the cheapest fat price that had been or was to be for quite a period of years. It was such a sickening situation that I never even put pencil to paper to figure out the loss. The answer was something that I really didn't want to know, but wanted to forget all about as soon as possible. I have retained ownership on weaned calves three times in my life and lost money two of those times. That is a game that I am more than happy to let others play instead. :wink: :)


As my Dad used to say, "At least you got the use of them Soap".

Wondering how many on here use a haemophilus added to their blackleg/7way vaccine. We have been using it since it became available and feel it has more than paid for itself.
 
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