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Santorum's stone-age view of women?

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Santorum's stone-age view of women

By Stephanie Coontz, Special to CNN
updated 11:15 AM EST, Tue February 14, 2012

(CNN) -- Presidential candidate Rick Santorum is unhappy with last week's compromise over whether Catholic institutions should be required to cover contraception for their employees, arguing that birth control "shouldn't be covered by insurance at all." The issue, Santorum claims, is "economic liberty." But in the past he has made his real objection clear, categorizing contraception as "a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."

Taken together with statements Santorum made in his 2005 book, "It Takes a Family: Conservatism and the Common Good," his opposition to contraception (as well as to abortion, even in the case of rape) seems part and parcel of a deep hostility toward efforts to empower women and enhance their status. He has shown nothing but contempt for what his book called the "radical" feminist "pitch" that "men and women be given an equal opportunity to make it to the top in the workplace." So perhaps it's not surprising that at the time of publication he did not list his wife as a co-author or contributor, although when asked last week about this and other comments on working mothers, he now says his wife wrote that part of the book.


Whichever member of the couple wrote the section on women, it is worth revisiting a couple of its points. Take, for instance, the book's dismissal of programs to help impoverished single mothers improve their job prospects by returning to school: "The notion that college education is a cost-effective way to help poor, low-skill, unmarried mothers with high school diplomas or GEDs move up the economic ladder is just wrong." Or its claim that unnamed "surveys" have shown that educated professional women find it "easier, more 'professionally' gratifying, and certainly more socially affirming, to work outside the home than to give up their careers to take care of their children."

The Santorums' apparent hostility to women's educational and professional advancement is insulting and out of touch with today's world. But it is also odd in light of their purported interest in the welfare of children. It turns out that the most powerful single influence on a child's educational success is not the mother's marital status but her own level of education and her educational aspirations for her children, according to education researcher W. Norton Grubb.

Having more education is one of the biggest predictors of women having careers. But it's also one of the biggest predictors of women (and their husbands) doing more child care, according to a forthcoming paper by Paula England, a New York University sociologist and Research Fellow at the Council on Contemporary Families, and her collaborator, Anjula Srivastava. Educated mothers are much more likely to work outside the home and to return to work within a year after the birth of a child. They also tend to have fewer children than their less educated counterparts. Yet on average they spend more time in direct interaction with their kids than less educated women.

Well educated fathers also spend more time in childcare than less educated dads. But, interestingly, the amount of childcare a man does is more directly influenced by his wife's educational level than his own. On average, having a wife with a college degree raises a man's participation in childcare by 3½ hours per week.

Educated parents find more time to spend with their children by reducing time dedicated to home-based activities that involve little interaction with children. They spend less time on sleep and personal grooming, less time doing housework, and less time watching television than their less educated counterparts, regardless of their employment status. This is hardly evidence that they do not find childcare gratifying.

No single choice about how to organize work and family life is right or possible -- for every family. And every choice has tradeoffs. Sometimes having a mom stay home is a big help. On the other hand, when a mother works outside the home, her husband generally does more child care and has higher parental knowledge about his childrens' friends, routines and needs, cutting across the tendency for fathers to be second-string parents at home.

Every family must make its own, sometimes difficult, decisions about what best fits their particular needs and preferences. We don't need politicians like Rick Santorum or, as he now somewhat unchivalrously claims, his wife -- making those decisions more painful by suggesting that women who choose to pursue careers are worse mothers than those who do not.


This is where I believe, IF Santorum is the candidate, that he loses the ability to be elected-- with women and moderates (that are needed to win the election).... The Dems will target all his past speechs and writings opposing birth control and making women second class citizens....

Palins opposition to birth control and sex education was what sent many Republican and Independent women to Obama and the Dems in the last election....
 

hopalong

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HIs attitude about women is a lot better than your RAPE and PILLAGE one
 

cutterone

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Tell me OT - what is so important to Democrats about contraception and abortion?
Why is necessary that it be provided free of charge?
Where is it in the constitution that it says that the government has the right to make any individual be mandated to purchase any product or service?
Who decided that abortion was legal? Is that in the constitution or was it decided by a court without constitutional authority?

I wonder how you would feel about one of those grandkids you're so proud of would have been aborted?
 

hypocritexposer

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"The Santorums' apparent hostility to women's educational and professional advancement is insulting and out of touch with today's world."


Karen Santorum was an accomplished attorney before she met Santorum and then a neo-natal nurse, of course she doesn't believe in women becoming educated and professional advancement

:lol: :lol:


Coontz is a Radical Feminist
 

Larrry

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ot doesn't have a clue of how to treat women. We have all seen him talk down to women all the time on here. Heck he even makes his wife slave away to buy his donuts and computers.
 

hypocritexposer

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Larrry said:
ot doesn't have a clue of how to treat women. We have all seen him talk down to women all the time on here. Heck he even makes his wife slave away to buy his donuts and computers.


She's a nurse like Santorum's wife, isn't she?

I guess OT doesn't believe in the education or advancement of women either. :lol: :lol:


Santorum said that his mother worked and even earned more than his father — "somewhat unusual in the 1950s and 1960s." He said that section of the book was co-written by his wife, Karen, a former nurse and lawyer who left the workforce to stay home with the couple's seven children.

When his wife quit working, he said, she "felt very much like society and those radical feminists that I was referring to were not affirming her choice.… All I'm saying is … we should affirm both choices.… That's what the book says, and I stand by what I said."
 
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hypocritexposer said:
"The Santorums' apparent hostility to women's educational and professional advancement is insulting and out of touch with today's world."


Karen Santorum was an accomplished attorney before she met Santorum and then a neo-natal nurse, of course she doesn't believe in women becoming educated and professional advancement

:lol: :lol:

And now she's a stay at home mom- homeschooling her brood of kids...Which is her perogative-- but tell me how many folks out their in real life earn enough where the wife does not have to work? And/Or have a husband with a million+ $ income ...

Even in the ranching industry which probably has more stay/work at home wives than most-- many wives have to work to make ends meet for the family... Many I know have to work just as a way for the family to get health insurance...

Cutterone- I don't know why Dems think contraception and abortion should be free....
I don't necessarily think it should be free-- but I also think it should be left available- and the decision on both is best made by the individuals involved, their Doctors, and their God-- not some grey haired old politicians in D.C. ...

The Dems are going to attack Santorum on his previous statements where he said he would support making contraception illegal...And I think it will chase women and moderates across the street.... In 08- many of the Republican women that moved to the Obama camp did so mainly because of their disapproval of Palins stance opposing sex education and access to contraception.....
 

TexasBred

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But in the past he has made his real objection clear, categorizing contraception as "a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."

Taken together with statements Santorum made in his 2005 book, "It Takes a Family: Conservatism and the Common Good," his opposition to contraception (as well as to abortion, even in the case of rape) seems part and parcel of a deep hostility toward efforts to empower women and enhance their status. He has shown nothing but contempt for what his book called the "radical" feminist "pitch" that "men and women be given an equal opportunity to make it to the top in the workplace."

Actually it has nothing to do with contempt for women but everything about his willingness to stand up for his moral religious beliefs. Apparently you're not a Catholic so you don't have a clue and don't want to learn. In short the man not only states his beliefs, he practices them without wavering and without worry of what the likes of you may think. He refuses to settle for being a "Catholic in Name Only" unlike Pelosi and Biden. If protestants and others want to furnish free abortion, birth control and morning after pills then more power to them IF they are willing to give up their 1st Amendment right to say NO.

Only recently negative affects of birth control on the health of a woman was studied at a high level and liberals were wanting to sue the drug companies. Now you're begging for those same drugs for use to negate the consequences of your own inabilities to control your sexual activities. Will insurance companies now also cover other drugs used for "prevention of of other diseases" aids to stop smoking, drinking, etc. etc. etc. which they now refuse to cover or will the continue to simply treat the consequece? If any woman is so worried about the affects of pregnancy on her body she should abstain from sex.
 
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Romney can't use much of the previous speechs/writings because he has to try and keep both the radical right and R base- but the Dems surely will make sure the airwaves are covered with it...

But even Romney's backers and R's have already done some attacking when Santorum insinuated that women were not qualified/trustworthy for some jobs because of their emotions:

RICK SANTORUM: Ah, I don't, you know, look, I, I wanna create every opportunity for women to be able to serve this country and, and they do so in an amazing and wonderful way and they're a great addition to the uh, and have been for a long time, to the uh, to the armed services of our country. Uh. But I, I am, I do have concerns about women in frontline combat. I think that could be a uh, a very compromising situation, where, where, people naturally uh, you know, may do things that may not in the interest of the mission, uh, because of other types of emotions that are involved, and I think that's probably, you know, it already happens of course with, with the camaraderie of, of men in combat, but it's, but it's uh, I think it would be even more unique if, if women were in combat and I think that's probably not in the best interests of men, women, or the mission.


Morning Read: McDonnell Squashes Santorum's "Concerns" Over Women In the Military
By Perry Stein | Tuesday, Feb 14, 2012 | Updated 10:13 AM ESTView Comments (0)
| Email| Print


Presidential-hopeful Rick Santorum said that he has “concerns” about military women serving on the frontline.


But VA Gov. Bob McDonnell—who has a military-serving daughter—knows better than that and defended the nation's military women on Monday.



“I like Rick Santorum a lot. I just disagree with any inference that he might have made that somehow women are not capable of serving in the frontlines and serving in combat positions. And I base that in part on my own daughter’s own experience as a platoon leader in Iraq with 25 men working with her,” McDonnell said on CNN. “She did a great job, was in some risky situations, and yet endured and led and I’m proud of her.”


McDonnell said he made those comments to “make sure people didn’t think that women aren’t capable of doing the job,” according to Politico.

A backer of Romney, McDonnell made similar comments critical of Santorum at the CPAC conference this weekend.

Santorum’s made his initial comments during an interview on CNN with John King last week, when he was asked whether the Pentagon should relax its rules on women taking frontline roles in combat, Politico reports.

And that is mild to what Dems will do if Santorum is the candidate...
 

TexasBred

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Oldtimer said:
Romney can't use much of the previous speechs/writings because he has to try and keep both the radical right and R base- but the Dems surely will make sure the airwaves are covered with it...

But even Romney's backers and R's have already done some attacking when Santorum insinuated that women were not qualified/trustworthy for some jobs because of their emotions:

RICK SANTORUM: Ah, I don't, you know, look, I, I wanna create every opportunity for women to be able to serve this country and, and they do so in an amazing and wonderful way and they're a great addition to the uh, and have been for a long time, to the uh, to the armed services of our country. Uh. But I, I am, I do have concerns about women in frontline combat. I think that could be a uh, a very compromising situation, where, where, people naturally uh, you know, may do things that may not in the interest of the mission, uh, because of other types of emotions that are involved, and I think that's probably, you know, it already happens of course with, with the camaraderie of, of men in combat, but it's, but it's uh, I think it would be even more unique if, if women were in combat and I think that's probably not in the best interests of men, women, or the mission.


Morning Read: McDonnell Squashes Santorum's "Concerns" Over Women In the Military
By Perry Stein | Tuesday, Feb 14, 2012 | Updated 10:13 AM ESTView Comments (0)
| Email| Print


Presidential-hopeful Rick Santorum said that he has “concerns” about military women serving on the frontline.


But VA Gov. Bob McDonnell—who has a military-serving daughter—knows better than that and defended the nation's military women on Monday.



“I like Rick Santorum a lot. I just disagree with any inference that he might have made that somehow women are not capable of serving in the frontlines and serving in combat positions. And I base that in part on my own daughter’s own experience as a platoon leader in Iraq with 25 men working with her,” McDonnell said on CNN. “She did a great job, was in some risky situations, and yet endured and led and I’m proud of her.”


McDonnell said he made those comments to “make sure people didn’t think that women aren’t capable of doing the job,” according to Politico.

A backer of Romney, McDonnell made similar comments critical of Santorum at the CPAC conference this weekend.

Santorum’s made his initial comments during an interview on CNN with John King last week, when he was asked whether the Pentagon should relax its rules on women taking frontline roles in combat, Politico reports.

And that is mild to what Dems will do if Santorum is the candidate...

OT I think he can handle it......now all Barracko has to do is come up with a real birth certificate and proof of citizenship. :lol2:
 

hypocritexposer

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Oldtimer said:
But even Romney's backers and R's have already done some attacking when Santorum insinuated that women were not qualified/trustworthy for some jobs because of their emotions:


He was talking about a man's emotions towards women. Here's a guy sticking up for the safety of women, due to men's emotions and you accuse him of being a woman hater/chauvanist :roll:

RICK SANTORUM: Ah, I don't, you know, look, I, I wanna create every opportunity for women to be able to serve this country and, and they do so in an amazing and wonderful way and they're a great addition to the uh, and have been for a long time, to the uh, to the armed services of our country. Uh. But I, I am, I do have concerns about women in frontline combat. I think that could be a uh, a very compromising situation, where, where, people naturally uh, you know, may do things that may not in the interest of the mission, uh, because of other types of emotions that are involved, and I think that's probably, you know, it already happens of course with, with the camaraderie of, of men in combat, but it's, but it's uh, I think it would be even more unique if, if women were in combat and I think that's probably not in the best interests of men, women, or the mission.


"I can't sleep without drugs," says Kate Weber. "But even then, I often wake up in the middle of the night, crying, my mind racing. And I lie there awake in the dark, reliving the rape, looking for a second chance for it to end with a different outcome, but he always wins."

Rape within the US military has become so widespread that it is estimated that a female soldier in Iraq is more likely to be attacked by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/dec/09/rape-us-military?CMP=twt_gu
 

jigs

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OT, I take offense to your bullsit .....you need to stop talking out of your ass, and look at the real world.

not that it is any of your business, but here is a bit of my story.... we graduated in 1990, and got married in 1991. we had ZERO, NADDA, ZILCH. I watched my grandfather lose the family farm in the 80's and saw what I thought would be my future auctioned off piece by piece, and I had to start from nothing. I worked for a neighbor for 20 years, renting a bit of land here and there, then buying a quarter, building a cow herd, and at the same time raising 4 kids....the ENTIRE TIME we raised those kids, we sacrificed everything to keep my wife at home with the kids. Our friends bought nice vehicles, went on ski trips, went out to eat alot, really lived it up...we did not. we KNEW that by sacrificing the second income and nice lifestyle we could have would benefit the kids in the long run. Now my wife had the occasional part time job, but it never intetfered with the kids, they ALWAYS came first. and now we have built up a sizable farm, a decent cow herd, and have 4 outstanding young kids entering into the world with the thought that family and children trump cash and luxury.
My daughter is in college now, and she constantly thinks that all she wants to do is be an at home mom. her friends laugh at her cause they think a business woman is more important. and in my mind this is the entire trouble with America. we need more women to walk away from careers to nurture and love the children.

now I am not casting stones at anyone who did different than we did, just pointing out that if a fat pile of dung from Montana can sit on his ass while his wife brings home the $$$$ then why can't a woman stay home and raise a family while the man works???
you sir are the biggest ass I ever met, and have spent too much time at the govt cash trough...... I firmly believe that when women were forced into the work place by bad economies, that is where the family structure broke down, and America went to hell.

many times in my young life I had bills stacked up so high it frightened me, but I knew I could work it out, and knew it was the best for my kids in the long run. do not sit there and judge a woman for ending a career, to raise a family.
 
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TexasBred said:
But in the past he has made his real objection clear, categorizing contraception as "a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."

Taken together with statements Santorum made in his 2005 book, "It Takes a Family: Conservatism and the Common Good," his opposition to contraception (as well as to abortion, even in the case of rape) seems part and parcel of a deep hostility toward efforts to empower women and enhance their status. He has shown nothing but contempt for what his book called the "radical" feminist "pitch" that "men and women be given an equal opportunity to make it to the top in the workplace."

Actually it has nothing to do with contempt for women but everything about his willingness to stand up for his moral religious beliefs. Apparently you're not a Catholic so you don't have a clue and don't want to learn. In short the man not only states his beliefs, he practices them without wavering and without worry of what the likes of you may think. He refuses to settle for being a "Catholic in Name Only" unlike Pelosi and Biden. If protestants and others want to furnish free abortion, birth control and morning after pills then more power to them IF they are willing to give up their 1st Amendment right to say NO.

Only recently negative affects of birth control on the health of a woman was studied at a high level and liberals were wanting to sue the drug companies. Now you're begging for those same drugs for use to negate the consequences of your own inabilities to control your sexual activities. Will insurance companies now also cover other drugs used for "prevention of of other diseases" aids to stop smoking, drinking, etc. etc. etc. which they now refuse to cover or will the continue to simply treat the consequece? If any woman is so worried about the affects of pregnancy on her body she should abstain from sex.

Texasbred-- I want rule by a representative form of government- not rule by a Popes decree !!
Santorum can have whatever religious beliefs he wants in his home/family- but his statements saying he would support outlawing contraception takes his religion onto the outside world-- and I'm not a follower of his religion....

Many insurance companies already cover drugs/treatment for smoking, alcoholism, drug addiction, mental health issues now as they have realized the treatment and curing of the addiction is often cheaper than paying for the ongoing diseases that chronically plague such individuals...

Also many insurance companies already pay for all or a portion of some birth control drugs...They use the same fiscal thinking in that paying for contraception is much cheaper than paying for an unwanted pregnancy down the line.... Many of the business's that offer insurance have contraceptive coverage because they would rather have their workers on the job- rather than home on maternity leave...
 

Lonecowboy

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jigs said:
OT, I take offense to your bullsit .....you need to stop talking out of your ass, and look at the real world.

not that it is any of your business, but here is a bit of my story.... we graduated in 1990, and got married in 1991. we had ZERO, NADDA, ZILCH. I watched my grandfather lose the family farm in the 80's and saw what I thought would be my future auctioned off piece by piece, and I had to start from nothing. I worked for a neighbor for 20 years, renting a bit of land here and there, then buying a quarter, building a cow herd, and at the same time raising 4 kids....the ENTIRE TIME we raised those kids, we sacrificed everything to keep my wife at home with the kids. Our friends bought nice vehicles, went on ski trips, went out to eat alot, really lived it up...we did not. we KNEW that by sacrificing the second income and nice lifestyle we could have would benefit the kids in the long run. Now my wife had the occasional part time job, but it never intetfered with the kids, they ALWAYS came first. and now we have built up a sizable farm, a decent cow herd, and have 4 outstanding young kids entering into the world with the thought that family and children trump cash and luxury.
My daughter is in college now, and she constantly thinks that all she wants to do is be an at home mom. her friends laugh at her cause they think a business woman is more important. and in my mind this is the entire trouble with America. we need more women to walk away from careers to nurture and love the children.

now I am not casting stones at anyone who did different than we did, just pointing out that if a fat pile of dung from Montana can sit on his ass while his wife brings home the $$$$ then why can't a woman stay home and raise a family while the man works???
you sir are the biggest ass I ever met, and have spent too much time at the govt cash trough...... I firmly believe that when women were forced into the work place by bad economies, that is where the family structure broke down, and America went to hell.

many times in my young life I had bills stacked up so high it frightened me, but I knew I could work it out, and knew it was the best for my kids in the long run. do not sit there and judge a woman for ending a career, to raise a family.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

we raised ours on straight cowboy wages and my wife stayed home- sure it's tough, it's life, but it can be done - it's called priorities!
 

Sandhusker

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Santorum compared to a man who supports infanticide. The choice is still obvious.
 

Juan

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Great posts all you anti O T's.

Jigs,I can relate to your post but in our family there were more kids------never a dull moment---all during the dirty thirtys,Wouln't have it any different.
 

smalltime

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I take my hat off to you and your wife Jigs.If everyone took care of thier resposibilities as you have the U.S. would be alot better place.I have 5 kids and not to much money but I am rich beyond compare because my wife stayed home and made a home.
 

okfarmer

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I have read nothing past the first post, didn't need to.

OT doesn't like Gingriche's modern attitude toward women as he has been married too many times.

OT doesn't like Santorum's old fashion attitude who has been faithful to his wife and children.

This leads to only one logical conclusion, OT doesn't like men who like women. Its funny that the guy yelling the loudest about keeping the police out of the bedroom probably is the one with handcuffs and chains in his.
 

Soapweed

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okfarmer said:
I have read nothing past the first post, didn't need to.

OT doesn't like Gingriche's modern attitude toward women as he has been married too many times.

OT doesn't like Santorum's old fashion attitude who has been faithful to his wife and children.

This leads to only one logical conclusion, OT doesn't like men who like women. Its funny that the guy yelling the loudest about keeping the police out of the bedroom probably is the one with handcuffs and chains in his.

No matter who the Republicans put up, Oldtimer is going to have a hissy fit. He just flat hates Republicans. :roll: Oldtimer hates George W. Bush. George W. Bush was a Republican. Therefore, Oldtimer hates all Republicans. That is how his mind works. :shock:
 
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Soapweed said:
okfarmer said:
I have read nothing past the first post, didn't need to.

OT doesn't like Gingriche's modern attitude toward women as he has been married too many times.

OT doesn't like Santorum's old fashion attitude who has been faithful to his wife and children.

This leads to only one logical conclusion, OT doesn't like men who like women. Its funny that the guy yelling the loudest about keeping the police out of the bedroom probably is the one with handcuffs and chains in his.

No matter who the Republicans put up, Oldtimer is going to have a hissy fit. He just flat hates Republicans. :roll: Oldtimer hates George W. Bush. George W. Bush was a Republican. Therefore, Oldtimer hates all Republicans. That is how his mind works. :shock:

Wrong again Soap-- the only reason I posted the article is it backs what I've thought all along- Dems will have a hayday attacking either Newt or Santorum....
The only R candidate that I believe stands a chance of getting the moderate and Independents votes needed to win a general election and defeating Obama is Romney- altho at this time I don't see myself voting for him ...

The only R I could vote for would be Ron Paul but doubt he will be the candidate (unless he runs as an Independent)... Which leaves me with Gary Johnson hopefully becoming the Libertarian candidate - as both Paul and Johnson are about the only two candidates running that think most the social issues and how individuals and families should live should be left to the individuals and IF any of those issues need to be controlled by statutes it should be left to the states...
 
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