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Rice and Canada

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rancher

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Seems to me Canada picks when they want to be North American and when they don't.


LONDON -- Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Tuesday told Canadian diplomats of her disappointment over Ottawa's decision to opt out of a U.S.-led anti-ballistic missile shield program.

U.S. officials have made no secret of their unhappiness with the Canadian stance. Last week Rice deferred plans to visit America's northern neighbor early in her tenure at the State Department, although her spokesman said the change was not a sign of Rice's displeasure.

Canadian diplomats requested a short meeting Tuesday with Rice on the sidelines of an international conference on Palestinian reform. She met for 10 to 15 minutes with Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew, said a Bush administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity.


The official said Rice made clear her disappointment with Canada's stance.

Canada announced its decision on the missile defense system last week, setting off a prickly exchange between the U.S. ambassador to Canada and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin. U.S.-Canada relations were already clouded by strong Canadian opposition to the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

At the White House, presidential spokesman Scott McClellan said the United States will "continue to work with Canada and cooperate with them on shared defense priorities. We've had good cooperation on defense issues in the past, and we will in the future."

McClellan said the missile-defense issue was likely to come up at a three-way meeting this month between Bush, Martin and Mexican President Vicente Fox.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said Rice would meet with her Canadian counterpart and discuss a "mutually convenient date" for her trip.

An early visit to Canada had been among Rice's early priorities as secretary of state. She plans to visit the United States' southern neighbor, Mexico, next week.

Martin said last Friday that the United States must get permission before firing on any incoming missiles over Canada.

"This is our airspace, we're a sovereign nation and you don't intrude on a sovereign nation's airspace without seeking permission," Martin said.

At the same time, he acknowledged that it was the Americans who would ultimately determine whether to shoot down an incoming missile from a terrorist or a rogue state.

"I don't think that anybody else expected that there would be any other finger on the button other than an American," he said.

Outgoing U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci said in late January, "We think it's in Canada's sovereign interest to be in the room to decide what's going to happen when there's an incoming missile."

Cellucci denied media reports that Bush told Martin that a future president might question why American taxpayers were funding Canadian defense if Ottawa didn't support the U.S. missile shield.
 

SASH

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That's our boy, Paul. I thought he was supposed to be the one who was mending the fences that were broken by the Chretien Liberals. Not doing much of a job it seems.
 

Broke Cowboy

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You can blame that south Ontario area. Canada is rapidly becoming irrelevant because of the socialist values espoused by their government.

Lots of good people there - but far more that like to sit around with their hands out.

BC
 

Murgen

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I don't disagree that Canada should have looked closer at signing the missile agreement, but remember also that they have just committed billions to the military to help with North American security. It was said somewhere by Martin that the increased Military Budget would go a lot further in helping with future security than the missile program.
 

Broke Cowboy

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Murgen

You are not quire correct when you write:

they have just committed billions to the military to help with North American security

While it looks like it is true on the surface, the military gets an extra 500 million this year and a bit more next year. The remainder does not come until the last two years in the forecast budget.

By then the present government will have changed, a new bdget will come forth wiping out all of the empty promises Mr. Dithers made.

So while it looks great there will be no real money going to the military. It is a joke.

Read this closely - There will be NO big bucks to the Canuck military and Mr. Dithers planned it that way.

In fact any country that has a leader known as Mr. Dithers has some real problems.

Population breeds votes. Cities have them. I would hesitate to say Hog Town is a military supporter unless you consider they called out the military to plow snow a few years back when they got - what - two inches?

The Canadian military used to be something - now it could not fight it's way out of a wet paper bag if it was givn a sharp pair of scissors.

They do not even have enough boots for their people - soldiers buy their own at the American PX!

You in Hog Town on the hill tomorrow? PM me if so.

BC
 

Murgen

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Broke Cowboy, you are correct, Canada let military spending decrease a long time ago, to the point where it will never be corrected. But worldwide we are still known as peace makers and our reputation in that still carries some weight.

Just my opinion, but we are a greater value to the US with this reputation, because we can still negotiate in a peaceful way. Our aid in funding of the missile program would do nothing but tarnish that reputation with other countries, to the point of being looked at as a puppy dog of the US.

It's funny that we sit back and ask the Canadian Government to have some backbone, and then when they do, we complain again.

By the way, the rural areas of Ontario voted Conservative, like me.
 
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Anonymous

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Murgen--What do you think about the allegations coming out against Canada's UN rep- Louise Frechette? Looks like she was tied up to her neck in the oil for food scandal and led the coverup.....It will be interesting to see what countries made what-- so far all the countries that voted against supporting the US in the Iraq war had their hands in the till-- could that have been a factor in their stance?.....
 

Broke Cowboy

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Murgen

There is no negotiation with terrorism.

You negotiate with your knee on his chest and your knife at his throat.

Canucks are no longer known as peace makers - this is a fact that is NOT reported accurately - and the Canuck yellow media and the red government of Canada are to blame.

Canucks coined the term "soft power" because they have no other capability.

If you cannot MAKE the peace, you cannot keep it. Under armed, under manned, ill equipped, training is under funded, ships tied up in Halifax and Victoria, no spares for armoured equipment, no bombs for the F-18, no bullets for the soldiers rifles, helicopters and transport aircraft older than most of their pilots, cannot ship men and equipment anywhere in the world without the help of the U.S or the ancient enemy - the Soviets. And more and more and more. Canucks spend less on defence than Lithuania! That should tell you something.

Canucks rely on the U.S of A. to defend their borders. I wonder what the Canuck government will do when the U.S. of A. decides to use the N.W. Passage on a regular basis? It is coming. Canucks have always thought of the arctic as their own. I believe that will change as time moves along - watch for the Stars and Bars to be there.

Canucks lease Russian Anotonovs to ship their men and equipmnt around the world.

Canucks do not pay their bills - hence the actual act of piracy on the high seas by the Canucks military two years ago.

The civilian ship they hired to ship their military equipment was not getting paid. They refused to come into Canuck waters until they were paid. If that ship had gone down, fully one third of the Canucks armoured capability would be on the bottom of the ocean.

Canucks sent out a cutter - one of the few in service and boarded the ship - forced it to port.

Poor leadership - most untested in anything other than counting paper clips reside in what the Canuck military man call the Puzzle Palace in Ottawa. Top heavy - more generals per dapita than the vast majority of militaries in the world and too concerned with political correctness.

Canuck military have unfortunately become irrelevant.

Now the Canuck government has rubbed Bush's nose with refusing BMD just a short time before they stand a very good chance of having R-CALF succeed with the injunction.

Bush will not really give a damn about Canucks. Love him or hate him, he does not like those who cannot make a decision and survive on double talk. I can not see him going to bat for the Canucks if the injunction goes through. I would not blame him. Certainkly his closest advisors - people he trusts and listens to will consider Canucks irrelevant - and they will inform him and he will listen.

Canucks are led by a man called Mr. Dithers. Love that name. It also is becoming quite representative of the Canuck population as a whole.

Canuck members of parliament have called Bush names, have called the American people names (Bastards wasn't it?) and have shunned the American people when Canucks were needed most.

They not only refused to offer support - they refused the request of a field operating hospital in Iraq. Canucks just could not take the heat.

Yet the Canuck government allows one of the most feared terrorist groups in the world - the Tamil Tigers - to knowingly and openly operate freely in Canuck land. Both Mr. Dithers and Layton have actually appeared at fund raisers for the Tigers!

During the Somalian episode, the leader of the Somali outlawed government kept his wife in Montreal. She lived there in government assistance and had her children there to assure Canadian citizenship. She would go to Somalia - get pregnant and return to Canuck land.

Layton, the Canuck NDP leader is happy to not be involved in the BMD - otherwise Canada would possibly be a target - his words not mine. No one will target Canada - there are 39,000 court ordered deportees in Canada - and they are all - yes all - missing. No terrorist is going to attack Canuck land - it is a base for the use of terrorism against the U.S. of A.

Now Canucks side with French, German and Russion governments on world political issues. Go figure.

What happened to the days of old?

They went away when it became necessary for the Canuck Liberals to do anything - anything - to maintain power. Sharon Carstairs - a Liberal Senator has been quoted as saying - "It is all part of the Liberal social re-engineering program". Sadly it appears to be working.

Chretien and his son-in-law Paul Demarais have a direct link - yes a direct link to Iraq oil. Read this in that Canuck magazine - The Westerner - once known as the Alberta Report. Paul is a majority shareholder in a French company that has extensive holdings in Iraq.

All of the above information can be found by simply searching the CSIS site, contacting the Montreal Gazette, the Toronto Star and yes, your Canuck member of parliament and asking for the details. Surely that should be interesting to the average Canuck - but the media in eastern Canada does not report on it. I wonder why?

All in all it amounts to Canucks being irrelevant on the world scene.

Suspect this will bring on a few comments.

Rant off.

BC
 

Murgen

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Broke Cowboy, I agree with you totally, but I still believe in negotiation when it comes to powers like Korea etc. Terrorists should be treated the way you suggested, I agree.

I guess what I'm saying is I also believe in the US and Canada working together as good cop, bad cop. OT, did you ever play this game, or is it a myth?
 

Murgen

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Murgen--What do you think about the allegations coming out against Canada's UN rep- Louise Frechette? Looks like she was tied up to her neck in the oil for food scandal and led the coverup.....It will be interesting to see what countries made what-- so far all the countries that voted against supporting the US in the Iraq war had their hands in the till-- could that have been a factor in their stance?.....

Not sure what I believe OT, not really well read on the subject. But I have an opinion on how these types of things usual happen, and there will be some private companies that come out too. Some of those being from the US also I would expect.

But saying a Canadian had there hand in the till does not necessarily mean that Canada had their hand in the till. I'm sure there's dishonest people working at the UN from all countries, thery're politicians.
 

Murgen

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Sorry for posting 3 in a row.

Broke Cowboy, do some research on the JTF2, if you haven't already. They are in Irag and Afghanistan. I think by now we have learned that brute force through man numbers is not always the best way to fight these types of wars. And I know for a fact that Canada is putting more money into these more information/elite forces than the same money would benefit them through adding men and equipment.
 

Broke Cowboy

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Incoming missile - headded for U.S. of A.

NORAD duty commander: Call up the Canucks and ask them if we can shoot it down.

Ring, ring, ring:

(Recording) "You have reached the Canuck Military Duty Desk in Ottawa. For service in French please press one. For service in English please press two."

Duty commander presses two:

(Recording) "You have the following 12 choices"

Please press one to contact the Duty officer.

Please press two to contact .......

(NORAD guy presses 1 as missile inbound at approximately 4500 knots)

(Recording) "You have reached the Ottawa after hours duty officer. I am either away from my deask or on another line. Please leave a message after the tone, or call back during regular working hours from Monday to Friday from 0800 to 1600 hours"

NORAD Duty Officer - FIRE at will!

Does anyone actually believe the U.S. of A. will request permission from a man called Mr. Dithers?

Highly unlikely.

BC
 
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Murgen said:
Murgen--What do you think about the allegations coming out against Canada's UN rep- Louise Frechette? Looks like she was tied up to her neck in the oil for food scandal and led the coverup.....It will be interesting to see what countries made what-- so far all the countries that voted against supporting the US in the Iraq war had their hands in the till-- could that have been a factor in their stance?.....

Not sure what I believe OT, not really well read on the subject. But I have an opinion on how these types of things usual happen, and there will be some private companies that come out too. Some of those being from the US also I would expect.

Yeah- It wouldn't surprise me that some US companies end up in there too-- Last I'd heard was they were really looking at a company that Chretiens daughter was involved in-- along with Chiraq.... Just hearing about this UN rep today on the news.... Investigators are claiming that auditors found the scandal some time ago and she had them cover it up.......
 

Murgen

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Maybe we better set up our own missile defense. Anybody got a super huge rubber band with a sharpened soft wood tree. Would we have to pay a tariff on that if it crosses into the US?
 
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This should be over on the political page. Has nothing to do with the bull session.
 

Broke Cowboy

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Ah yes - the mysterious "Guest".

Well, it started here - maybe by accident. You register, and then we can talk. Otherwise, like I say - it is here now and you can simply "pass on by" if it is offensive.

Or you can get involved. Choice is yours.

Thanks for the tip. I will take it under consideration.

BC
 

Murgen

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Sorry, got started and needed you to set us straight, thanks Guest.
 

Bro

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Canuck military have unfortunately become irrelevant.

Our pre-war military has always been irrelevant. Prior to the first world war, our professional army was quite small. But by the end of the war, we had over 64000 KIA out of a population of under 8000000 people (almost 1% of our total population). The quality of the volunteers was good, and with the Australians, the Canadians became the Allies shock troops. Massive demobilization followed, and prior to the second world war, we had a miniscule professional military again. Same thing happened, but not quite a high percentage died. The quality of the people back then were probably better, as they all had to work for a living in those days, and were more selfless, and there were more militias - the same can be said about most countries today though. I agree that we should spend alot more money on the military, but only to a point. Get some decent subs, get some state of the art equipment, double the number of special forces, airborne, etc., get some better intelligence systems, cut back on the generals and beaurocrats. But I don't see Canada needing a big professional military - we could never afford it- but we should have enough well equiped professional forces to protect our souvernty. In times of war, volunteers will fill the ranks. I guess after each war, the public in general wanted to wash their hands of it and the government just viewed that as an excuse from the 60's onwards to make the decisions that they made. I agree, peacekeeping without any bite will not win any respect from the world (except in the jetset elitist's eyes). I think that the average guy on the street is sure glad we are spending more now.

I think that they screwed up on this missle defence thing, it could help with our hi-tech industries in Canada. But the end result will be the same, the missles would still be shot down over us.
 

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