Rod: "1) You and SH appear to feel that demand is an on/off switch. Tell me MWJ, if beef rises 10 cents/lb how much does this affect demand? Safeway is going to move X thousands of lbs of beef each week, and they know it from week to week. If they have to pay more for it, they simply raise the price at the meat counter. Once the price is raised too high, and other proteins are more attractive to consumers, their demand will drop. Tell me MWJ, do you really believe that Safeway dictates prices to the packers?"
Appear to feel that demand is an on/off switch? Where the hell did that come from?
Demand is a function of both quantity and price. In order to measure demand, you have to measure both quantity and price. Rising demand is selling the same amount of beef at a higher price not selling a reduced supply of beef at a slightly higher price.
Retailers do not have the luxury of just raising the price of beef at the meat counter. IF IT DOESN'T SELL, IT'S DISCARDED. Instead, if beef movement is slowing, the only way retailers can get beef to move off the shelf before it spoils is to offer beef at featured prices. If the price they receive for beef is lowered, the price they pay the packer is lowered. It's never been any different. Damn right they dictate price to the packer. They do it every week.
You really don't have a clue do you?
Rod: "2) Another question for you MWJ. How much beef makes it across the border on a daily basis? Can you compare that to our own slaughter capacity up north? We have two major packers with a combined slaughter capacity ten TIMES all the other others combined. Do you really believe that if one of those two major packers have their bids removed from the system for a day that it won't affect prices? Really? And if you do, explain how when JGL stops bidding at Saskatoon, the prices drop 5 cents? Please explain that to me."
Why are you asking MWJ all these questions instead of providing some answers yourself? Just like always you want someone else to do your research for you.
You just got done saying Canadian producers had the option of shipping South so why are you still trying to convince everyone that Canadian producers only have 2 bidding options???
Rod: "5) a) Feedlot doesn't know when those animals that the packer owns are going to hit market, so he's now got an unknown as to when he wants to finish his own fats. He finishes at the wrong time, he loses money. He needs to hedge his own risk, so he drops his bids on weaned and backgrounded cattle. Producer suffers."
What a crock!
You honestly believe feeders form their buying decisions around when they believe packer fed cattle will finish?? You're crazy!
You just got done admitting that Canadian producers ship cattle south. So if they ship cattle South and have those marketing options, what the hell does packer fed cattle have to do with anything?
Rod: "5) b) Producer with fats probably doesn't have a clue that the Packer has several thousand head on feed. Loses money while waiting for grids to rebound after the packer takes care of his own stock."
The fact that Canadian producers can ship cattle south and have the same marketing options as US producers blows this stupid baseless conspiracy theory right out of the water.
Rod: "So what we end up with is a packer with fore knowledge of the market that others do not. It ends up hurting producers. I wouldn't have a problem with packer owned cattle IF THEY WERE REQUIRED TO REPORT HOW MANY THEY HAD ON FEED AND WHEN THEY EXPECTED THEM TO SHIP. Just like the feedlots are required to do. Total transparency so that informed producers can make adequate marketing decisions. If they don't report them, and play fair, then I say take away the privelege of allowing them ownership."
Packer owned cattle are totally irrelevant.
Rod, let's just play your conspiracy game for a minute and assume that Canadian producers didn't have the US plants as a marketing option.
Tell me, what percent of the Canadian fed cattle are packer owned?
Let's hear it.............
Rod: "Really, I'm surprised that you would be against such a thing SH. Same as you MWJ. There is nothing wrong with transparency in the system so that all can make money. Maybe you guys should sell some of your stock in packing houses and become livestock producers again."
Don't own any stock in packing houses. Another lie.
Rod: "BTW, SH, in response to your idiotic question see my response to MWJ above. Can the idiotic yes/no questions too. This isn't some cheap courtroom TV show."
So your version of an "idiotic question" is a question that you don't want to answer because it will reveal how ignorant you are.
That's why you keep arguing as if Canada doesn't have the same marketing options as the US. You conspiracy theorists simply cannot grasp reality.
~SH~