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Republican Debate

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aplusmnt

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Well once again I did not get to watch the Debate. Any front runners emerge? Any interesting things come up?

I will tell you what I did get to see. I have never gotten to compare oranges to oranges on the Liberal media as much as I can on this Debate issue.

I do not have cable or satellite so I only get the the 3 major networks well I am up late at nights and will get my network news fix on CBS, they have News all night from around midnight til 4 a.m. or so.

Well last night when their coverage came on for the Republican Debate I was interested in seeing what they had to say. But all they showed was one question to Rudy Guiliano about the supreme court and abortion. They whole clip was about 10 seconds or less long. They showed nothing from the other candidates or had any commentary about it.

Last week I watched the same exact news program at the same time about the Democratic Debate but on it they showed bunches of comments, and had commentary about how the candidates replied to the war in Iraq, Bush etc.....

So I best I can figure based on these two mirroring news coverages the Media is about 5 times more bias in favor of the libs.
 
I didn't see it, either. I heard Michelle Malkin and Morris talking about it, but I really didn't pay much attention after she opened up talking about it being a crowded circle-jerk. Well...I don't think that's exactly what she called it, but I think that's what she meant.


Here's what Peggy Noonan had to say about it in the WSJ:


Here's how I saw it:

All the candidates save one, the obscure but intellectually serious Ron Paul, seemed to be trying to show they will not break with the Bush administration on the war, but that, at the same time, they each know a heck of a lot more than President Bush. There were criticisms of the administration's handling of Iraq, with the first and strongest coming from Mr. McCain. Mike Huckabee had the most spirited explanation. The administration listened to "civilians in silk ties" rather than generals "with mud and blood on their boots." On Iran, the candidates seemed in general to be indignant to the point of bellicosity.

If we view the proceedings in vulgar and reductive Who Won, Who Lost terms, and let's, Mitt Romney won, Rudy Giuliani lost, and John McCain is still in. The moderator, Chris Matthews, seemed to think he was on "Hardball" and had to keep the pups, punks and rubes--that would be the candidates--in line. He cut them off--"Congressman, that's time!"--and occasionally hectored. One of the stars was the buzzing clock. It interrupted all thought.

Mr. McCain seemed alert, and full of effort. Somehow he seemed both high-energy and creaky. He uncompromisingly supported fighting it out in Iraq. He also had the best line of the night. When Mitt Romney was tagged for saying catching Osama is not of pre-eminent importance--"It's more than Osama bin Laden"--Mr. McCain quickly pounced. "I'll follow him to the gates of hell." Go, baby. But there was something "Poignant Echoes of the Past" about his performance. He didn't make it new, but I think he made it more moving.

Mr. Giuliani seemed unsure at first, and was badly lit, or badly made up since he had the same lighting as everyone else. He did not make a strong impression until he spoke on abortion, and then it was a bad one. He seemed to support overturning Roe v. Wade and also not overturning it. Whatever. He shouldn't be surprised by such questions, and should have enough respect to have thought it through. His New York riff seemed tired. His problem is the same as Hillary Clinton's. Both of them do well by themselves. Both seem diminished when standing and vying with others. They are solo acts.

The statuesque Mr. Romney had a certain good-natured command, a presidential voice, and a surprising wiliness. He seemed happy to be there, and in the mysterious way that some people seem to dominate, he dominated. He had a quick witted answer when Mr. Matthews asked him if the Roman Catholic Church should deny communion to pro-abortion politicians. What, said, Matthews, would he say to the bishops? "I don't say anything to Roman Catholic Bishops," he said. "They can do whatever the heck they want!" He deftly flipped it into a church-state issue. He did some light-handed and audience-pleasing Clinton bashing, and was confident on stem-cell research. But he was weak on Iraq, predictable, like someone who knows the answer that polls right with the base. How can you be utterly banal about a war, and such a controversial one?

Sam Brownback seems a very nice and sleepy fellow who means it on the social issues. Jim Gilmore, Duncan Hunter and Tommy Thompson all got sort of jumbled together, and seemed to merge into one, "The Guy You Don't Know and Don't Think You Have To." The disappointment was Tom Tancredo, who can be colorful and passionate on the stump, and not only on immigration, and who was expected by some to be the wildcard, the Mike Gravel of the GOP debate. He seemed hemmed in by the format, and looked as if he knew it, getting, halfway in, the disheartened look of a talk-show guest who just realized he left it in the green room.

Each had flubs and false moves. Something tells me it will all get more interesting, and not only because Fred Thompson will get in.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010023
 
I listened to a couple of the News stations comments about the debate...Interesting comments- only one I heard mentioned as a real loser was Guiliani, because of his indecisive/two faced answers on whether he supports abortion...Pretty much a draw for the others with no one shining except McCains comments about chasing Osama Bin Laden to the "gates of Hell"....

One comment that FOX news talking heads all brought up tho was that the Democratic Party seems much more united and has little division on issues- where the Republican Party is all over the place with little agreement on anything....

And all the news agencies commented about how Bush's name was only mentioned once-- and that all the Republican candidates are trying to seperate themselves from him....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Article Posted: 05/06/2007 8:28:10 AM
Newsweek Poll: Bush Approval Rating Worst in a Generation

It's hard to say which is worse news for Republicans: that George W. Bush now has the worst approval rating of an American president in a generation, or that he seems to be dragging every '08 Republican presidential candidate down with him. But According to the new Newsweek Poll, the public's approval of Bush has sunk to 28 percent, an all- time low for this president in our poll, and a point lower than Gallup recorded for his father at Bush Sr.'s nadir. The last president to be this unpopular was Jimmy Carter who also scored a 28 percent approval in 1979. This remarkably low rating seems to be casting a dark shadow over the GOP's chances for victory in '08. The Newsweek Poll finds each of the leading Democratic contenders beating the Republican frontrunners in head-to-head matchups.

Perhaps that explains why Republican candidates, participating in their first major debate this week, mentioned Bush's name only once, but Ronald Reagan's 19 times. (The debate was held at Reagan's presidential library.)

A majority of Americans believe Bush is not politically courageous: 55 percent vs. 40 percent. And nearly two out of three Americans (62 percent) believe his recent actions in Iraq show he is "stubborn and unwilling to admit his mistakes," compared to 30 percent who say Bush's actions demonstrate that he is "willing to take political risks to do what's right."

http://www.swnebr.net/newspaper/cgi-bin/articles/articlearchiver.pl?160584
 
I got tired of them invoking the name of Ronald Reagan every other word.

It seems as if they could not come up with something on their own...so they had to revert to the 'days of yesteryear'.

It's really way to early to read much into either parties debate at this time .
 
Oldtimer said:
And all the news agencies commented about how Bush's name was only mentioned once-- and that all the Republican candidates are trying to seperate themselves from him....
I think that's probably correct. In fact, I think any Republican that has a chance to win the general election is almost going to have to be somebody from outside of the Washington scene. Not a bad idea, anyway.
 
kolanuraven said:
It's really way too early to read much into either party's debate at this time.
I agree with kola. :shock: WTF? I can't believe I typed that...

It's really too early to even listen to much of it, as far as I'm concerned. They'll all change their positions more times than you can count in the next year. I think everybody will be sick of it by this time next year.
 
Texan said:
kolanuraven said:
It's really way too early to read much into either party's debate at this time.
I agree with kola. :shock: WTF? I can't believe I typed that...

It's really too early to even listen to much of it, as far as I'm concerned. They'll all change their positions more times than you can count in the next year. I think everybody will be sick of it by this time next year.

Heard a replay on radio of some bits and pieces and I will have to agree with Kolan also :shock: But they used the words Ronald Reagan way to much. As much as I would like to see a Ronald Reagan type conservative get elected, I am not sure if any of them are one. I would like to see some actions speaking instead of them thinking they can just throw his name around and that will do.
 
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


This is WAY too scary...both of you agree with little ol' me!!!


Man, this must be some sort of ' sign'....but of what????
 
The problems with the Reps is that not one is a Conservative. About all of them belong in the Dem party.
The best they have is Fred Thompson, Tom Tancredo, and Ron Paul who is actually a Libertarian. Any true conservative has been skewered by the Liberal press and many Reps stand by and let them do it.
Not many have the grip to hang on to RR shirttail without letting go.
Hey what about Michael Reagan..................
 
PT: Do you think Fred T will carry a lot of weight in the polls due to his ' presence'?

I am sure he's just as, if not more, qualified that most of the lot...but he has such a presence that people notice. He carries himself well and is well spoken and does not seem to talk off the cuff.

And it's like that Holiday Inn Express commercial.... He played a president on TV once!!!
 
If Jimmy Carter can well anyone has a shot. OH, I forgot Barack if he has a shot FT sure does.

Did ole Slick Willy ever do a Holiday Inn Express commercial.........he woulda been good.
 
I don't have a television so I didn't see the dabate. I do like to read so I get most of my news off the internet. It seems to me most of the news media ignore or dismis Ron Paul.

Below is a little information about him I found on the internet and below that is a transcript of his part in the debate that I came accross on another forum.


WHO IS RON PAUL?
HE VOTED AGAINST PATRIOT ACT, IRAQ WAR, REGULATING INTERNET...

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas) is the leading advocate for freedom in our nation's capital. As a member of the U.S. House of Representatives, Dr. Paul tirelessly works for limited constitutional government, low taxes, free markets, and a return to sound monetary policies. He is known among his congressional colleagues and his constituents for his consistent voting record.

Dr. Paul never votes for legislation unless the proposed measure is expressly authorized by the Constitution. In the words of former Treasury Secretary William Simon, Dr. Paul is the "one exception to the Gang of 535" on Capitol Hill.

Ron Paul was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He graduated from Gettysburg College and the Duke University School of Medicine, before proudly serving as a flight surgeon in the U.S. Air Force during the 1960s.

He and his wife Carol moved to Texas in 1968, where he began his medical practice in Brazoria County. As a specialist in obstetrics/gynecology, Dr. Paul has delivered more than 4,000 babies. He and Carol, who reside in Lake Jackson, Texas, are the proud parents of five children and have 17 grandchildren.

While serving in Congress during the late 1970s and early 1980s, Dr. Paul's limited-government ideals were not popular in Washington. In 1976, he was one of only four Republican congressmen to endorse Ronald Reagan for president.

During that time, Congressman Paul served on the House Banking committee, where he was a strong advocate for sound monetary policy and an outspoken critic of the Federal Reserve's inflationary measures. He was an unwavering advocate of pro-life and pro-family values.

Dr. Paul consistently voted to lower or abolish federal taxes, spending and regulation, and used his House seat to actively promote the return of government to its proper constitutional levels. In 1984, he voluntarily relinquished his House seat and returned to his medical practice.

Dr. Paul returned to Congress in 1997 to represent the 14th congressional district of Texas. He presently serves on the House Committee on Financial Services and the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. He continues to advocate a dramatic reduction in the size of the federal government and a return to constitutional principles.

Congressman Paul's consistent voting record prompted one of his congressional colleagues to say, "Ron Paul personifies the Founding Fathers' ideal of the citizen-statesman. He makes it clear that his principles will never be compromised, and they never are." Another colleague observed, "There are few people in public life who, through thick and thin, rain or shine, stick to their principles. Ron Paul is one of those few."

Brief Overview of Congressman Paul's Record

He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.

He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.

He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.

He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.

Congressman Paul introduces numerous pieces of substantive legislation each year, probably more than any single member of Congress.

ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/html/AboutRon_fx.html


Moderator: Congressman Paul, you voted against the war. Why are all your fellow Republicans up here wrong?

Representative Ron Paul (R-Texas): That's a very good question. And you might ask the question, why are 70 percent of the American people now wanting us out of there, and why did the Republicans do so poorly last year?

So I would suggest that we should look at foreign policy. I'm suggesting very strongly that we should have a foreign policy of non- intervention, the traditional American foreign policy and the Republican foreign policy.

Throughout the 20th century, the Republican Party benefited from a non-interventionist foreign policy. Think of how Eisenhower came in to stop the Korean War. Think of how Nixon was elected to stop the mess in Vietnam.

How did we win the election in the year 2000? We talked about a humble foreign policy: No nation-building; don't police the world. That's conservative, it's Republican, it's pro-American -- it follows the founding fathers.

And, besides, it follows the Constitution.

I tried very hard to solve this problem before we went to war by saying, "Declare war if you want to go to war. Go to war, fight it and win it, but don't get into it for political reasons or to enforce U.N. resolutions or pretend the Iraqis were a national threat to us.

-----
Moderator: Congressman Paul, Pete from Rochester Hills, Michigan wants to ask you this. If you were president, would you work to phase out the IRS?

(Laughter)

Paul: Immediately.

(Laughter)
Moderator: That's what they call a softball.

Paul: And you can only do that if you change our ideas about what the role of government ought to be.

If you think that government has to take care of us, from cradle to grave, and if you think our government should police the world and spend hundreds of billions of dollars on a foreign policy that we cannot manage, you can't (ph) get rid of the IRS; but, if you want to lower taxes and if you want the government to quit printing the money to come up with shortfall and cause all the inflation, you have to change policy.

Moderator: OK, let me go to -- Dr. Paul, how do you reconcile this moral, moral leadership kind of role of conservatism with the very libertarian strain of conservatism -- the Barry Goldwater conservatism that you represent? How do you put together what he just said with what you believe in a unified national purpose?

Paul: Well, you do it by understanding of what the goal of government ought to be. If the goal of government is to be the policeman of the world, you lose liberty. And if the goal is to promote liberty, you can unify all segments. The freedom message brings us together; it doesn't divide us.

I believe that when we overdo our military aggressiveness, it actually weakens our national defense. I mean, we stood up to the Soviets. They had 40,000 nuclear weapons. Now we're fretting day in and day and night about third-world countries that have no army, navy or air force, and we're getting ready to go to war.

But the principle, the moral principle, is that of defending liberty and minimizing the scope of government.

Moderator: I'm sorry, we have to go on. We have to go on.

-----
Moderator: Congressman Paul, Bob Hussay (ph) from Minnesota writes that perhaps the most important skill a good president must have is the ability to make good, sound decisions, often in a crisis situation.

Please cite an example when you had to make a decision in crisis.

Paul: I wonder if he's referring to a political decision like running for office, or something like that.

(Laughter)
I guess, in medicine, I made a lot of critical decisions.

Paul: I mean, you're called upon all the time to make critical, life-saving decisions. But I can't think of any one particular event where I made a critical decision that affected a lot of other people. But I think all our decisions we make in politics are critical.

My major decision, political decision, which was a constitutional decision, was to urge for (inaudible) years that this country not go to war in Iraq.

---

Moderator: OK.

Dr. Paul?
Paul: Well, in my first week, I already got rid of the income tax.

In my second week, I would get rid of the inflation tax. It's a tax that nobody talks about.

We live way beyond our means, with a foreign policy we can't afford, and an entitlement system that we have encouraged. We print money for it. The value of the money goes down, and poor people pay higher prices.

That is a tax. That's a transfer of wealth from the poor and the middle class to Wall Street. Wall Street's doing quite well, but the inflation tax is eating away at the middle class of this country. We need to get rid of the inflation tax with sound money.

----

Moderator: Dr. Paul.

Paul: I am absolutely opposed to a national ID card. This is a total contradiction of what a free society is all about.

Paul: The purpose of government is to protect the secrecy and the privacy of all individuals, not the secrecy of government. We don't need a national ID card.

---
Moderator: .... should Bill Clinton be back in the White House? Is it good for America? I mean, it is a possibility here.

Moderator: OK.

Dr. Paul?
Paul: I am known for sticking to principle and not flip- flopping. I voted to impeach him, so...

---

Moderator: Congressman Paul, Carrie from Connecticut asks: Do you trust the mainstream media?

(Laughter)

Paul: Some of them.

(Laughter)

But I trust the Internet a lot more, and I trust the freedom of expression. And that's why we should never interfere with the Internet. That's why I've never voted to regulate the Internet. Even when there's the temptation to put bad things on the Internet, regulation of bad and good on the Internet should be done differently.

But, no, there's every reason to believe that we have enough freedom in this country to have freedom of expression. And that's what is important. And whether or not we trust the mainstream or not, I think you pick and choose. There are some friends, and some aren't so friendly.

Moderator: Thank you, Doctor.

That's time.

------

Moderator: Dr. Paul?

Paul: I certainly would continue on my earlier theme that foreign policy needs to be changed -- Mr. Republican, Robert Taft, we have a statue of him in Washington.

He advocated the same foreign policy that I advocate.

I would work very hard to protect the privacy of American citizens, being very, very cautious about warrantless searches. And I would guarantee that I would never abuse habeas corpus.

ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18478985
 
Here is an interesting insight to the election from a website I've followed for several years-that has been quite accurate in his predicting and reading the polling.... But like everyone says- still way too early...

----------------------------------------------


News from the Votemaster
Richard Baehr wrote a very interesting piece http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/05/fred_thompson_the_gops_souther.html
on Fred Thompson. The bottom line is: be careful what you wish for; you might get it. A lot of GOP conservatives are moaning about the current presidential field: Giuliani has a Clinton-sized zipper problem, McCain is too much of a maverick, and Romney can't make up his mind what he's for. Enter the savior: Fred Thompson.

But do the Republicans really need a southern conservative at all? And if they do, what's wrong with Mike Huckabee, an ordained Baptist minister with a proven track record as governor of Arkansas? Baehr makes the point that politics is becoming regionalized.

In all of New England, the GOP has but a single House seat (Chris Shays in Connecticut) and they are hugely outnumbered in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware and Maryland. The North is lost. So is the Pacific Coast, with Arnold being a bit of an anomaly (a Republican who acts like a liberal Democrat). Of course, the South is fairly strongly Republican, although with Democratic governors in Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Louisiana, the GOP has to at least pay attention.

No, the real battles are going to be fought in the Midwest and the Interior West, and these states, which have long been Republican, are trending Democratic, what with the governors of Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Kansas, and even Iowa all being Democrats. The problem is that westerners tend to be libertarians--keep the government off my ranch and out of my life--and Southern conservatism is strongly in favor of government interference in personal affairs (abortion, gay marriage, Terri Schiavo, etc.). A slogan like "Vote for me and I'll have the government legislate good morality" just doesn't cut it in the West. The Republican candidate has to have substantial appeal in the West in order to win. In that regard, the pro-choice, pro-gay Giuliani might not be such a bad choice and neither would McCain. Running a Southerner as the Republican nominee will absolutely clinch Alabama for sure, but it wasn't really in play to start with.

For the Democrats, the situation is quite different. Running liberals from the Northeast, say John Kerry or Hillary Clinton, makes Massachusetts a slam dunk, but that doesn't play as well everywhere. If the Democrats were to go for a Southern ticket, say John Edwards (NC) combined with Wesley Clark (AR) or Jim Webb (VA), all of a sudden Virginia, North Carolina, and Arkansas would be in play. It's an odd situation, but the Republicans need to avoid a Southerner and the Democrats might be advised to pick one. Karl Rove probably would agree with this analysis: Hit the other guy where he is strongest.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/
 
The Republican candidate has to have substantial appeal in the West in order to win. In that regard, the pro-choice, pro-gay Giuliani might not be such a bad choice

first the liberal media hyped him....now someone comes along and says being pro abortion, and liberal will play well with republicans...I doubt it....

Is he (really) in favor of any Republican positions?
 
I watched tonites debates-- and thought McCain was the winner hands down for answering questions, even tho he doesn't support every position exactly as I feel....Ron Paul really impressed me tho- altho I don't think he's electable...

To me Gilmore spent the night doing the Texas two step and never even came close to answering any question--- shouldn't even be there :roll:
 
Oldtimer said:
I watched tonites debates-- and thought McCain was the winner hands down for answering questions, even tho he doesn't support every position exactly as I feel....Ron Paul really impressed me tho- altho I don't think he's electable...

To me Gilmore spent the night doing the Texas two step and never even came close to answering any question--- shouldn't even be there :roll:

I wish the networks would have had it, I could have actually watched it tonight. How did Giuliani do?
 
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
I watched tonites debates-- and thought McCain was the winner hands down for answering questions, even tho he doesn't support every position exactly as I feel....Ron Paul really impressed me tho- altho I don't think he's electable...

To me Gilmore spent the night doing the Texas two step and never even came close to answering any question--- shouldn't even be there :roll:

I wish the networks would have had it, I could have actually watched it tonight. How did Giuliani do?

I thought he got whammed pretty good- on abortion, taxes, gun control, everything-- but the FOX call in polls put him in third behind Romney and Paul...
 
Oldtimer said:
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
I watched tonites debates-- and thought McCain was the winner hands down for answering questions, even tho he doesn't support every position exactly as I feel....Ron Paul really impressed me tho- altho I don't think he's electable...

To me Gilmore spent the night doing the Texas two step and never even came close to answering any question--- shouldn't even be there :roll:

I wish the networks would have had it, I could have actually watched it tonight. How did Giuliani do?

I thought he got whammed pretty good- on abortion, taxes, gun control, everything-- but the FOX call in polls put him in third behind Romney and Paul...

Abortion, Gun Control and Gay rights will be his biggest issues to get the Republican nod, his plus is he would be able to beat Hillary.
 
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
aplusmnt said:
I wish the networks would have had it, I could have actually watched it tonight. How did Giuliani do?

I thought he got whammed pretty good- on abortion, taxes, gun control, everything-- but the FOX call in polls put him in third behind Romney and Paul...

Abortion, Gun Control and Gay rights will be his biggest issues to get the Republican nod, his plus is he would be able to beat Hillary.



The ' war' is NOT an issue with Rep's then????????
 
kolanuraven said:
aplusmnt said:
Oldtimer said:
I thought he got whammed pretty good- on abortion, taxes, gun control, everything-- but the FOX call in polls put him in third behind Romney and Paul...

Abortion, Gun Control and Gay rights will be his biggest issues to get the Republican nod, his plus is he would be able to beat Hillary.



The ' war' is NOT an issue with Rep's then????????

I do not think that will be an issue on him within the Republican Party. His up hill battle will be Abortion, Gun Control and Gay rights.
 

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