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Rightwingernuts getting Whackier

Whitewing

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Whitewing said:
OldSweetCheeks said:
After years of talking with homosexuals

:???: :???: :???:

When you are working in law enforcement/justice system you meet with/talk to/interact with all types daily... And after a while I realized the negative stereotypes I had developed in my younger years about many types of folks that were "different" were not as valid as I had perceived before...

You should be so tolerant of the average tea party follower.
 

Mike

Well-known member
So............OT feels guilty about stereotypically harassing others when he was young so he totally flip-flop his beliefs and gives his morals to the devil?

Like we've said all along. His stance changes with the wind.

:roll: :roll:
 

Steve

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Steve said:
so if it is a choice..

we either support the ideals of a TEA party candidate or those of the "establishment"

the establishment brought US GW,.. Karl Rove,.. John McCain.. and still pushes a moderate liberal view... IE the status quo.

you know the ones who supported immigration,.. wants the platform to move to the left.. ect..



is that the progressive republican you want?

Nope- Neither... That's the reason I believe we should go back to the Republican type of Ike...

as it sits now... the establishment wants to pick the candidates.. or stick with the old already there guys?

how will we ever get back to the types like IKE if we don't push for new candidates?
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
iwannabeacowboy said:
Just so I don't forget, where in the Bible are the Bible thumpers getting a reason to ban mixed race marriages?

And please show me evidence that abortion clinics have been held to the same health standards and scrutiny as other general surgical facilities. Are you feeling sure of yourself on this? You want to take a real man's bet or just shut up and slither away like normal? I'll bet that I can prove they lack oversight and have led to unsanitary practices and to the death of multiple women and children.



If your going to say it, prove it, or admit to being wrong.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
iwannabeacowboy said:
iwannabeacowboy said:
Just so I don't forget, where in the Bible are the Bible thumpers getting a reason to ban mixed race marriages?

And please show me evidence that abortion clinics have been held to the same health standards and scrutiny as other general surgical facilities. Are you feeling sure of yourself on this? You want to take a real man's bet or just shut up and slither away like normal? I'll bet that I can prove they lack oversight and have led to unsanitary practices and to the death of multiple women and children.



If your going to say it, prove it, or admit to being wrong.

Here is a good article on the Bible verses and how folks who opposed mixed marriages used them...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/marracbib.htm

As shown in the map- the area of the country where the most conservative evangelical sects prevail (mainly the deep south) were the last states to rescind the anti-miscegenation laws (and then only because of the Supreme Court ruling)... It was also mostly in these states that we have a history of interracial families being banned from church membership..

U.S States, by the date of repeal of anti-miscegenation laws:
grey- No laws passed
green- Before 1887
yellow- 1948 to 1967
red- 12 June 1967
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Arkansas, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, South Carolina and Alabama legalized interracial marriage for some years during the Reconstruction period. Anti-miscegenation laws rested unenforced, were overturned by courts or repealed by the state government (in Arkansas[15] and Louisiana[16]). However, after conservative white Democrats took power in the South during Redemption, anti-miscegenation laws were once more enforced, and in addition Jim Crow laws were enacted in the South which also enforced other forms of racial segregation.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws_in_the_United_States
 

iwannabeacowboy

Well-known member
Mike said:
So.........more than 4/5's of the country did not allow interracial marriages in 1966. :roll:


:lol: When was our mulatto precedent's parents married?




And OT

Thanks for again verifying that you were wrong. When you find a verse that forbids interracial marriage let me know. When read in its entirety, it is very obvious that any warning of marriage is not in regards to race but in regards to religious views of the participants. There is warning about marrying someone that worships humanly contrived gods, or in the new testament about a Christian marrying a non-Christian. Race has never entered the equation.
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
Someday maybe you and multi-ID stalker will learn that when you think for yourself you use the word I to express your beliefs -- rather than the cult followers who only know how to discuss issues in a we, they, them, us mentality... :wink: :(

Oldtimer, somewhere along the line you have conjured up the misconceived notion that you are the only person on this forum who "can think for themself." You are wrong. In fact, you are the one most likely to "follow the crowd," literally and Liberally speaking. You think in these modern times, the rules have changed. It is because of the crowd followers like yourself that the rules are changing. God's Holy Word, the Bible, is just as spot on today as it was centuries ago. Wrong was wrong then, and wrong is wrong now. Don't try to make new rules saying that times have changed enough in this day and age, that wrong is no longer wrong and can be legislated to now be right (i.e. gay marriage and abortion which is the killing of innocent babies). You are no hero because you are supposedly an Independent. In fact, you are a loose cannon because you can't stay on course. You and your kind that swing wildly from side to side are the ones who will eventually tip over the ship.

Soap- that is where you apparently don't understand the direction I come from... I am not a fan of gay marriage , nor of abortion- but unlike the "holier than thou's" I do not believe it is up to me to be telling folks how to live their lives...

After years of talking with homosexuals I'm convinced that homosexuality is not a chosen life- that it is a biological abnormality that these folks can't change... Just like God has allowed babies to be born with Down's syndrome- he has allowed some to have homosexual tendencies (which does manifest itself more by environment)....Its a condition that has been around forever... Just like folks are becoming more tolerant of persons with Downs syndrome and DD- so are they of homosexuality...

As far as gay marriage- I believe these folks are being discriminated against by the government which makes it a constitutional issue- which I am a proponent on because either we follow our constitution or its worthless... Which gives the government two choices-- do away with the thousand laws that give married individuals an advantage- or recognize gay unions... Do we follow our Constitution or do we just throw it out the window for folks that are "different".... :???: Remember- it wasn't long ago we had laws forbidding mixed races (blacks, Asians, Native Americans, Filipinos, even Hawaiians in some states) to marry- and when the courts overruled that we had some bible thumpers and white supremacists screaming it would be the end of the country... Didn't happen tho..

Same with abortion... I dislike the practice of abortion- but also realize it has been around longer than recorded history... I would not want anyone in my family having an abortion-BUT would respect it as their personal choice.. I believe it is a decision that should be made between the individual, their Doctor, and their God... And I believe by keeping it legal we prevent the backalley and Mexican abortions that killed and maimed so many women in the past... Just making it illegal didn't stop it before... Hopefully someday we will realize that we can't solve every problem in this country just by passing a law making a person a criminal...

Years ago I was probably more right wing then you... And I pretty much followed in the goosestep of the right wing... But over the years of working with people- and realizing that not all these folks that are "different" are to be feared or hated I have learned to be much more tolerant...

And over the years I came to realize you can't go backwards... We will never see the 1960's again- no more "Ozzie and Harriet" no more "Leave it to Beaver" world... With all the technological advances and globalization we need to move forward... To progress..
Ike realized this too- one of the reasons I put him as the best overall President during my lifetime...

But Ike had to battle the old guard and the obstructionist radical rightwing too in order to keep the country moving forward...

As the 1954 congressional elections approached, and it became evident that the Republicans were in danger of losing their thin majority in both houses, Eisenhower was among those blaming the Old Guard for the losses, and took up the charge to stop suspected efforts by the right wing to take control of the GOP. Ike then articulated his position as a moderate, progressive Republican: "I have just one purpose ... and that is to build up a strong progressive Republican Party in this country. If the right wing wants a fight, they are going to get it ... before I end up, either this Republican Party will reflect progressivism or I won't be with them anymore."

And like Ike- I believe the Old Guard/radical right (who now call themselves Tea Partiers) will prevent the Republican Party the ability to ever win a national election or put someone in the White House if they keep up with their obstructionism...

You might think you were "more right wing than me" at one time, but this speculation on your part is highly doubtful. I attended my last two years of high school in Gordon, and was a member of the graduating class of 1970. Sometime during those two years, a little for-fun test was handed out to all the high school kids and to the teachers, to determine if the test-taker was Conservative or Liberal in their thinking. There were 20 questions on this test, with questions regarding our stand on drinking, drugs, pre-marital sex, abortion, and other issues of the day (I am quite sure anything of a homosexual nature was not even mentioned, because it was a non-issue at that time). With each question, you were to rate your "feelings" for or against, with possible answers being 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5, depending on how strong these feeling were. If you were strongly conservative, you gave a "5" answer on each question. If you were strongly liberal, you gave a "1" for each answer. Highest possible conservative score was 100, and if you were completely liberal, your score was still 20. I answered a "5" to each question except for this one: "Hard work is the key to success." I gave that one a "3". If you have read any of my daily journal posts, you might determine that I worked fairly hard as a youngster. Even at that time, I had decided that "working hard" didn't always take the place of "working smart." Also I figured that sometimes a little luck could make up for a lot of hard work. Hence, my answer of only a "3" on that particular question. When the results were tabulated, my score of 98 blew everyone else out of the water, and I was proclaimed "most conservative" person in high school, male or female, student or teacher.

My dad was a strong Republican, and my mother's dad was an equally strong Democrat. The fur would sometimes fly at family gatherings, so I have been exposed to politics for all of my life. One time, my mother's dad was playing cards with my two sisters and me. I would have been about 10, my sister Sandra (who died from ovarian cancer at 38 ) was 7, and Sybil was about 4 years old. As could happen, somehow I offended Sybil. She threw in her cards and loudly proclaimed to me, "You darned dirty Democrat." Grandpa was not too impressed. :)

Neither bragging or complaining but just stating the facts, Oldtimer, I will tell you that I've been a tee-totaller all my life. Even though I have never drank any beer or other liquor, I have probably bar-hopped as much as any tee-totaller around, as country music playing in night clubs has always drawn me like a lightbulb draws moths. Yes, there are those who claim I miss out on a lot of fun because of not partaking, but I have never seen it that way. My decisions may sometimes be influenced by drowsiness but never from drunkenness. Can you say the same?

Oldtimer, do you still think you were at one time more right-wing than me?
 

Soapweed

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
Someday maybe you and multi-ID stalker will learn that when you think for yourself you use the word I to express your beliefs -- rather than the cult followers who only know how to discuss issues in a we, they, them, us mentality... :wink: :(

Oldtimer, somewhere along the line you have conjured up the misconceived notion that you are the only person on this forum who "can think for themself." You are wrong. In fact, you are the one most likely to "follow the crowd," literally and Liberally speaking. You think in these modern times, the rules have changed. It is because of the crowd followers like yourself that the rules are changing. God's Holy Word, the Bible, is just as spot on today as it was centuries ago. Wrong was wrong then, and wrong is wrong now. Don't try to make new rules saying that times have changed enough in this day and age, that wrong is no longer wrong and can be legislated to now be right (i.e. gay marriage and abortion which is the killing of innocent babies). You are no hero because you are supposedly an Independent. In fact, you are a loose cannon because you can't stay on course. You and your kind that swing wildly from side to side are the ones who will eventually tip over the ship.

Soap- that is where you apparently don't understand the direction I come from... I am not a fan of gay marriage , nor of abortion- but unlike the "holier than thou's" I do not believe it is up to me to be telling folks how to live their lives...

After years of talking with homosexuals I'm convinced that homosexuality is not a chosen life- that it is a biological abnormality that these folks can't change... Just like God has allowed babies to be born with Down's syndrome- he has allowed some to have homosexual tendencies (which does manifest itself more by environment)....Its a condition that has been around forever... Just like folks are becoming more tolerant of persons with Downs syndrome and DD- so are they of homosexuality...

As far as gay marriage- I believe these folks are being discriminated against by the government which makes it a constitutional issue- which I am a proponent on because either we follow our constitution or its worthless... Which gives the government two choices-- do away with the thousand laws that give married individuals an advantage- or recognize gay unions... Do we follow our Constitution or do we just throw it out the window for folks that are "different".... :???:
Remember- it wasn't long ago we had laws forbidding mixed races (blacks, Asians, Native Americans, Filipinos, even Hawaiians in some states) to marry- and when the courts overruled that we had some bible thumpers and white supremacists screaming it would be the end of the country... Didn't happen tho..

Same with abortion... I dislike the practice of abortion- but also realize it has been around longer than recorded history... I would not want anyone in my family having an abortion-BUT would respect it as their personal choice.. I believe it is a decision that should be made between the individual, their Doctor, and their God... And I believe by keeping it legal we prevent the backalley and Mexican abortions that killed and maimed so many women in the past... Just making it illegal didn't stop it before... Hopefully someday we will realize that we can't solve every problem in this country just by passing a law making a person a criminal...

Years ago I was probably more right wing then you... And I pretty much followed in the goosestep of the right wing... But over the years of working with people- and realizing that not all these folks that are "different" are to be feared or hated I have learned to be much more tolerant...

And over the years I came to realize you can't go backwards... We will never see the 1960's again- no more "Ozzie and Harriet" no more "Leave it to Beaver" world... With all the technological advances and globalization we need to move forward... To progress..

A year ago I went to a lady's funeral about four hours of travel time away. There we got to visit with many friends and relatives. One lady a little older than me was in attendance, and I asked her where her husband was. She said, "You must be one of the last who has not heard. Fred (not his real name) decided a few months ago that he was gay. We are now divorced, and he is living a different lifestyle." Boy, you could have knocked me over with a feather. Fred was a good guy, and I had gone to their wedding forty some years previous. The couple raised three children, who have all gone on to become successful productive members of society. My next question was, "What do your sons think of this?" She replied, "What do you think they think of this? They are completely appalled." Fred was a manly type of guy, and this was completely out of character. Fred died within a couple more months of a massive heart attack. Had he died earlier, while still married to his wife, I am sure his family would have had more peace of mind.

The point of this rambling is this. Fred was as straight as they come for many years. He was not born "different." He got into experimentation, and evidently thought he was "missing out." The experimentation ended up ruining his life, and gave him a premature death.

Yes, there are probably those who are born "different," and for them we should show love, compassion, and tolerance. I have friends who are this way, and they are good friends. Yes, they should have equal opportunity under the law for partnership rights upon death. So should other legal partners. A "marriage" in the strictest sense of the word should be reserved for a union between a man and a woman. Other legal arrangements should be available. They could be called civil unions, partnerships, or whatever, but they should have the same financial rights as marriages.

Homosexuality has always been around, and will always be around. "Don't ask, don't tell" was a good policy. People don't need to divulge their bedroom exploits, as it is really no one else's business anyway. As far as making heroes out of homosexual people, what is the point? Obama made a big production out of calling the NBA player who came out of the closet. Why was this necessary? Yes, we need to love and accept those who are different than us, but we don't need to condone and glorify it. Conservatives usually follow the standard of live and let live, as long as it doesn't bother anyone else. Liberals seem to push the envelope and do their best to promote deviant behavior.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer said:
Soapweed said:
Oldtimer, somewhere along the line you have conjured up the misconceived notion that you are the only person on this forum who "can think for themself." You are wrong. In fact, you are the one most likely to "follow the crowd," literally and Liberally speaking. You think in these modern times, the rules have changed. It is because of the crowd followers like yourself that the rules are changing. God's Holy Word, the Bible, is just as spot on today as it was centuries ago. Wrong was wrong then, and wrong is wrong now. Don't try to make new rules saying that times have changed enough in this day and age, that wrong is no longer wrong and can be legislated to now be right (i.e. gay marriage and abortion which is the killing of innocent babies). You are no hero because you are supposedly an Independent. In fact, you are a loose cannon because you can't stay on course. You and your kind that swing wildly from side to side are the ones who will eventually tip over the ship.

Soap- that is where you apparently don't understand the direction I come from... I am not a fan of gay marriage , nor of abortion- but unlike the "holier than thou's" I do not believe it is up to me to be telling folks how to live their lives...

After years of talking with homosexuals I'm convinced that homosexuality is not a chosen life- that it is a biological abnormality that these folks can't change... Just like God has allowed babies to be born with Down's syndrome- he has allowed some to have homosexual tendencies (which does manifest itself more by environment)....Its a condition that has been around forever... Just like folks are becoming more tolerant of persons with Downs syndrome and DD- so are they of homosexuality...

As far as gay marriage- I believe these folks are being discriminated against by the government which makes it a constitutional issue- which I am a proponent on because either we follow our constitution or its worthless... Which gives the government two choices-- do away with the thousand laws that give married individuals an advantage- or recognize gay unions... Do we follow our Constitution or do we just throw it out the window for folks that are "different".... :???:
Remember- it wasn't long ago we had laws forbidding mixed races (blacks, Asians, Native Americans, Filipinos, even Hawaiians in some states) to marry- and when the courts overruled that we had some bible thumpers and white supremacists screaming it would be the end of the country... Didn't happen tho..

Same with abortion... I dislike the practice of abortion- but also realize it has been around longer than recorded history... I would not want anyone in my family having an abortion-BUT would respect it as their personal choice.. I believe it is a decision that should be made between the individual, their Doctor, and their God... And I believe by keeping it legal we prevent the backalley and Mexican abortions that killed and maimed so many women in the past... Just making it illegal didn't stop it before... Hopefully someday we will realize that we can't solve every problem in this country just by passing a law making a person a criminal...

Years ago I was probably more right wing then you... And I pretty much followed in the goosestep of the right wing... But over the years of working with people- and realizing that not all these folks that are "different" are to be feared or hated I have learned to be much more tolerant...

And over the years I came to realize you can't go backwards... We will never see the 1960's again- no more "Ozzie and Harriet" no more "Leave it to Beaver" world... With all the technological advances and globalization we need to move forward... To progress..

A year ago I went to a lady's funeral about four hours of travel time away. There we got to visit with many friends and relatives. One lady a little older than me was in attendance, and I asked her where her husband was. She said, "You must be one of the last who has not heard. Fred (not his real name) decided a few months ago that he was gay. We are now divorced, and he is living a different lifestyle." Boy, you could have knocked me over with a feather. Fred was a good guy, and I had gone to their wedding forty some years previous. The couple raised three children, who have all gone on to become successful productive members of society. My next question was, "What do your sons think of this?" She replied, "What do you think they think of this? They are completely appalled." Fred was a manly type of guy, and this was completely out of character. Fred died within a couple more months of a massive heart attack. Had he died earlier, while still married to his wife, I am sure his family would have had more peace of mind.

The point of this rambling is this. Fred was as straight as they come for many years. He was not born "different." He got into experimentation, and evidently thought he was "missing out." The experimentation ended up ruining his life, and gave him a premature death.

Yes, there are probably those who are born "different," and for them we should show love, compassion, and tolerance. I have friends who are this way, and they are good friends. Yes, they should have equal opportunity under the law for partnership rights upon death. So should other legal partners. A "marriage" in the strictest sense of the word should be reserved for a union between a man and a woman. Other legal arrangements should be available. They could be called civil unions, partnerships, or whatever, but they should have the same financial rights as marriages.

Homosexuality has always been around, and will always be around. "Don't ask, don't tell" was a good policy. People don't need to divulge their bedroom exploits, as it is really no one else's business anyway. As far as making heroes out of homosexual people, what is the point? Obama made a big production out of calling the NBA player who came out of the closet. Why was this necessary? Yes, we need to love and accept those who are different than us, but we don't need to condone and glorify it. Conservatives usually follow the standard of live and let live, as long as it doesn't bother anyone else. Liberals seem to push the envelope and do their best to promote deviant behavior.

Yep and I pretty much agree- IF government hadn't stuck their nose into it and given over a 1000 benefits to folks if they have a heterosexual partner and call themselves a couple/union/married---BUT none to those that have a homosexual partner and call themselves a couple/union/married ... That was when the unconstitutional discrimination in favor of a certain class of people and against another certain class of people began...
And if you truly believe in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence as you proclaim-- you have to recognize that all men are created equal as far as the law is concerned:

The constitutional case for marriage equality begins with the sweeping and universal text of the Fourteenth Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause, which guarantees “equal protection of the laws” to “any person.” Drafted in 1866 and ratified in 1868, the Clause wrote into the Constitution the ideal of equality first laid out in the Declaration of Independence. The text protects all persons from arbitrary and invidious class-based discrimination, whether black or white, man or woman, gay or straight, native-born or immigrant. It gives to all persons, as individuals, the guarantee of the equal protection of the laws.

The alternative to recognizing gay unions under the law is for the federal government and states to rescind the over 1000 laws providing benefits/exemptions for heterosexual couples....

As far as the Christianity/Bible overriding the Constitution and Declaration of Independence-- I have to side with Teddy-Jefferson and all the justices in the last 200+ years that have said church and state should be separate- and that we- as a government- should recognize NO Church over another....



"Discrimination against the holder of one faith means retaliatory discrimination against men of other faiths. The inevitable result of entering upon such a practise would be an abandonment of our real freedom of conscience and a reversion to the dreadful conditions of religious dissensions which in so many lands have proved fatal to true liberty, to true religion, and to all advance in civilization."

"To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against the liberty of conscience, which is one of the foundations of American life." - Roosevelt's letter on religious liberty.
 

Brad S

Well-known member
OT, define religion in a manner that includes all religions but excludes man caused global warming converts.

Btw, from this uneducated ... Whatever other slurs you are heaping on constitutionalists ( the best one is when you call constitutionalists, "anarchists"), teddy Roosevelt advocated many illegal expansions of government.
 

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